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Madden 2002 - 7/8/2009 6:12:01 PM

regenerator

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Joined: 12/11/2005
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I'm posting this not-related-to-MaxFB thread bc, well, MaxFB is dead, so I figured what the heck.

Since we could be waiting years for MaxFB 3.0, and the current version of Max is not a playable game IMO, as well as having no other realistic graphics-based sim-football game on the horizon, I've decided to give Madden 2002 a try. From what I've been able to research, it seems to be the best available option.

I'm tired of waiting around for THE sim-PC football game to come out, and Madden '02 seems to be the closest anyone ever came to the dream of failed games like this one and FB Pro '99.

So - what do are the most prominent flaws in Madden 2002? I've heard that the defensive AI has quite a few problems, that the passing game is unrealistically prolific, whereas the running game is stifled, etc. Can't you resolve these errors using the sliders/global player modifiers?

I also heard a patch that was released shortly after the game was put out perhaps solves a lot of these problems. Are there any insurmountable problems?

To give an example of what I consider a deal-breaker, here's a short list of what closed the deal for me as far as my interest in Maximum Football:
1) No onside kick
2) Unrealistic gameplay and statistical results
2a. With no sliders/global player editors (outside of JD's utility, which if he ever finished this last vers MIGHT have made this game playable, if it wasn't for the onside issue)
2b. Even with Hack's plays, which are the best out there, I wasn't able to see a realistic variety of plays and the stats were almost always off. Too many short passes, nearly every incomplete pass was a drop rather than the QB just completely missing his target, etc etc.

Could those who have xp with Madden 2002 pls let me know what you think of the game overall? Is it worth it to go ahead and "take the plunge" with my time and efforts into building leagues with this game? My main goal is to be able to create a small-sized league, 8-12 teams, of custom-made teams and play out a franchise with realistic results.

Thanks

Post #: 1

RE: Madden 2002 - 7/8/2009 7:00:24 PM

Old Coach

Posts: 1414
Joined: 1/11/2005
From: Shepherdsville, Kentucky
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I have Madden 2002 and think it's good game to play if:
a) You edit player ratings so that they make sense. For example, you'll see DB's with lower speed ratings than some linemen.
b) A play editor is not important to you. Madden 02 doesn't have a play editor.
c) Limited playbooks are not a deterent to you. The playbooks are a bit skimpy.
d) You don't mind that there are almost no running plays designed for the QB to run the ball.
If I remember correctly the QB can only run out of 1 or 2 shotgun formations. For me that
was real negative because I set up college teams to play and in the college game, the QB
runs the ball often.

Despite the things I listed, I enjoyed Madden 02. I played it in coach mode and used the pressbox/TV view. Later Madden versions eliminated the pressbox view. I did extensive editing of player ratings and eventually came up with fairly realistic results in gameplay. I stopped playing Madden 02 when I became part of the MaxFB beta team.

I disagree that MaxFB is dead. I play it extensively and enjoy it very much. Check out some of my posts that deal with gameplay results.

Old Coach

(in reply to regenerator)

Post #: 2

RE: Madden 2002 - 7/9/2009 12:25:36 AM

Mrgravyard50

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Joined: 2/11/2007
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Maybe someone should try to fix Fb Pro 99? If they can.. Or Even go back try to redo 98?

(in reply to Old Coach)

Post #: 3

RE: Madden 2002 - 7/9/2009 12:48:43 AM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
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Well I'm certainly with Old Coach

MaxFB is far from dead, obviously its fanbase has died down a great deal
But DEAD.............. I dont think so, still a good core of gameplayers and leagues around.

Madden 2002, way to limited in my opinion
I much prefer Madden 2004, you cant play 8-12 team leagues with 04
but its far superior to 02.

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Post #: 4

RE: Madden 2002 - 7/9/2009 9:05:42 AM

Magnum357

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regenerator, It has been a while since I have been on these boards. First, I will say that I don't know if Max Football is dead (the message boards don't seem to have nearly quite as many people compared to a couple of years ago) but there still seems to be a few die-hards on the boards. That must mean Max Football must still have some positive points compared to other football games. I can only run version 1.0 because my OS won't allow me to run 2.0.

As for Madden 2002, I agree with Old Coach, in my opinon it is probably the best overall Madden game ever developed on the PC. As Old Coach has stated, its pretty limited in features compared to Max Football, and its WAY to easy to pass the ball with that version, but I have found a few ways to get around this to make the game play a little more like real football game.

1. One way to make the game play realistically is set all players speed ratings between 10 to 50. Ya, I know this will make for some unrealistic speeds for players, but for some reason the game engine seems to make the game work better if all speed ratings are lower.

