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My first PBEM as Japan - advice needed - 7/16/2009 1:14:27 AM

Sarganto
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Hi folks,

after beating up the stupid AI enough, I will start my first PBEM with a friend shortly.
We will use stock scenario 15 and version 1.80 (or are there major changes in the patches after that?), without historical turn 1, but allied surprise on.

Anyway, I only played Allies so far now I will play Japan the first time. I've read that the Japanese industry is almost unmanageable without some sort of additional programs. Which are these, which should I get and how do they work?

And in general, I would love if all the Japan Fanboys out there share their knowledge with me, so I can join your ranks. Any tips for my starting turn are also welcome, cause I have no idea what to do and what not to do.

For example:

Pearl Harbor:
I want to do the PH-attack and I always read that a second attack at the second day isn't that good. But as far as I see, the PH-airfield will probably be closed, therefore I don't have to be afraid of any CAP coming after my bombers and no bombers can come after my CVs.
So where is the problem of a 2-day attack at PH? I could finish off a lot of already damaged ships.
But is it necessary to send all 6 CVs down there or could 4 be enough? I could use the rest and my CVLs to aid in the PI.

Manchukuo:
I can withdraw units from there into China, without paying any PPs right? As I only have to maintain 8000AV there, I could withdraw the Base Forces and HQs without any problem. But which units with AV should I take from there?

Hong Kong:
Should I move into Hong Kong right away? There is one DIV (38th) which has Hong Kong already set as future objective. And should I take the arty with me?
I have no clear plan for overall China yet, but I know, that I don't want to neglect it, like I did it in the games I played before.

I guess that's enough questions for one post. But I will keep asking questions as I am planning my first turn.

Thanks for your help in advance.

< Message edited by Sarganto -- 7/16/2009 6:48:09 PM >

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/16/2009 1:38:19 AM

GaryChildress
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarganto

Hi folks,

after beating up the stupid AI enough, I will start my first PBEM with a friend shortly.
We will use stock scenario 15 and version 1.80 (or are there major changes in the patches after that?), without historical turn 1, but allied surprise on.

Anyway, I only played Allies so far now I will play Japan the first time. I've read that the Japanese industry is almost unmanageable without some sort of additional programs. Which are these, which should I get and how do they work?

And in general, I would love if all the Japan Fanboys out there share their knowledge with me, so I can join your ranks. Any tips for my starting turn are also welcome, cause I have no idea what to do and what not to do.

For example:

Pearl Harbor:
I want to do the PH-attack and I always read that a second attack at the second day isn't that good. But as far as I see, the PH-airfield will probably be closed, therefore I don't have to be afraid of any CAP coming after my bombers and no bombers can come after my CVs.
So where is the problem of a 2-day attack at PH? I could finish off a lot of already damaged ships.
But is it necessary to send all 6 CVs down there or could 4 be enough? I could use the rest and my CVLs to aid in the PI.

Manchukuo:
I can withdraw units from there into China, without paying any PPs right? As I only have to maintain 8000AV there, I could withdraw the Base Forces and HQs without any problem. But which units with AV should I take from there?

Hong Kong:
Should I move into Hong Kong right away? There is one DIV (38th) which has Hong Kong already set as future objective. And should I take the arty with me?
I have no clear plan for overall China yet, but I know, that I don't want to neglect it, like I did it in the games I played before.

I guess that's enough questions for one post. But I will keep asking questions as I am planning my first turn.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Greetings Sarganto!

One thing I like to do on a non-historical turn one is to "magic-move" all my CVLs and CVEs to someplace in Japan to form up Baby KB. Upgrade as many of Baby KB's Claudes to Zeros as you can. I don't know what your house rules will be but when permitted I would "downgrade" a daitai or two of land based Zeros to Claudes just so I could equip ALL of my CVLs and CVEs with Zeros. I prefer to have Baby KB with a potent fighter defense as possible.

While we're on the subject of the "magic-move", again I don't know what house rules you have, but usually it is OK for the Japanese player to shift around his fleet to different locations even if you aren't allowed more than 1 port attack or even if you aren't allowed any "gamey" amphibious invasions way behind Allied lines. I usually take great advantage of a "magic-move" turn to shift around my fleet to suit my future plans better.

Other possible turn 1 moves:

1. Convert a few AKs to ARs or MLEs. MLEs are good for the Japs as the Japanese have a LOT of MLs, unlike the Allies.

2. Can't remember if there are any "torpedo tenders" in stock (there are in CHS which I play) but if there are I would move a torpedo tender to Kwajalein so you can refit your DDs with torps there.

