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Need a few pointers on Deployment

 
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Need a few pointers on Deployment - 6/1/2002 5:18:48 PM   
NightCrow

 

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Hi everyone. I have been playing SPWAW for about 2 months now, mostly the scenarios. I am actually quite new to the wargaming scene all together, before this, I played some talonsoft games.

I wanted to start playing the campaigns but find that I am almost clueless when it comes to deployment of units before the start of the campaign scenario.

Can someone please give me a bit of guide on how to buy the units needed to play a campaign and how to deploy them effectively? Thanks.
Post #: 1
Deployment points - 6/2/2002 3:31:28 AM   
Camylarde

 

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From: Olomouc, Czech republic
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I have finished my first campaign battle with Decisive victory of 7707 pts against 707 (lucky sevens) of opponent. In the next battle I have been given only 1150 pts for support units... Is there any connection between the victory points and the support points? Or this campaign is apparently designed to have fixed payments per battle? In that case, should I worry about achieving decisive victories or not?

(in reply to NightCrow)
Post #: 2
- 6/2/2002 6:23:18 AM   
challenge

 

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I can't really address the second question as I haven't replayed many campaign scenarios.

Deployment, however, is a complicated issue. That has been an item of discussion since Sun Tsu. There is no one correct answer and depends largely on what you are trying to do. (Beyond the obvious "win" thing, that is.)

Primarily, deployment is a conceptual thing. Organize according to what you need to accomplish. For example, if you need to cross half the distance to the enemy lines to quickly grab a couple of v-hexes you want to put together a mobile force with the firepower and support to take it and hold it after you get there. Defense is a question of overlaping fields of fire and concentration of force.

Grouping platoons and company level support units is a good idea -- particularly if you have the Co. Commander nearby. (I like playing with C&C on and keeping the squads and vehicles within communication rage is a consideration.) The more "complete" a formation is, the easier it is to adapt to the opposition -- ie: a couple of platoons defending an approach line is better able to do that if it include rifle sqauds, MG and AT support. The same is true of the AT set up as an ambush: infantry and MG squads protect it from infantry.

Think holistically and read some of the suggestions in the Tactical manual downloadable from some of the fan sites listed in the links section of this site. Primarily, deployment is simply organizing your units to do the job you want so you don't waste time regrouping. Consider primary, secondary and reserve units as you deploy; look for blind spots and close them with loner units (like scouts or snipers); remember that the tighter the formations, the more susceptable to artillery they will be -- but too far apart and the units can't cover each other.

_____________________________

Challenge

War is unhealthy for die-stamped cardboard and other paper products.

(in reply to NightCrow)
Post #: 3
- 6/2/2002 6:55:45 AM   
NightCrow

 

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Thanks for the tip, I guess I'll just have to keep playing and keep testing my own strategies to find the best way to put together a force. :)

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Post #: 4
- 6/2/2002 7:54:31 AM   
challenge

 

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Thinking in terms of combined arms is a good start. I don't know what you usually play (nationality, size, mission type), but every nationality's equipment is built for a specific tactical doctrine. For example, one reason French armor is slower than most has to do with the tactical doctrine they used. Since the French were putting their eggs into the Maginot Line, their generals were planning for a static defense and limited use of mechanized infantry. Armor was meant to move with the foot infantry.

The Brits, on the other hand, were building effective mobile infantry units with good mobile artillery support. They were developing a more flexible mobile doctrin and had humdres of those little Bren things to support them -- but they still considered armor as a support for the infantry.

So if you're playing the French, the odds are you won't be able to chase the Germans around a big map, but will have a good force for a slow methodical advance and adequate defensive armor. (I know a lot of people here will disagree.) The Brits are capable of a more mobile defense. Russia tended to large infantry masses supported by quantities of armor. The peasant with a gun was the backbone of the Russian Army -- and remains so today.

