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AA defence - 5/31/2002 3:50:19 AM   
Camylarde

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Olomouc, Czech republic
Status: offline 		Can anybody describe the art of defending my platoons against the airstrikes?

(I think I am familiar with inf, arty and tank command, but neither manual nor tutorials teached me how to handle even a single stuka) My heavy AA flak guns seems useless against JU-87B Stuka or DO 217 E high level bombers... So whats optimal if I want to wipe out that two aircraft without loses and without buying full battalion of AA guns... They need med truck to tow them and lose their initiative when unloaded...
Post #: 1
Re: AA defence - 5/31/2002 4:31:06 AM   
bigtroutz


Posts: 2417
Joined: 4/22/2001
From: Montana, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Camylarde
[B]Can anybody describe the art of defending my platoons against the airstrikes?

(I think I am familiar with inf, arty and tank command, but neither manual nor tutorials teached me how to handle even a single stuka) My heavy AA flak guns seems useless against JU-87B Stuka or DO 217 E high level bombers... So whats optimal if I want to wipe out that two aircraft without loses and without buying full battalion of AA guns... They need med truck to tow them and lose their initiative when unloaded... [/B][/QUOTE]

its not all that easy :(

keep in mind that mech units like trucks, AFV, tanks, etc are preferentially targeted by strike aircraft. high level bombers target general areas and most drop in straight lines based on the axis of advance. AA has no effect on high level bombers that i have ever observed. Therefore, your efforts can really only be aimed at strike aircraft.

1) buy better AA units...for US i like M15 & M15A1 sp AA best.
quad and dual barrel AA seem to perform better than large cal AA

2) place AA units where they have a large field of fire overlooking the area you wish to defend, rt click with the AA unit selected to see the field of fire.

3) place low value mech units like empty trucks so that they are between the aircraft entry point and your more valuable mechs and also far away from infantry so that they form safe "bait" for the aircraft

4) dont forget that many AFV & tanks have AA machineguns

My best AA results are when each strike aircraft must sequentially pass a several AA units before they drop on target.

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Post #: 2
Smaller is Better - 5/31/2002 11:56:37 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		That was a very good nutshell. The only thing I'd add is to buy small to medium size caliber AA. The big stuff just doesn't get enough shots at a given air strike to have much of a hope of killing the plane.

Even with 50+ visibility, and the occasional long-range potshot, AA doesn't start pounding in earnest until the strike aircraft are coming within ~600 meter threat radius.

The smaller caliber guns have the advantage of more shots per turn. They will typically fire more rounds during an aircraft strike, and are able to continue to engage more new air strikes during a turn than the big calibers.

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"Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible. "
- Stonewall Jackson

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Post #: 3
The results - 5/31/2002 3:44:09 PM   
Camylarde

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Olomouc, Czech republic
Status: offline 		Yeah! I buyed some m13 and m15 and wiped 2 Stukas and both DO 217 high levels in one and half a turn. One Stuka and DO 217 never got to the first target and the second stuka and DO were damaged after their first strike (in another turn). The results are excelent, I used only 260 credits and the sky is clear.Does the same advantage of low caliber AA apply to others? I think so, that's why I'm now applying some GMC's into the warmachine, my shermans will appreciate some backup...

(in reply to Camylarde)
Post #: 4
- 5/31/2002 4:54:31 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Camylarde, I have yet to see small-arms (< 20mm) down an aircraft, but I suppose it's been done. (obviously you did it)

My absolute fav's are the quads. Excellent rate of fire, and if you don't have aircraft around to shoot at, there's always infantry. :D

A 20mm autocannon is not to be undestimated either. Rapid fire AP tends to do alot of damage.