2. AI sliders work to a point, but the effects are minor. Player Ratings seem to have a better effect, in my opinion.

3. Try Lowering certain QB Ratings to keep the Passing game from turning into a "Bomb fest".

(in reply to Mykal)

Post #: 5

RE: Madden 2002 - 7/9/2009 2:37:26 PM

Old Coach

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What Magnum said about lowering the speed ratings in Madden 02 to a maximum of 50 is interesting. I didn't go that low with speed ratings in Madden, but I kept the max at about 85. In MaxFB, I've found that capping the SPD at 80 gives good results- realistic scores and not a clut of long TD plays. If you play using the ratings assigned by the A.I. you can get some really outlandish results. The key to getting good gameplay results in MaxFB is with play design and the interaction of player ratings. The defensive A.I. of any computer game can be beaten by a human. The software simply can't match human thought process and reaction to situations. It can perform the reaction faster than we can, but it's interpretation of what action to take is inferior. So that means that you can design plays that will almost always defeat the defense. To get realistic results, don't keep those plays in your playbook. If you have created an A.I. buster, tweak it so it's not or eliminate it from your playbook. The other aspect of gameplay is how the math works to control the player matchups on the field. This is based upon the player ratings. I have worked as tester since 2003. My focus has been on PDS and how player ratings affect gameplay. I have posted some ratings charts on FBMAX. I get decent gameplay results using these parameters.

Old Coach

(in reply to Magnum357)

Post #: 6

RE: Madden 2002 - 7/9/2009 5:48:28 PM

Marauders

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quote:

To give an example of what I consider a deal-breaker, here's a short list of what closed the deal for me as far as my interest in Maximum Football:

1) No onside kick

I have made onside kick plays. The problem is that the game broke them somewhere along the way by not allowing KAC and KST rating below 40 for any player that is on a roster.

Of course, it would have been nice to have been able to create the play from inside the PDS with Kick: Deep, Kick: Squib, and Kick: Onside options.

(in reply to Old Coach)

Post #: 7

RE: Madden 2002 - 7/9/2009 10:52:33 PM

Magnum357

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Joined: 4/22/2005
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Marauders, those are some good thoughts on how Max Football should have had an Onside Kick system.� Your example of how you can't�get a Kickers Kick Acc/Kick Pwr below 40 is a good example of a few of the problems Max Football has.� In version 1.0, I was designing a Utility to allow the user to change the rating ranges of players to whatever you wanted, but for some reason changing the Rating Ranges in the main Database file had no effect when you created new players for your league.� Maybe this is different in 2.0, but I know I couldn't get it to work in 1.0.� Ya, you can get different levels of ratings by setting the league parameters to "Highschool, College, Pro, All-star" but�you don't have a�lot of control on the player rating ranges, which as Old Coach indicated, helps when you combine them with good PDS plays and gameplay .ini sliders.

Old Coach, in PC Madden 2002, the best results I have had is just basically lower ALL Speed ratings to around that 10 to 50 rating range.� This is in combination with how many minute quarters you use and what gameplay slider settings you use.� Having Linemen with ratings of 15 to 20 points of speed and Wide Receivers and Defensive Backs with ratings of 40 to 50 does make them really slow, but in my experience it seems to help the gameplay out because the Defensive AI (even with slider settings)�is just plain crappy!� It even helps out the�Rushing game a bit aswell�because the Defensive Linemen don't explode as fast off the LOS and stuff a run all the time.

Keep in mind, this rating system�I use is mostly for Highschool/College or Minor league Football level.� If you pulled the players in an NFL type league, the overal�ratings of the players would naturally be closer to the higher end of each positions top rating.�

< Message edited by Magnum357 -- 7/9/2009 11:12:47 PM >

(in reply to Marauders)

Post #: 8

RE: Madden 2002 - 7/11/2009 2:43:50 PM

Old Coach

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Another remark or two about Madden 2002. I have thought many times that if you could somehow combine MaxFB's play editor with Madden 2002 animations you would have a great football game. I liked the Madden 02 player models and the pressbox view of the action on the field. I don't play any game in arcade mode because of arthritis in my hands so the press box view worked best and looked the best to me. A few refinements to the uniform editor in Madden 02 such as UCLA strips and no facemask option would of been nice as well. Of course Madden 02 doesn't have a stadium editor but the stadiums provided were fine. The nice thing about Madden 02 is that you add your own helmet and field art.

I get the impression that MaxFB 3.0 will have player models and animations equal to or better than Madden 02. I also understand that any uniform art done for 2.0 will have to be scrapped and new uniforms done for 3.0 due to the more advanced player models.

Old Coach

(in reply to Magnum357)

Post #: 9

RE: Madden 2002 - 7/11/2009 6:18:51 PM

Tbird

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I still play it as well, I'm currently on my 9th season with my single player league and at 1 point I was running 3 leagues all at once til time became an issue

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Post #: 10

RE: Madden 2002 - 7/14/2009 3:03:48 PM

long_time_fan

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Joined: 8/18/2007
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I'm on my 5th year of my uber (56 team) Continental Football League (CFL), and I still enjoy playing. The auto sim of the league games ties up my computer for about half-an-hour, but that's my only grip. It's the only way to play Canadian rules on a PC, so I'll most likely be playing until FBMax 3.0 goes gold in the future.
LTF

(in reply to Tbird)

Post #: 11