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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Advanced Tactics Series >> Mods and Scenarios >> WaW Revised Version P Beta Now Available

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WaW Revised Version P Beta Now Available - 6/27/2009 3:25:14 AM

explorer2

Posts: 465
Joined: 11/30/2007
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Version P Changes
(no version O)

More accurate Pacific map
Northern Blitz separated from Western Blitz
�.. April 1940 GE able to attack Norway & Denmark separately from France, BeNeLux. Western Blitz now in May 1940.
GE must double garrison of SU when they conquer all SU up to Kazan (inclusive)
West loses game if it does not occupy Paris by 36 turns after USA enters war (Pacific Blitz)
Monthly manpower gains reduced 15-20% for all regimes except China
SU RRs in winter have limited movement
SU has 25% attack bonus during winter turns

AI Changes
If GE is human and West is AI, victory conditions have changed:
�..In addition to conquering Axis Europa, GE must also conquer London, Birmingham, & Manchester
If West is AI, Canadian & USA production moved to UK & Pacific
If West is AI, GE & JA production will begin decreasing starting one year after USA enters war.
- GE & JA production will never go below 40% of maximum.
Lots of minor �helps� to the AI to make it much more competetive (I hope)

Post #: 1

RE: WaW Revised Version P Beta Now Available - 6/27/2009 3:35:31 AM

explorer2

Posts: 465
Joined: 11/30/2007
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Notes on Version P changes-

AI: Those of you who play vs. AI I think will be in for a pleasant surprise with version P in that it should be noticeably more challenging than previous versions.
1. Moving Canadian and USA production to UK if West is AI should give AI a much better chance against GE.
2. Lowering manpower and (later in game) production ability of human vs. AI players should create a greater need for speed in conquering.
3. SU winter roads and winter attack bonus I hope will make conquering SU in 1st season of Blitz more difficult.

West loses if doesn't conquer Paris by USA enter war + 36 turns (which will oftentimes be December 1944)
Here I am following eminent WWII historian John Keegan's thesis that had Allies not been successful by "fall" of 1944, Churchill would have been kicked out of office and Roosevelt wouldn't have been re-elected, and the new governments would have asked for peace. With the West capitulating, Axis would be re-invogorated, Soviets alone, and would have folded shortly thereafter.

You never know what really would have happened, but by adding this element, West can no longer sit back and focus all production on getting the highest research levels without doing significant fighting. Should make it more exciting!

(in reply to explorer2)

Post #: 2

RE: WaW Revised Version P Beta Now Available - 6/28/2009 11:46:41 PM

bwheatley

Posts: 3650
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downloading now

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Post #: 3

RE: WaW Revised Version P Beta Now Available - 6/29/2009 2:36:36 AM

ghoward

Posts: 147
Joined: 11/9/2007
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The AI Brits have carrier air III and fighter II, the AI french have flak II. Can they build this stuff? This may make a more interesting AI game, but it is no longer WWII, This is a Harry Turtledove alternate history game. I dont think it is what you started out to do. Are you sure about this?

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Post #: 4

RE: WaW Revised Version P Beta Now Available - 6/29/2009 2:54:50 AM

bwheatley

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It's WWII vs the AI where you have to do some massaging in order to have fun i'd imagine

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Post #: 5

RE: WaW Revised Version P Beta Now Available - 6/29/2009 4:06:23 AM

explorer2

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Joined: 11/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barerabbit

The AI Brits have carrier air III and fighter II, the AI french have flak II. Can they build this stuff? This may make a more interesting AI game, but it is no longer WWII, This is a Harry Turtledove alternate history game. I dont think it is what you started out to do. Are you sure about this?

This was a difficult design decision. I had so many responses about how the AI wasn't significantly challenging. I've done all I can to make the AI "smarter" but there's not much I can do on that. So my response has been to make it "stronger" AT's AI simply doesn't have the oomph to understand long term goals or to project strength over distances or water. WaW has all this, as well as multiple fronts. Though certainly I am giving the AI a leg up in terms of technology, and sometimes also giving them extra units, I believe the result will be that it plays more "historically" meaning most importantly that human GE can't get a victory in SU and UK by end of 1942.

