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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/24/2009 9:42:48 PM   
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Andrew Williams
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Take a read of CW Beans "The Official History of Australia in the War 1914 -18"

i have the original publication including the missing volume XII

this is fascinating stuff showing the development of tactics and training over the course of 5 years.... trench warfare for the Australians became anything but a charge over open ground into machine guns.


http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/first_world_war/

(in reply to wilecki)
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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/24/2009 9:56:32 PM   
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GaryChildress
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wilecki

quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

Ok, lets just end right here.I apologize for the WWI comment.I thought everyone was entitled to their own opinion, I dont find WWI that interesting, thats just me, there is no need to shoot me down for it.I'm not interested in Ancient warfare either, are you guys going to shoot me over that?Whats so special about WWI that makes it illegal to not be interested in it?


It's not illegal -- but it might just be unwise.


Why is it unwise? Why are you guys shooting me for not liking WWI?

I'm afraid for the person who says they are not interested in WWII on this forum.You guys might kill him over that.


Really nobody is trying to crucify you for not liking WWI, don't be silly. You have to understand that your comments were not just and you simply forgot to think them through.


Like me I think Osprey was simply stating an opinion as a wargamer and military enthusiast that WWI is uninteresting relative to WWII or perhaps other wars. It's not a matter of "justice" or not thinking through. It's an opinion from a hobbyist. I've thought my comments through and I still think WWI is not an interesting war to game or read about-at least not as interesting as WWII.

I appreciate that in your opinion WWI was interesting. I don't see why everyone needs to hold the same opinion.

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/24/2009 10:01:21 PM   
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V22 Osprey
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Edit:Just forget it.

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 7/24/2009 10:03:03 PM >

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/24/2009 10:11:45 PM   
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jackx
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Nothing's wrong with that. What went wrong, though, is that a thread asking about personal interest turned into arguments for general interest, which in turn led to people feeling they're being attacked for their personal opinion. :x

The TV thesis for WW2 predominance sounds likely when it comes to general appeal, but does little to explain why WW2 does so little for me in terms of personal and emotional involvement. For me, WW1 symbolizes the tragedy of war much more than WW2, but I can't point to any precise reason for that.
I did try to provide some reason as to why I find the 18th century, and particularly its military aspects, so intrigueing - it's so full of contradictions, and still so much more different from a modern world in so many ways, but I offered that purely as an explanation, not as justification...

Edit: Thanks for the edit, Osprey - since I like my (oh so clever :P) choice of words for the first part of my post, I'll now have to mention that you asked what was wrong with not finding WW1 interesting. ;)

< Message edited by jackx -- 7/24/2009 10:12:15 PM >


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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/24/2009 10:19:12 PM   
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GaryChildress
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jackx

Nothing's wrong with that. What went wrong, though, is that a thread asking about personal interest turned into arguments for general interest, which in turn led to people feeling they're being attacked for their personal opinion. :x

The TV thesis for WW2 predominance sounds likely when it comes to general appeal, but does little to explain why WW2 does so little for me in terms of personal and emotional involvement. For me, WW1 symbolizes the tragedy of war much more than WW2, but I can't point to any precise reason for that.
I did try to provide some reason as to why I find the 18th century, and particularly its military aspects, so intrigueing - it's so full of contradictions, and still so much more different from a modern world in so many ways, but I offered that purely as an explanation, not as justification...

Edit: Thanks for the edit, Osprey - since I like my (oh so clever :P) choice of words for the first part of my post, I'll now have to mention that you asked what was wrong with not finding WW1 interesting. ;)


I don't know. You could say WWII was a snooze and I really wouldn't take offense. Part of expressing an opinion sometimes involves making general pronouncements about the topic. I really don't see where all the moral outrage was coming from.