Germany developed the Blitzkrieg from the opposite direction: Armor was the main strike, mechanized and mobile infantry would catch up when the armor paused to refuel and reload doing clean up on the way. Then the infantry and artillery would start the next push to open a hole in the AT defenses, followed by the armor which would push ahead. Rinse and repeat as needed.

The best way to build a deploy is to work with the equipment at hand. One military history writer I read considered that the Brits were pretty much equal to the German Army of 1940, there just weren't enough of them in France to make a difference. The same writer said the French could have been if they hadn't wasted so much on the Fortifications.

_____________________________

Challenge

War is unhealthy for die-stamped cardboard and other paper products.

(in reply to NightCrow)
Post #: 5
Re: Need a few pointers on Deployment - 6/2/2002 10:21:16 AM   
bigtroutz


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From: Montana, USA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by NightCrow
[B]Hi everyone. I have been playing SPWAW for about 2 months now, mostly the scenarios. I am actually quite new to the wargaming scene all together, before this, I played some talonsoft games.

I wanted to start playing the campaigns but find that I am almost clueless when it comes to deployment of units before the start of the campaign scenario.

Can someone please give me a bit of guide on how to buy the units needed to play a campaign and how to deploy them effectively? Thanks. [/B][/QUOTE]

IMHO, the FIRST thing to do when playing campaigns is to build a reasonably competent core force, suitable for most situations. when playing western europe/N africa, you will need to be more tank heavy then in the pacific. With that in mind, with a 4-5000 core points, purchase artillery with 1/4 to 1/3 of your base points (incl FOs), about 4 sp AA like M15A1or other AA, 2 companies or so of mechanized (i prefer halftracks) infantry, with one of these engineer heavy, and one company of armor, consisting of a mix of lt tanks, tank destroyers, and perhaps medium tanks. Make sure to also purchase some scouts/ATinf to load on your tanks and perhaps an additional platoon or 2 of fast scout units. The mechanized inf units act as force multipliers because they can swiftly concentrate against enemy strongpoints in a way that pure leg inf can not. They are also nice for ALT-O over-runs against inf units dazed by your strong arty.

I generally spend almost all of my support points for HEAVY artillery, like rockets, 155mm btty, 120mm mortars, etc. This depends on the mission and how balanced my core force is. I might buy some xtra fast scouts, or perhaps some flamethrower tanks, or xtra tank destroyers depending on who my opponent is.:D Or I might buy some mines and fortifications if i have a defense mission. But I still spend most of the support for arty or strike aircraft.

As far as deployment goes, this is very much affected by your mission, visibility, and terrain. Pay close attention to the 'mission' button displayed when your support purchase screen comes up.

If a meeting engagement, you want to place units so that you can seize good defensive positions on the far side of victory hexes by the time the enemy arrives. This means a fast army with lotsa mech and scouts.

If an advance & destroy, you want alot of capable units so you can chew the enemy up along the entire front, especially to the front of victory hex concentrations. This means xtra inf. in the pacific, more tanks/tank destroyers in NA, Europe.

If a defense, you want more AT units and arty/aircraft w/ spotters, mines, and perhaps fortifications.

In ALL cases, purchase enough arty to pound both suspected positions as well as spotted units. Arty was the MOST important part of both defensive and offensive tactics in real wwII and in this game as well. Its alot easier to defeat retreating or routed units than those that will assault you when they become visible.
Make sure to purchase at least 2 forward observers (FO) in this regard and keep them safe. They decrease arty delays alot.

Hope this helps.

_____________________________


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Post #: 6
- 6/2/2002 2:57:19 PM   
NightCrow

 

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Thanks :). At least now, I have some idea on how to go about it. Thanks again, everyone. :)

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Post #: 7
- 6/2/2002 9:44:11 PM   
challenge

 

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For the most part, I agree with BigTroutz, but differ on some particulars.

He puts more into the inititial artillery buy than I do. But like him, I also buy big stuff to little stuff. I keep my core artillery around the 15 to 20 percent of the points people tend to use as a limit, and about half that I put into onboard stuff. (SPA or SPM mostly). Mech Infantry companies (I like HTs, too) usually come with some infantry Howitzers and/or mortars and some AT guns -- so there is something to be said for buying full company formations -- and I can reduce the amount for On-board stuff accordingly.