3. Group a large number of your TKs toward Camran Bay or Saigon to get them ready to start transporting oil out of the DEI.

4. Get a couple TFs of supplies headed on the "magic-move" toward Kwajalein and Palau. Palau tends to run short of supplies rather quick IIRC.

Those are some of the things I do. Other JFBs probably have different priorities depending upon their strategy.

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/16/2009 4:09:08 AM

Xxzard
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I don't know how much detailed information I can give you, but I'll try to help at least.

Operationally, and to a degree strategically, in planning and executing your invasions early on, don't worry too much about allied airpower. I'm sure you noticed playing allied vs AI that pretty much all the bomber groups in the DEI-Malaya-PI area are very low experience and basically suck. So, while you shouldn't risk anything unnecessarily, keep in mind their hit rate will be terrible, and only the few torp bombers in the area pose a real threat to your warships. Also remeber that Japan has a lot of transports to work with (but fewer tankers) so losing some will not hurt your war effort much.

That being said, in my experience with PBEM, the biggest unexpected threat to invasion forces in that area was allied surface combat groups, which often include force Z. Against a human player expect full speed hit and run tactics and creative positioning of where they will attack. So for this reason, don't let your invasion forces get too exposed and go without escort. This is the real purpose of the mini KB.

One big advantage that Japan has is a lot of recon planes available, so use them to see what bases have been reinforced and what bases have been abandoned.

Of course as is really the same with the allies, be sure to bring enough forces that you know you will overcome the enemy.

Oh, and in regard to your actual questions:

1. The 2nd Day strike may finish off some ships, but remember that the ships in PH aren't really the ones you should worry about. Those old BB's are terribly slow and are nearly useless without air cover, so sinking them is actually not a top priority for your CV's. Moreover, any losses to your high exp, nearly irreplaceable IJN pilot corps is unacceptable. You get so few of these guys each month, and those are actually desperately needed for land based squadrons as well. Save your pilots for when you really need them: against Allied CV's!

2. Take out any tank units, in large groups they are fast and deadly. Other than that, there are really just normal army strength units.

3. One Division will eventually take out Hong Kong, and arty will help somewhat, but Jap arty is pretty bad. However, I would recommend sending both Div's that are at Canton, because that should take out Hong Kong quite quickly. Don't worry about a counterattack too much, Canton is an urban hex and you would be defending against very poor chinese units.

GL

< Message edited by Xxzard -- 7/16/2009 4:21:10 AM >

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/16/2009 6:13:10 AM

FeurerKrieg
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1. PH - I wouldn't waste pilot on day 2 strike. AA will kill your ultra valuable IJN pilots, and there are other airbases in Hawaii that an enterprising Allied player could fly CAP from. The slow BBs are not a big concern. Saving pilots is.

2. Manchukuo - You might have a house rule that says you need to pay PPs, I don't know. Some people (myself included) don't think it is real sporting to pull units out of there without paying PPs. That being said, There are lots of units with no AV that are useful, Engineers, AA guns, ART, etc. Also, the smaller cavalry units can be divided and used to garrison bases in China that have low requirements, so that you full divisions can keep pushing on the front lines.

3. Bring more than 1 division. You need HK to fall fast, so you can turn and push up toward Wuchow/Liuchow, etc. I could go on about China, but if you want to see China strategies hit the AARs (mine and others).

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/16/2009 2:29:43 PM

RevRick
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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/20/2009 12:12:04 AM

Sarganto
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Pie Jesu Domine, dona eis requiem

After a few months, I may say as the Romans:
Cae caret ora cruore nostro? - Horace

I thank you all for your priceless tips, but I guess we will go with the historical turn, or I am going to turn insane. I just started diving into the Japanese industry and this is already so much stuff I have to keep in mind that working on my first move would be simply too much. With the historical turn, I have to handle the given situation and can still set my own goals, but it's not THAT complicated anymore.

Considering the Japanese Industry, especially the aircrafts. When a squadron is coming as a reinforcement, I have to have that many aircrafts in the pool, so it can be delivered to the map, right?
But what will happen, if I don't have that many aircrafts ready? Will it be delivered, when the needed amount is in the pool? Or will it simply disappeard? Don't think I found an explanation to that yet.

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/20/2009 1:37:14 AM

n01487477
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WitpTracker or Decoder is what you want ...

you can choose which you prefer.

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/20/2009 3:15:57 AM

Mynok
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Reinforcement aircraft do not require pool aircraft. If it is a disbanded or withdrawn group, it does.

