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Does any of the leaders get promoted??

 
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Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/4/2009 1:30:35 AM   
bigjoe96912

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline 		Whats the deal. Do any of the leaders get promoted?? I am still waiting on Mitscher to become an admiral, I guess I shoulf have sunk the Hornet. And on top of that I have like 6 Capt Arleigh Burks
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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/4/2009 1:39:51 AM   
msieving1


Posts: 526
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: Missouri
Status: offline 		Leaders don't promote. Mitscher stays a captain for the whole war. And there are some duplicates in the database.

Frankly, the leaders database in stock is a mess. Hopefully, AE will fix that.

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/4/2009 2:54:51 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		However, the good news is that the rank doesn't matter... only the ratings. So if you make sure that Mitscher's carrier is the flagship of the TF, then he will be a very effective TF commander.  Personally, I haven't quite figured out to make any one CV the flagship over another...

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/4/2009 3:16:47 AM   
ckammp

 

Posts: 756
Joined: 5/30/2009
From: Rear Area training facility
Status: offline 		deleted

< Message edited by ckammp -- 11/1/2009 2:38:42 AM >

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/4/2009 3:19:58 AM   
cyberwop36

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 7/5/2004
From: Valparaiso, Indiana
Status: offline 		I play stock and Mitscher is a RADM TF commander I can select any time. He got promoted some time in 43. Of course Sherman and his clones command about 3 CV's. I can show you if I figure out how to do a screen cap. lol

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/4/2009 5:22:08 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Ranks do not change. They did in PacWar, but not in any of these series.

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/4/2009 6:39:27 AM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		I have found that the higher durability of the ship with the same class becomes the flagship, if there are more than two, it is the last one picked.

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Post #: 7
RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/4/2009 9:07:50 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

However, the good news is that the rank doesn't matter... only the ratings. So if you make sure that Mitscher's carrier is the flagship of the TF, then he will be a very effective TF commander.  Personally, I haven't quite figured out to make any one CV the flagship over another...



Rank does matter, try putting a Lt in charge of a CV. You can't. Neither can you do it the other way round. Generally a Capt can command a large ship, Cmdrs DDs and Lt small ships. Similar rules apply to LCU and Air.

Note I did say generally. The designers have determines who can and cannot be i/c of any particular unit and within that structure rank doesn't matter.

Now if you can and I'm missing something then I would like to know how.

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Post #: 8
RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/4/2009 9:41:49 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Ranks dont matter. They are a string in a file. What matters is the flag in the database that says what a given leader CAN command. You can change the rank of a given leader to "swabby first class" if you want to, but that wont prevent him from commanding a carrier TF if he is so flagged. There is a Col that can command SEAC for example.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 7/4/2009 9:42:11 AM >

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/4/2009 12:38:13 PM   
51st Highland Div


Posts: 347
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From: Glasgow,Scotland
Status: offline
Theres a few that would be lucky to be demoted to captain of a bilge carrying ship nevermind anything else...one person springs to mind...

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/5/2009 4:52:42 AM   
cyberwop36

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 7/5/2004
From: Valparaiso, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Ranks do not change. They did in PacWar, but not in any of these series.

Sorry but that is not true. I play stock and Mitscher is now a RADM and can't command a CV. And he is available as a TF commander any time I form a TF he can command it if he isn't already at sea.

I know I don't have 5k posts but if you can remind me how to take a screen shot I can prove it to you.

He got promoted sometime in '43.

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/5/2009 5:02:32 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberwop36


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Ranks do not change. They did in PacWar, but not in any of these series.

Sorry but that is not true. I play stock and Mitscher is now a RADM and can't command a CV. And he is available as a TF commander any time I form a TF he can command it if he isn't already at sea.

I know I don't have 5k posts but if you can remind me how to take a screen shot I can prove it to you.

He got promoted sometime in '43.


I think the situation here is that so many of us play CHS or other mods where he does not show up as an Admiral. I just checked through the list in my CHS 2.08 scen 159 game and he isn't there. It is probable that the mod designers never knew that you could add admirals as the war progressed.

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Post #: 12
RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/5/2009 5:20:36 AM   
cyberwop36

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 7/5/2004
From: Valparaiso, Indiana
Status: offline 		I'll modify my statement. I'm playing stock 42A and RADM Mitscher began as a CV commander, only selectable as a individual ship commander. Now in early 44 he is not on a list to be assign as a CV commander. But if I form any TF, even a MSW or a all AK tf in San Francisco he selectable as the TF commander if he is not already at sea. He has changed lists.

But he did begin the scenario as a RADM.

BTW, great tip on ship selection order. Now I can choose which CV or which highest class is the flag. I always ASSUMED it was random. At least in stock it's not.


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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/5/2009 8:55:14 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Heh, well... With the leader bug in WitP, it would be surprising if anyone was available for anything later on in the war. Most of my ships are commanded by US fighter pilots by mid-43 as it is now.

