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Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
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Here is an idea for you guys to mull over: "Vietnam: The Anglo-French Campaigns in Southeast Asia."
There are already a couple of very good Vietnam 'scenarios' for TOAWIII, but they are a pretty much operational military engine only. Moreover, since the TOAWIII engine is a general one, in the last incarnation of the Vietnam scenarios I played, there were some historical and military dimensions to that conflict which had to be scripted in through events and victory rules and such which just seemed a bit awkward.
A good Vietnam game, one which actually allowed for alternate historical outcomes, highlighted the importance of military policy, social foreign policy, domestic policy, public relations, etc., would have to be just about the most innovative, genre-busting game ever.
Imagine a game that is: part BoB (for airborne, airmobile, air-to-ground and air-to-air ops), part TOAWIII (for basic operational level combat), part Civilization [but MUCH better by being focused on only one historical period] (for espionage, diplomacy, resource acquisition and utilization, and unit and infrastructure building), part Hired Guns (for Tactical level battles), part Crown of Glory/FoF (diplomacy model, container model, promotions model).
Imagine if you are in the shoes of Eisenhower, playing the "Post War Period" campaign. The French (AI) is bogged down in Indochina against the Vietminh forces of Ho Chi Minh. The engine would need to be cleverly balanced so that a player in any given campaign would have a small to medium-sized array of at least slightly differing options in terms of decisions for policy (military size and training, technologies on which to focus, diplomatic relations, espionage and foreign policy actions and statements, transparency with the press, and speeches [ohh! imagine if something like the CoG diplomacy engine was used to create a cut-n-paste "public statement" engine . . . mapping out all the various permutations and pieces would be a bit complex, but I have no doubt with all the brain power at Matrix it could be done!]. What general path do you want to take for the next four years Ike? What piece will your Vietnam policy play in your overall policy? Will you get reelected? Decide to cryptically send in a team of Green Berets to try to assassinate Ho Chi Minh? Take control of the operation in either/or the Tactical or Operational level engine. Be careful in case a covert op you authorize gets exposed and you take the negative PR hit and risk not getting elected for a second term!
So you managed to win the election for that second term? How do you change your policies now? Do you think in terms of a long-term vision that will set up your predecessor for long-term victory (but perhaps cause you to achieve only a "Stalemate" victory condition for this campaign section?) or do you go for broke and try to change the course of history dramatically and early in the conflict. The engine would need to weigh things like troop deployment levels, operational doctrine effects (e.g., free-fire zones, full-scale bombing, etc.), psyops and propaganda as well as military-press relations and in-country diplomatic actions and weigh these against casualties in generating media reactions, public and congressional reactions, and the ratio of victory points.
As a very important conflict which COULD have gone either way, and was exceedingly complicated in involving larger foreign policy issues, domestic issues, a myriad of different political and military historical figures, fascinating military technology, doctrine, and hardware, etc., I think a game that _really_ tried to convey the Vietnam era would be an absolutely incredible game. I bet if Matrix got behind a project, and harnessed the knowledge, enthusiasm and expertise of some of the forum regulars who are modders for Vietnam scenarios for TOAWIII (e.g., Boonierats, but there are other guys too I know) in a year or two you guys could make an astoundingly good game.
Whats more, I think we are far enough past that era that the world might be ready for it. There are still a lot of living Vietnam vets; many of whom were very traumatized by their experiences, but I think many of whom would LOVE the chance to 'redo things the right way' and not forsake victory. I'm not saying it should be a game in which the US playe can make whatever decisions he needs to make to achieve victory. The give-and-take and the constraints of being a Democratically elected commander in chief in a spooled rotten nation with a hyper-active press and media should mean that it is ALWAYS a challenge to achieve a victory, or for that matter even to do as well as the historical leaders did. What is more, the transition from leader to leader, and the chance that you get alternate Presidents (as well as alternate S. Viet. leaders) would absolutely need to be modelled in there. But even if it was very hard to 'win' a big campaign, it would be an awesome game.
Not to mention the younger generation guys like me who were just being born as the war was winding down. We all grew up sitting on the living room carpet watching the last few images of that conflict on the news when we were toddlers, and our whole lives we have been inundated wtih rhetoric about that war. Plus the even younger Generation Y and Netgen segments of the market . . . WWII is true "history" to almost all of us, and CW, Nappy, WWI, etc. is definitely full-fledged history to all of us.
Vietnam is something we all (or at least Gen X and prior) have some realworld connection to. Granted, there remain quite strong opinions, and quite probably tender wounds that have never fully healed, and probably never will. But I don't think that that is a reason NOT to make a great game. Indeed, I think it is an even bigger reason to make a great game. I think if done as good as Matrix can do a game, if all the best ideas and best resources at your disposal were carefully marshaled, and you started with a visionary "break with convention and let the nature of the topic define the 'rules' for the engine and game design" kind of strategy, you guys could make a game that would cause an Earthquake in the gaming industry and quite likely revolutionize strategy wargaming. Plus, you'd probably make a bundle of $$ . . .
The industry/hobby is getting a bit full of hacks and cliche pulp fiction at this point (which was the original point of this thread), and I think that this is what it needs.
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RE: Enough already! - 
Being described as "challenging" is better than not being described at all. Besides, I have never seen "depth" being a reason for a low rating. Poor tutorials, incomprehensible interfaces, rampant bugs and ugly graphics do that. "Depth" ends up being a positive characteristics in any mainstream review, and simplicity often gets blasted (take a look at any review for Spore). 
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) 
It does not matter how the clock advances, but what is happening while it advances. In RT pause-able both sides are doing things simultaneously. That is how Eu and HoI operate-regardless if you stop the clock every hour, day, or month. WEGO is the nice in-between method-sort of turn based, but sort of not turn based.
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