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/20/2009 3:39:06 AM

n01487477
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Reinforcement aircraft do not require pool aircraft. If it is a disbanded or withdrawn group, it does.

Unless I've misread this or am having a brain fart,(and I'm increasingly having these) I believe you may not be on the ball here. Only Naval a/c that come as the ship arrives don't need pool aircraft, the rest do ...

quote:

Considering the Japanese Industry, especially the aircrafts. When a squadron is coming as a reinforcement, I have to have that many aircrafts in the pool, so it can be delivered to the map, right?

Right...

quote:

But what will happen, if I don't have that many aircrafts ready? Will it be delivered, when the needed amount is in the pool? Or will it simply disappeard? Don't think I found an explanation to that yet.

You can still see them in the reinforcement screen, status "forming", once you have enough planes they arrive...

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/20/2009 5:26:42 AM

Shark7
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A few tips here:

1. Pick 6-8 bases spread across the map that can hit the 10+ to prevent spoilage and use them as supply depots. Only run convoys from the Home Islands to these bases, and supply the other bases as needed from the forward posts. You can't always use the 10+ bases, but for the most part you can. I suggest the following as forward bases. Starting: Saigon, Takao, Truk, Palau, Saipan. As you capture the following, they make good bases: Rabaul, Kendari, Singapore, Palembang, Surubaya. I do not recommend Kwajelien as it is very exposed to American carrier raids.

2. Move your ARs, AEs, ASs, and ADs to the forward bases.

3. Convert at least a dozen of the large AKs into support type ships. I typically go with 8 AR and 4 MLE initially, and convert a few more to AR and maybe a few additional AE/AV/MLE a bit later on. Japanese ships have a nasty habit of sinking with relatively minor hits, so having more ARs positioned in forward bases gives you a better chance to save them...important later on.

4. Always plan ahead. As in think months ahead. Transfer engineers to bases in the inner defensive ring so that when the inevitable happens, you already have good airfields to try to fight off the allies with. they can build them up rediculously fast anyway, so you might has well be able to utilize them yourself before your opponant takes them. Who knows, you might get lucky and sink a carrier.

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/20/2009 12:30:44 PM

tocaff
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Be prepared for the Allies to strike with strength in the SWPAC, PNG, or Burma. It's not all about expansion so secure those bases that produece oil and resources to keep the economy going. ASW escorts to keep the convoys alive. I hate losing LCUs at sea so use more than 1 ship to transport them. Splitting up the KB is an invitation to a short game with an Allied victory.

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/23/2009 9:13:38 PM

Sarganto
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Ok thank you for these helpful words of advice.

But the questions keep coming as I proceed with my plan for turn two.
I know I have to keep the Chinese cities garrisoned, to prevent that the HI and Resources get damaged.
But there are cities that have no HI or Resources, for example Pakhoi. I have only a base force with 1 assault value there, but need 40 to garrison it. Let's say I don't give a damn and even pull that base force away. What would happen? Or should I split the Mixed Briage in Nanning to garrison it early on and then exchange it for a smaller unit later on?

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/23/2009 10:23:24 PM

Shark7
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarganto

Ok thank you for these helpful words of advice.

But the questions keep coming as I proceed with my plan for turn two.
I know I have to keep the Chinese cities garrisoned, to prevent that the HI and Resources get damaged.
But there are cities that have no HI or Resources, for example Pakhoi. I have only a base force with 1 assault value there, but need 40 to garrison it. Let's say I don't give a damn and even pull that base force away. What would happen? Or should I split the Mixed Briage in Nanning to garrison it early on and then exchange it for a smaller unit later on?

Just remember that not having the required garrison will eat damage ports and airfields as well. It may also eat into supplies and cause LCU disablements (though I have never personally left a garrison to low to test that theory).

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/23/2009 10:31:33 PM

Mynok
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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Reinforcement aircraft do not require pool aircraft. If it is a disbanded or withdrawn group, it does.

Unless I've misread this or am having a brain fart,(and I'm increasingly having these) I believe you may not be on the ball here. Only Naval a/c that come as the ship arrives don't need pool aircraft, the rest do ...

Twas I with the brain fart. Shouldn't post while ill.....

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/23/2009 10:43:36 PM

Barb
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partisans will damage airfield/port in ungarrisoned base too. repairing them will surely cost you some supply...

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/23/2009 11:27:43 PM

Yamato hugger
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Repairs to airfields/ports cost no supply. Industry/resources/oil does.

And yes, the current version is 1.806. Joe said he would be working on 1.807 after AE went gold, which -- would be -- about -- now.