I use the support points at the start of the scenario to add artillery first. Usually I use Rarity On, so doing it this way gives me an extra shot at the heavier guns.

|Before I buy anything, however, I put it down on paper. Not every formation, of course -- although I'd guess some do -- just the outline. It helps to not forget anything. My usual buy sequece goes something like this:
[list]
  • Recon
  • Infantry
  • Armor
  • Artillery
  • Other units as assigned
    [/list]
    Engineers are in the infantry grouping, additional AT and MG units are in the "Other" catagory along with Spec Ops, Air Borne, Snipers, etc.

    Sorry, I was considering the deployment seperate from the purchase. I forgot you need to get units before you can put them anywhere.

    _____________________________

    Challenge

    War is unhealthy for die-stamped cardboard and other paper products.

    (in reply to NightCrow)
  • Post #: 8
    - 6/5/2002 7:30:14 AM   
    tiggwigg

     

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    Deployment involves two things…unit selection and unit deployment.

    SPWAW is a combined arms game, so the first thing is to have a balanced force comprising armour, infantry, artillery and specialist units (eg recon). Armoured divisions often had one battalion (3 companies) of infantry to one company of armour…so you need more infantry than armour…

    The main issue with campaigns is after a few battles the player ends up with an elite force of super vehicles that is unbeatable…all tanks as panthers and all infantry as engineers and special forces…this only serves to increase the player priority of protecting core units during the battle at the expense of those bought with support points.

    I usually buy
    · one company of mechanised and another of foot infantry per company of armour…the foot infantry advances behind the armoured force to occupy and hold the Vhexes the sharp end of the force captures, allowing the sharp-end to move on…there always has to be enough infantry to hold what you capture, as well as to support the armour…in a campaign this is your core force, but always spend some support points to purchase the armour which will lead your core force (either heavy tanks or cheap halftracks/armoured cars…these will inevitably get blown away in the course of the battle, meaning your preserve your core units, which enabling them to kill the enemy that knocked out your lead vehicles, so they gain maximum experience
    · artillery is attacked as being too powerful in the game…enough artillery can suppress any enemy and allow you to stroll in and wipe defenders out with overrun/melee tactics…this may be unrealistic, by very helpful in winning decisive battles…it is even better now that all OB artillery have had their ammo load increased by about 25%…heavy artillery (150mm or better) is particularly effective because it kills infantry in both the hex it hits and surrounding hexes, which is particularly effective in increasing suppression (because of this you can turn off one tube in the unit detail screen, revolving them so a tube is rested each turn, which means your ammo lasts longer with no real reduction in effectiveness)…a couple of ight batteries are good because they come with plenty of ammo I allow about 10% of purchase points for OB artillery plus additional on-board artillery - on-board artillery is great because you can use ammo trucks/dumps to reload…this is particularly effective with rocket launchers which, when placed beside a couple of ammo dumps can fire almost every turn (it doesn't win friends in PBEM games, but it is VERY effective against the AI which doesn't care)…in a campaign, buy all your OB artillery with support points…consider purchasing some on-board artillery within your core-force, particularly mortars, since as its experience increases it will become more accurate and so more effective at suppressing enemy units when your own are adjacent
    · specialist units in a campaign are best split between your core force and support points
    · have at least one forward observer in your core force, since it will become more effective with experience…purchase additional FO's with support points
    · ammo trucks are always bought with support points
    · some engineers are useful in the core force as they gain experience since they are useful in both defense and attack, and can lay mines and remove them…however in an attack purchase extra using support points, as well as engineer tanks
    · recon…can never have too few in attack…purchase some in the core force that become incredible with high experience…and others with support points that you can risk being eliminated…lead with the support recon and follow them with the elite ones from the core force…spend at least 10% on recon in an attack, both infantry and snipers, as well as vehicles (since they don't use points when command control is on, they are useful since you can use their orders to call in artillery on priority target hexes…they aren't the most accurate, but with OB artillery what does it matter, and you only get a 0.1 turn delay with the priority hex)…recon vehicles are also useful in defending your on-board artillery from enemy armoured cars sent to destroy them
    · MG's are best bought in defense with support points
    · Flame tanks and 150mm assault guns best bought with support points, since they are usually fragile and can be easily lost, and their weapons are so effective that accuracy doesn't matter.