So what are your most interesting and least interesting wars? (in an attempt to get back to a civil discussion of the OP)

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/24/2009 10:24:48 PM   
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wilecki
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: wilecki

quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

Ok, lets just end right here.I apologize for the WWI comment.I thought everyone was entitled to their own opinion, I dont find WWI that interesting, thats just me, there is no need to shoot me down for it.I'm not interested in Ancient warfare either, are you guys going to shoot me over that?Whats so special about WWI that makes it illegal to not be interested in it?


It's not illegal -- but it might just be unwise.


Why is it unwise? Why are you guys shooting me for not liking WWI?

I'm afraid for the person who says they are not interested in WWII on this forum.You guys might kill him over that.


Really nobody is trying to crucify you for not liking WWI, don't be silly. You have to understand that your comments were not just and you simply forgot to think them through.


Like me I think Osprey was simply stating an opinion as a wargamer and military enthusiast that WWI is uninteresting relative to WWII or perhaps other wars. It's not a matter of "justice" or not thinking through. It's an opinion from a hobbyist. I've thought my comments through and I still think WWI is not an interesting war to game or read about-at least not as interesting as WWII.

I appreciate that in your opinion WWI was interesting. I don't see why everyone needs to hold the same opinion.


I never said that my opinion is the ultimate one, it ain't. I only wanted to answer Osprey's comments where by repeating stereotypes he lost the whole picture. I am sorry that you see all my comments as an attempt to force my opinion on somebody and not as an attempt to help seeing some things beyond stereotypes and from a wider angle.

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/24/2009 10:59:10 PM   
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V22 Osprey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wilecki


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: wilecki

quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

Ok, lets just end right here.I apologize for the WWI comment.I thought everyone was entitled to their own opinion, I dont find WWI that interesting, thats just me, there is no need to shoot me down for it.I'm not interested in Ancient warfare either, are you guys going to shoot me over that?Whats so special about WWI that makes it illegal to not be interested in it?


It's not illegal -- but it might just be unwise.


Why is it unwise? Why are you guys shooting me for not liking WWI?

I'm afraid for the person who says they are not interested in WWII on this forum.You guys might kill him over that.


Really nobody is trying to crucify you for not liking WWI, don't be silly. You have to understand that your comments were not just and you simply forgot to think them through.


Like me I think Osprey was simply stating an opinion as a wargamer and military enthusiast that WWI is uninteresting relative to WWII or perhaps other wars. It's not a matter of "justice" or not thinking through. It's an opinion from a hobbyist. I've thought my comments through and I still think WWI is not an interesting war to game or read about-at least not as interesting as WWII.

I appreciate that in your opinion WWI was interesting. I don't see why everyone needs to hold the same opinion.


I never said that my opinion is the ultimate one, it ain't. I only wanted to answer Osprey's comments where by repeating stereotypes he lost the whole picture. I am sorry that you see all my comments as an attempt to force my opinion on somebody and not as an attempt to help seeing some things beyond stereotypes and from a wider angle.


wilecki.What is with you and WWI?I'm not interested in WWI, get that in your brain.Dont tell me whether I lost the whole picture or not, ou are not in my brain.Fine, I like WWI.Happy now? I like WWI, since my opinion obviously doesnt matter and you opinion is law.

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/24/2009 11:03:08 PM   
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Titanwarrior89
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"The Boar War" Get it?

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/24/2009 11:11:09 PM   
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wilecki
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To get this topic back on track:
I find WWII much more fascinating than WWI but that's something to do with the fact that my home country, Poland, suffered so much from WWII. Exactly the same emotional involvement Jackx mentioned above. I won't try to rationalize it otherwise.

For the most of my young life I have disliked napoleonic era wars. Somehow I thought that the idea of men in colorful uniforms fighting in the open field not bothering to duck from bullets was the biggest joke of those times. Now I know how silly this thought was and I am really interested in that era (trying to get my hands on this Chanlder book everybody is praising here).

As for the least fascinating it's the ancient times for me. I never really thought of it until now and the only explanation I can think of is that so little is left from those times and I mean stories, documents etc.