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/5/2009 10:57:04 PM   
cyberwop36

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 7/5/2004
From: Valparaiso, Indiana
Status: offline 		I don't seem to have guys disappearing any more. But there are a lot of clones of Sherman, Fort, Burke and the like.

The weird one is DD and smaller warships are infiltrated by Jap leaders of all branches. Every couple of weeks I have to go through them and weed them out. Capital ships don't have this problem. AK and TK every now and then.

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/6/2009 5:53:14 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Ranks dont matter. They are a string in a file. What matters is the flag in the database that says what a given leader CAN command. You can change the rank of a given leader to "swabby first class" if you want to, but that wont prevent him from commanding a carrier TF if he is so flagged. There is a Col that can command SEAC for example.



I repeat, try putting a Lt in charge of a CV. You can't. Now if rank didn't matter you could. Now I did qualify what I said my which was:

'Note I did say generally. The designers have determines who can and cannot be i/c of any particular unit and within that structure rank doesn't matter. '


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Post #: 16
RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/6/2009 5:57:20 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Ranks dont matter. They are a string in a file. What matters is the flag in the database that says what a given leader CAN command. You can change the rank of a given leader to "swabby first class" if you want to, but that wont prevent him from commanding a carrier TF if he is so flagged. There is a Col that can command SEAC for example.



I repeat, try putting a Lt in charge of a CV. You can't. Now if rank didn't matter you could. Now I did qualify what I said my which was:

'Note I did say generally. The designers have determines who can and cannot be i/c of any particular unit and within that structure rank doesn't matter. '




I've also noticed that you can't put a captain in charge of a destroyer or smaller in Vanilla WiTP. Only Commanders and Lt. Commanders on DDs, going to lower ranks as the size of the vessels decrease.

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/7/2009 2:11:28 AM   
msieving1


Posts: 526
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberwop36

I'll modify my statement. I'm playing stock 42A and RADM Mitscher began as a CV commander, only selectable as a individual ship commander. Now in early 44 he is not on a list to be assign as a CV commander. But if I form any TF, even a MSW or a all AK tf in San Francisco he selectable as the TF commander if he is not already at sea. He has changed lists.

But he did begin the scenario as a RADM.

BTW, great tip on ship selection order. Now I can choose which CV or which highest class is the flag. I always ASSUMED it was random. At least in stock it's not.



In the stock 42A scenario, Mitscher is a Rear Admiral and Task Force commander. That's how he starts and that's how he stays. At the start of the game, he is in command of Hornet, but if you replace him in that position you won't be able to put him in command of another ship.

In the stock scenarios that start in December 1941, Mitscher is a Captain and ship commander. You can't make him a task force commander unless he is captain of the task force flagship.

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Post #: 18
RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/7/2009 10:18:36 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		I think he is "Promoted" in database - Cpt.Mitscher (Ship commander) is withdrawn on set date and Adm.Mitscher (TF commander) comes on set date.
I dont know if Adm is dependent on Cpt (What if Cpt dies? does Adm comes in spite of it?)


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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/7/2009 11:05:58 PM   
cyberwop36

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 7/5/2004
From: Valparaiso, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: msieving1


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberwop36

I'll modify my statement. I'm playing stock 42A and RADM Mitscher began as a CV commander, only selectable as a individual ship commander. Now in early 44 he is not on a list to be assign as a CV commander. But if I form any TF, even a MSW or a all AK tf in San Francisco he selectable as the TF commander if he is not already at sea. He has changed lists.

But he did begin the scenario as a RADM.

BTW, great tip on ship selection order. Now I can choose which CV or which highest class is the flag. I always ASSUMED it was random. At least in stock it's not.



In the stock 42A scenario, Mitscher is a Rear Admiral and Task Force commander. That's how he starts and that's how he stays. At the start of the game, he is in command of Hornet, but if you replace him in that position you won't be able to put him in command of another ship.

In the stock scenarios that start in December 1941, Mitscher is a Captain and ship commander. You can't make him a task force commander unless he is captain of the task force flagship.


Hold on a second. To beat a dead horse and not that it really matters, but... If RADM Mitscher begins the game as a CV commander. The listed commander of the Hornet on the individual ship info screen. And if you replace him as ships captian he gets PROMOTED to the TF commander list and can't never be a individual ship commander again. Then to say "that's how he starts and that's how he stays" makes no sense.

It might be more accurate to say RADM Mitscher's promotion is hard wired into the game so when you replace him he moves up to the TF commander list.

I didn't lose the Hornet, and I really doubt I replaced him but I have him now as a TF commander.

And back to the stated question of the thread. Yes at least one guy gets promoted in stock.

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/9/2009 2:15:27 AM   
msieving1


Posts: 526
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberwop36


quote:

ORIGINAL: msieving1


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberwop36

I'll modify my statement. I'm playing stock 42A and RADM Mitscher began as a CV commander, only selectable as a individual ship commander. Now in early 44 he is not on a list to be assign as a CV commander. But if I form any TF, even a MSW or a all AK tf in San Francisco he selectable as the TF commander if he is not already at sea. He has changed lists.