    Deployment then depends on the battle, and knowing how the AI works to circumvent it. It is common in campaigns that you have so many units they can be lined up across the map, so in defense you can have a Hindenberg Line…if you don't have unlimited units, never over-extend your forces…it is better to defend two clusters of VH's properly (as this will ensure a draw while preserving your core force) and crush the attacking forces piecemeal…than to try to defend 5 VH clusters where the AI will have local superiority attacking each….ultimately, deployment depends on how you fight your battles, so it is a question of personal style and preference
    · In defense, you want to break up the enemy attack, so you only have to deal with his units piecemeal...set your priority artillery target hexes forward, with snipers and recon forward where they can spot advancing formations…use artillery to slow-down some of the units and force infantry/guns to unload…always try to place AT weapons in defensive positions (rough/rocks/woods/gullies) where they have crossing fields of fire, so one weapon always has a side shot, combine guns with armour so the guns can attract op-fire, thus minimising the op-fire likely for you armour…place mg's where they can catch advancing infantry in the open and hurt them bad…keep a mobile reserve (armour and infantry) that can be moved to plug a break-through, block an attack from an undefended direction, wipe out remnant attackers after they have been broken (great for gaining campaign experience), or for recovering a lost VH cluster after the attacker has captured it then moved on to smash themselves on the defensive zones you are still holding…and, of course, never deploy close to VH clusters on in nearby defensive ground as the AI targets these in its opening bombardments…in addition hold your fire…the AI will bombard your positions once they expose themselves, so wait until you are certain of your kills before firing, and never be afraid to withdraw to a second line of defense, so the AI artillery falls on unoccupied forticfications.
    · In attack, you need to consider how many turns you have at your disposal, the terrain, the best routes of attack, the weathe, the forces at hand…and the objectives you have to capture. If it is an AI generated campaign the VH's will be in clusters and there won't be any surprise defenders appearing out of nowhere, if it is a designer campaign/scenario the VH's will likely be all over the place and a counterattack could come from anywhere…essentially, plan your attack in advance, considering principal and alternate lines of attack, and deploy accordingly…the key thing to victory is gaining local superiority through a combination of armour and artillery…if you line-up your units evenly across the board, each firefight is likely to be fairly evenly matched and only involve a fraction of your units, while you will suffer excessive casualties in a fight that will last several turns…if you have local superiority you can bring many units to fire in the one turn and eliminate a defensive pocket in a turn or two, then move onto the next objective/defensive emplacement…and with a limited number of lines of attack that are well defined, you can place expendable support units at the front of each and sacrifice them first…using your columns to capture selected objectives, before moving on to the next…capture per turn hexes first, then end of game hexes…remember that end of game hexes are worth no-more if captured early…that said, concentration of your forces exposes them to artillery fire…always keep your units spread-out enough so that artillery will only ever suppress some of them, and try to move them before or after firing, so that any assigned barrage falls on empty ground…in consideration of these issues, divide your forces fairly evenly into two or three battlegroups (one fighting in a city has more infantry/engineers, one in open terrain has more armour) have a lead screen of recon, then sacrifical support armour, then mechanised infantry and core force armour, then soft vehicles…lead your forces with your recon and your artillery (targetting suspected enemy concentrations or defenses)…as much as possible advance no faster than advancing recon, but if time limitations mean you have to rush forward, then have mounted recon units and only move hex by hex, dismounting the recon each hex and having them look around…never move your forward units so far that they either can't retreat into protection or lay smoke, but best of all never have them so far ahead that you can't bring up the bulk of your force so you can concentrate fire on the enemy…in deploying you usually have to make a judgement on where the first enemy units will be…usually, first move, you can advance all tanks to the limit of their movement points without risking fire (this is equivalent to, and so saves you, two or three turns of cautious creep that can be critical at the end of the battle), so place your formation on a road or in clear terrain where they can move quickly (distribute your units BEHIND the start line only when playing against a human, as he will be likely to place a bombard order on roads close to the start line)…how you deploy them isn't that important, except to remember that if a unit is on a road, the next vehicle has to go off-road to pass it, so losing a lot of movement points, that means placing recon units and armoured cars, even half-tracks close to the front, with slow vehicles and trucks farther back…advance your force at speed until one of you forward recon units attracts op- fire, you can safely assume that you can move all units up to that line without exposing them to more fire…watch the unit pane at the bottom right of the screen, since if an asterisk appears it means you unit has been spotted, even if you can't see the spotting unit (this means bringing up reinforcements, plotting artillery, and planning for battle next turn, as well as carrying out recon to locate the spotting unit), in the meantime use smoke to hide your spotted units…a unit can only be spotted by a unit within the area it can view, so turn the unit and observe the terrain it can see (most likely you will have been spotted by a unit in that clump of trees or that building), by dropping smoke grenades in surrounding hexes and moving up extra units to the same hex, you can determine the direction the spotting unit is in..