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Post #: 5
An AA umbrella..... - 5/31/2002 8:18:38 PM   
Orzel Bialy


Posts: 2664
Joined: 4/4/2002
From: Wisconsin USA
Status: offline 		should be looked at as an annoyance and not a "shield"...let us not forget that.
All the flak units in the world won't keep the AI or a human opponent from utilizing A/C. Even if you put an entire Battalion of flak guns on the ground...something will get through and hurt you. ( I know...I have a lot of flak units in "Summer Fury" because I had a feeling Hellcat would throw Airborne troops at me...and he is still getting them through....along with ground attack planes!) So don't kid yourself into thinking you can escape unharmed...it's not very likely. :)
Outside of that...I agree the best guns are the rapid fire types...multiple .50's or 20's and some of the 37's put up a nice wall of lead. (The 20's are what have brought down two or three planes in "summer fury") And remember...even if they don't knock something down...doing damage or throwing them off their run is just as good!
Ok...there's another 2 cents from Orzel! ;)

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Post #: 6
Re: An AA umbrella..... - 6/1/2002 7:32:18 AM   
bigtroutz


Posts: 2417
Joined: 4/22/2001
From: Montana, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Orzel Bialy
[B]should be looked at as an annoyance and not a "shield"...let us not forget that.
All the flak units in the world won't keep the AI or a human opponent from utilizing A/C. Even if you put an entire Battalion of flak guns on the ground...something will get through and hurt you. ( I know...I have a lot of flak units in "Summer Fury" because I had a feeling Hellcat would throw Airborne troops at me...and he is still getting them through....along with ground attack planes!) So don't kid yourself into thinking you can escape unharmed...it's not very likely. :)
Outside of that...I agree the best guns are the rapid fire types...multiple .50's or 20's and some of the 37's put up a nice wall of lead. (The 20's are what have brought down two or three planes in "summer fury") And remember...even if they don't knock something down...doing damage or throwing them off their run is just as good!
Ok...there's another 2 cents from Orzel! ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

errrr..... SOMETIMES good AA placement IS a shield.....
I remember a Guadalcanal Campaign episode where i placed 6 20mm AA along the beachfront. The Japanese strike aircraft passed along in front of them and the various AUX AA capable units like ducks in a shooting gallery with the expected results....ALL aircraft shot down or badly damaged on the 1st turn, never to appear again !! I did lose a barge to one flaming kamikaze impact and a ammo dump, but nothing serious.

Admittedly, this doesnt happen EVERY time, but it IS possible.

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Post #: 7
- 6/1/2002 9:36:56 AM   
WhiteRook

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Minneapolis, MN
Status: offline 		You guys have pretty well covered the question, but as an aside I have personally taken out High Level bombers with US 3in DP guns. The nice part of all of this is that I do not count on them taking anything down! It just occurs and I never question it! :D

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Post #: 8
still don't agree.... - 6/1/2002 9:59:54 AM   
Orzel Bialy


Posts: 2664
Joined: 4/4/2002
From: Wisconsin USA
Status: offline 		you may have got six out of six...but that is a rare exception in my book....and no way indicative of what most frequently happens during most battles. So it's good that you capitalized the word SOMESTIMES...though a better wording would probably be "ON A RARE OCCASION".
The question here was....
"So whats optimal if I want to wipe out that two aircraft without loses and without buying full battalion of AA guns..."
So the answer is still....
"There is no truly optimal way to GUARANTEE this."
The law of averages is what is usually used to determined how effective a given tactic is...and once that is taken into account there is, again, no pre-determined setup that will protect you 60% or 70% or 80% or 90% of the time from air attack.
Whew! :)

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Post #: 9
- 6/1/2002 12:03:10 PM   
bigtroutz


Posts: 2417
Joined: 4/22/2001
From: Montana, USA
Status: offline 		heh, i agree, orzel, its unpredictable, and as i said in my 1st post on the topic, "its not all that easy". Part of what makes SP-WAW so replayable.

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Post #: 10
Fun? remember fun? - 6/2/2002 3:39:16 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by bigtroutz
[B]heh, i agree, orzel, its unpredictable, and as i said in my 1st post on the topic, "its not all that easy". Part of what makes SP-WAW so replayable. [/B][/QUOTE]

And I'm glad it's not that straightforward. The replayability is a major factor in my enjoyment of this game.

If we all knew that to protect our ground troops from air strikes, we need only to place five 3in DP AA guns at ten hex intervals, set to fire at ranges within 20. This would kill any and all planes.

Where's the fun in that? :p

_____________________________

"Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible. "
- Stonewall Jackson

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Post #: 11
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