I have done very little so far to strengthen GE AI, since it already has the least difficulties. AI is best at single fronts on land, and GE situation is pretty close to that. That being said, I gave even it a few extra starting techs and a tech bonus.

In answer to can they build this stuff: sometimes yes, sometimes no, depending on the situation. I've made it now so AI cannot build carriers at all, no matter what regime. This came after I had already given it Carrier III tech. Ishould go back and delete that from AI.
You can't assume the AI has the tech just because they have a unit with that tech, but sometimes I have given them extra techs. I did not put AI "helps" in the Briefing because that would make the game again far more predictable and far easier.

To be honest, I don't consider this design strategy to be cheating on the side of the AI. WaW is simply too complex for the AI, even given that it can't use carriers and paratroopers. Some examples of AI conduct in WaW:
1. It consistently does amphibious invasions without the ability to create a port, capture a port, and without brining any kind of HQ or engineer. Of course, in 2 turns these units are totally out of supply and die quite easily. How does AI as JA or GE stand a chance this way?
2. Another example, AI as West typically sends less than 10% of production from USA to UK or Pacific, making USA production of no help in the game. How can West stand a chance this way?
3. I've seen several games where West as AI quickly transfers units out of Maginot line. a) this is of course not closely historical and b) with the new condition that abandoning the Maginot Line causes GE to get Western Blitz card, GE gets to do the Blitz usually in October 1939 this way.
4. Still another example, I saw a game where AI gave 100% of all of Gorki's production each turn to making Carriers! And it can't even use them!

I could give many many other examples. Point being, the AI, left on its own, will be grossly not historical and IMHO not very competetive. So I'm hoping my "helps" make it both more comepetetive and, from a big picture standpoint, actually more historical than if left on its own.

Hopefully these changes will make playing the AI more challenging and more enjoyable, but yes, certainly not as historical.

If you want to play a version prior to most of these AI helps, use version N, though it still had some helps.

I'd love for you to give the AI in P a go and tell me what your experience was like.

If you enjoy "beating up" on the AI though, it would be better to use one of the earlier versions like K as I recall, before I turned my eyes to the AI at all. I'd be happy to send that to you if you like.

< Message edited by explorer2 -- 6/29/2009 5:11:56 AM >

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Post #: 6

RE: WaW Revised Version P Beta Now Available - 7/11/2009 6:33:51 AM

HamburgerHill

Posts: 152
Joined: 6/30/2009
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Hi Explorer,

Nice work. You,ve made a lot of great changes.

I,m playing an e-mail game right now as Axis. The sea war in the Atlantic is great fun, and North Africa is much more interesting with the changes you made.
I can't answer as to whether or not the partisans are still a bit too much since I am just getting to the point in the game where they are popping up.
I love the addition of the Night bomber as an answer to the problem of not having any real long range escorts available. I think they may be a bit too unstoppable though. I like there ability to evade enemy fighters but I think anti-air guns should work as well on them as stratigic bombers. There has to be some way of slowing those guys down. IMHO

(in reply to explorer2)

Post #: 7

RE: WaW Revised Version P Beta Now Available - 7/11/2009 9:08:33 AM

Appren

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Joined: 6/5/2008
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Indeed, I have to agree with my honored opponent, the night bombers are very powerful indeed. Just wait until I get some of them built myself!

(Oh wait, my factories are all in ashes due to night bombers...oh well, maybe when Uncle Sam enters the war!)

_____________________________

Appren's Guide to Advanced Tactics (Outdated)

Appren's Guide to fast exploration in random maps

(in reply to HamburgerHill)

Post #: 8

RE: WaW Revised Version P Beta Now Available - 7/12/2009 4:34:15 AM

explorer2

Posts: 465
Joined: 11/30/2007
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I have found that night bombers are indeed far too powerful.
Of those who have commented on and off forum, they really like the idea of the night bombers, but find them invincible.
I suggest agreeing not to use them as they are not balanced and AA are not strong enough against them.
I will change this in next version for sure.
Thanks for the comments. That's how I learn.

(in reply to Appren)

Post #: 9