    (in reply to NightCrow)
    Post #: 9
    Deployment points - 6/5/2002 1:43:20 PM   
    Camylarde

     

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    Maybe I have overlooked it somewhere. Does SPWAW include campaigns where achieving victory points in one battle affect directly the ammount of points available for the next battle? Either in support points or in "repair" points? I wana know it only on common campaigns, not mega campaigns, which I assume has more different mechanism of allocating points...

    (in reply to NightCrow)
    Post #: 10
    - 6/5/2002 2:18:54 PM   
    NightCrow

     

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    Thanks a whole lot, guys! :)

    All this very useful to a half-newcomer player like me. :) I really appreciate you guys taking the time to make such long posts and explain the points on buying and deployment.

    (in reply to NightCrow)
    Post #: 11
    - 6/6/2002 1:00:31 AM   
    chief


    Posts: 1660
    Joined: 9/28/2000
    From: Haines City FL, USA
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    Camylarde: As reference to Mega Camps all equiptment is pre-ordained for every scenario and you can neither add or subtract forces for same.

    Now with the standard (supplied with the game) campaigns you buy your original CORE force and SUPPORT units. The CORE forces remain with you throughout the campaign from scenario to scenario, the SUPPORT does not. As for the repair/update points awarded for DV, MV or such I will assume that there is a ratio but I will not attempt to verify or state how much. I assume that the better Battlefield Commander you are the more the Brass will give you to achieve your goals. Hope this helps..:D ;) :cool:

    _____________________________

    "God Bless America and All the Young men and women who give their all to protect Her"....chief

    (in reply to NightCrow)
    Post #: 12
    Re: Deployment points - 6/6/2002 3:51:15 AM   
    Major Destruction


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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Camylarde
    [B] Does SPWAW include campaigns where achieving victory points in one battle affect directly the ammount of points available for the next battle? ... [/B][/QUOTE]

    This is entirely the discretion of the campaign designer. He may have set up several options for Battle #2 depending on how well you fare in Battle #1.

    If you do poorly in Battle#1 you might advance to an easy version of Battle #3. Scoring a draw in Battle #1 might give you an easy version of Battle #2 and scoring well in Battle#1 might get you into the most difficult version of Battle #2.

    If you do not like the way the campaign designer has allocated the purchase and support points for the campaign, you may edit them using the Campaign Editor.

    _____________________________

    They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

    Julius Caesar, 57 BC

    (in reply to NightCrow)
    Post #: 13
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