But he did begin the scenario as a RADM.

BTW, great tip on ship selection order. Now I can choose which CV or which highest class is the flag. I always ASSUMED it was random. At least in stock it's not.



In the stock 42A scenario, Mitscher is a Rear Admiral and Task Force commander. That's how he starts and that's how he stays. At the start of the game, he is in command of Hornet, but if you replace him in that position you won't be able to put him in command of another ship.

In the stock scenarios that start in December 1941, Mitscher is a Captain and ship commander. You can't make him a task force commander unless he is captain of the task force flagship.


Hold on a second. To beat a dead horse and not that it really matters, but... If RADM Mitscher begins the game as a CV commander. The listed commander of the Hornet on the individual ship info screen. And if you replace him as ships captian he gets PROMOTED to the TF commander list and can't never be a individual ship commander again. Then to say "that's how he starts and that's how he stays" makes no sense.

It might be more accurate to say RADM Mitscher's promotion is hard wired into the game so when you replace him he moves up to the TF commander list.

I didn't lose the Hornet, and I really doubt I replaced him but I have him now as a TF commander.

And back to the stated question of the thread. Yes at least one guy gets promoted in stock.


Use the database editor and look at Mitscher (he's leader #12510) in the Campaign 42A (scenario 13) database. His Rank is "29 - RADM - USN", and his Type is "04 - Task Force". That doesn't change during the game.

If you look at Mitscher in scenario 15, his Rank is "28 - CPT - USN", and his Type is "05 - Ship". That doesn't change during the game.

In the Campaign 42A game, Mitscher is an admiral starting out. If you look at Hornet at the beginning of the game, you'll see that Mitscher, while he is the commanding officer of Hornet, is already a Rear Admiral. He's not a Captain. He doesn't get promoted when you replace him, he stays at the rank he started.

You can make anyone the commanding officer of Hornet at the beginning of the game, using the database editor. Chiang Kai-Chek could be captain of Hornet, and he'd stay there until he's replaced. But he's not a Captain, and he doesn't get promoted when he's replaced.

I know the game sometimes replaces leaders by itself. I've seen it put Japanese Warrant Officers in command of USN ships. If Mitscher appears on the Task Force commander list when you know you haven't replaced him as CO of Hornet, you might want to take a look at Hornet. You may find W.O. Suzuki in command.

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/9/2009 6:48:13 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		The only fleet carrier I've lost in my PBEM vs Chez is the Hornet, and so I have lost Mitscher. 

I've checked, and he doesn't show up on any new carriers, nor does he show up on either the replacement captains or admirals list.

I also checked all my ships in Pearl Harbor and found one japanese LTJG in charge of a US DD, and one Air Corps 1LT in charge of another one...  but those were the only leader bug incidents among all the ships in Pearl right now (May '44).


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Post #: 22
RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/9/2009 6:51:03 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		What we mean by saying that "rank doesn't matter" is that if a particular leader becomes the TF leader because his ship is chosen to be the flagship, then his ratings as a captain will perform just as well in combat as the ratings of an Admiral chosen to be put in command instead. So it does not pay to place an admiral who has lower ratings in command over a Mitscher or Sherman. 

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Brad

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Post #: 23
RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/9/2009 3:19:47 PM   
AirGriff


Posts: 701
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

What we mean by saying that "rank doesn't matter" is that if a particular leader becomes the TF leader because his ship is chosen to be the flagship, then his ratings as a captain will perform just as well in combat as the ratings of an Admiral chosen to be put in command instead. So it does not pay to place an admiral who has lower ratings in command over a Mitscher or Sherman. 


Perfect. I have been meaning to get that question answered for a long time. Thanks.

Does a ship commander's admin skill help anything? Quicker repair time or something, maybe? How about ship commander's air skill for something like a DD or CA? Would that help the AA? I'm sure it's in the manual, but since the subject is raised...

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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/9/2009 4:52:59 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I wish that I could answer those two questions with authority, but I have no real idea... it is not in the manual.

I do treat the administrative rating as valuable in repair, but that is merely conjecture on my part.

I have noticed that TF commanders who are listed as "best for an invasion fleet" have a high ground combat rating (compared to other naval officers!), but I don't know if a high air rating has any effect upon AA.


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RE: Does any of the leaders get promoted?? - 7/9/2009 5:13:28 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

The only fleet carrier I've lost in my PBEM vs Chez is the Hornet, and so I have lost Mitscher. 

I've checked, and he doesn't show up on any new carriers, nor does he show up on either the replacement captains or admirals list.

I also checked all my ships in Pearl Harbor and found one japanese LTJG in charge of a US DD, and one Air Corps 1LT in charge of another one...  but those were the only leader bug incidents among all the ships in Pearl right now (May '44).



I ended up with a US Army major in command of an RO boat in my PBEM. I replaced him with a more appropriate commander at first chance.

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