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/24/2009 7:33:55 AM

bigbaba
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hi and welcome to the hell (playing the japanese)

.

i play the japs in a game at the end of 1942 and since it was my first japanese PBEM, i made some serious mistakes which i hope you can avoid in your game. i just list them here:

-attacking PH isnt a good idea imho. the slow BB there are only usefull for bombardements and rarely sink in the big port of PH even with 90+ sys damage. i would prefer attacking manila harbor. there are 30 or more US subs in the port and this are a greater threat to your shipping then the slow BBs at pearl. try to sink them all and after the first turn, you can use the KB and mini KB to hunt down fleeing allied ships.

-sink the POW and repulse asap. imho, the allied should not make any ship movements from their ports in turn 1. and if you have such a HR, this both nasty british capital ships which can cause alot of damage, are in singapur. use your betty/nells from indochina to sink them both in the harbor of singapur and your invasion of the DEI will be much much easier.

-dont try to get everything in china at the same time like i did. you need to concentrate your troops in china on one front. try to secure N china and then work down to central and south china. and dont let canton undefended in your attempt to capture hong kong. a smart allied player will attack canton (or at least block it) in force.

-get the majos ressouce and oil centers asap and attack in force. i made the mistake and brought too few troops to palembang while my opponent reinfirced the base via air transports so half of the instalations were damaged after i got the base finaly.

-ceoncentrate on few AC types in your build/research programm. you realy should only research fighters (jack for your land based navy fighter groups, a6m5 for your carriers, ki-61 tony with its 20mm cannons and armor against allied 4E bombers and the frances as 2E bomber replacement for betty/nells).

that should it be for the first turn. good luck.

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/24/2009 2:31:10 PM

Sarganto
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Repairs to airfields/ports cost no supply. Industry/resources/oil does.

And yes, the current version is 1.806. Joe said he would be working on 1.807 after AE went gold, which -- would be -- about -- now.

So I don't have to give a damn about damaged airfields at a place, where there is no HI/Ress/Oil and no enemy threat for the next years.

@bigbaba
Thank you for your advice with Manila, PH and Singapur, but we decided to play historical turn one, so PH already happended and I guess the SS will already flee out of Manila. I'm going to do a port-strike on turn two anyway at Manila, because maybe he's trying to load something or forgot to withdraw some of the ships.

In China, I will try a short advance to secure the supply route from Nanning to Hanoi. But the rest will advance from the north to cut off the main force from Chungking. First target is Yenen and I am thinking right now, how I could encircle them best. Should I advance into Yenen and then drive around them with my tank divisions? The problem is, that they will have to march through forest and so on, so I am not sure if they take too long.

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/24/2009 5:52:30 PM

Barb
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While repairs to airfields/ports cost no supply, engineer squads repairing them will eat supply at increased rate (like at building them) once you moved them in.

Or am I totaly dumb believing that bombing airfields/ports together with getting "supply hits" are standart siege procedure?

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/24/2009 6:21:18 PM

John 3rd
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Read some of the Japanese AAR! They will help quite a lot. The First Team is a 2x2 Campaign where a lot of these topics were discussed within the AAR.

ENJOY!

Welcome to the DARK SIDE...

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RE: My first PBEM as Japan - advise needed - 7/25/2009 6:53:08 AM

Yamato hugger
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarganto

Thank you for your advice with Manila, PH and Singapur, but we decided to play historical turn one, so PH already happended and I guess the SS will already flee out of Manila. I'm going to do a port-strike on turn two anyway at Manila, because maybe he's trying to load something or forgot to withdraw some of the ships.

In China, I will try a short advance to secure the supply route from Nanning to Hanoi. But the rest will advance from the north to cut off the main force from Chungking. First target is Yenen and I am thinking right now, how I could encircle them best. Should I advance into Yenen and then drive around them with my tank divisions? The problem is, that they will have to march through forest and so on, so I am not sure if they take too long.

The subs in Manila really arent a threat. Their torpedoes are so unreliable, the only things the allies can do with them is evac troops or lay mines. The S boats and the Dutch are the problem ones and I believe only 4 S boats are in Manila at start.

As for Nanning, dont bother. You are much better off taking those troops in northern Vietnam and heading into Burma or Malaya with them. If the allied player moves across the boarder into indo-China, you get up to 4 Viet Mihn divisions (at Hanoi, Haiphong, Hue, and that long name that starts with an "L" NW of Hanoi in this order) for every unit he moves across. And they are capable of stopping anything short of a major effort on his part.

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