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/24/2009 11:35:21 PM   
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wilecki
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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey


quote:

ORIGINAL: wilecki


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: wilecki

quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

Ok, lets just end right here.I apologize for the WWI comment.I thought everyone was entitled to their own opinion, I dont find WWI that interesting, thats just me, there is no need to shoot me down for it.I'm not interested in Ancient warfare either, are you guys going to shoot me over that?Whats so special about WWI that makes it illegal to not be interested in it?


It's not illegal -- but it might just be unwise.


Why is it unwise? Why are you guys shooting me for not liking WWI?

I'm afraid for the person who says they are not interested in WWII on this forum.You guys might kill him over that.


Really nobody is trying to crucify you for not liking WWI, don't be silly. You have to understand that your comments were not just and you simply forgot to think them through.


Like me I think Osprey was simply stating an opinion as a wargamer and military enthusiast that WWI is uninteresting relative to WWII or perhaps other wars. It's not a matter of "justice" or not thinking through. It's an opinion from a hobbyist. I've thought my comments through and I still think WWI is not an interesting war to game or read about-at least not as interesting as WWII.

I appreciate that in your opinion WWI was interesting. I don't see why everyone needs to hold the same opinion.


I never said that my opinion is the ultimate one, it ain't. I only wanted to answer Osprey's comments where by repeating stereotypes he lost the whole picture. I am sorry that you see all my comments as an attempt to force my opinion on somebody and not as an attempt to help seeing some things beyond stereotypes and from a wider angle.


wilecki.What is with you and WWI?I'm not interested in WWI, get that in your brain.Dont tell me whether I lost the whole picture or not, ou are not in my brain.Fine, I like WWI.Happy now? I like WWI, since my opinion obviously doesnt matter and you opinion is law.


You have to admit that with your first post you've narrowed a world war drastically to some witty comments. A world war. I really don't care if you like it or anybody else. I don't like it that much either. What I also addressed in my posts was your general surprise with people's reactions. As I've said I didn't want to force my opinion on anybody. Please read my posts carefully again.

The thread is about our personal likings. It's best not to try to rationalize them I guess.

Edited: And for the bit about loosing your whole picture, I apologize. I didn't want it to sound like this.


< Message edited by wilecki -- 7/24/2009 11:52:26 PM >


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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 12:21:35 AM   
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V22 Osprey
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Well, I stated that I apologized for WWI comment the first time and that I didnt mean to offend anyone.You guys are the ones that didn't stop there.You guys just had to keep going and defend WWI.And then, after you spend a thread and a half defending WWI telling how facinating it is, you say you're not that into WWI in the first place.I dont get your logic?

You are ignoring everything I said in the previous page, about my apology for comment and everything.You just think I'm a hater of WWI.

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 7/25/2009 12:41:53 AM >

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 1:24:12 AM   
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06 Maestro
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The Liberian Civil War.

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 1:25:09 AM   
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SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

Well, I stated that I apologized for WWI comment the first time and that I didnt mean to offend anyone.You guys are the ones that didn't stop there.You guys just had to keep going and defend WWI.And then, after you spend a thread and a half defending WWI telling how facinating it is, you say you're not that into WWI in the first place.I dont get your logic?

You are ignoring everything I said in the previous page, about my apology for comment and everything.You just think I'm a hater of WWI.


Ack, you shouldn't worry yourself over it mate. It happens on every thread here. A single word from anyone that is not fully in line with everyone else's opinions will earn you a torrent of bitter insults and hate on this forum. I just write off that behavior as the effects of too many people sitting in front of a monitor all day getting no sunshine or exercise.

Check out this webcam of Vancouver today. Doesn't that make people want to get outside and do some mountain climbing or beach volleyball?



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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 1:34:49 AM   
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morvwilson
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wesy

How about this war for the "Fascinating" category. Not a war that gets a lot attention in wargames or US history books for that matter.

Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905

Historical Events:


Battle of Port Arthur (Japanese Torpedo Boats) - surprise attack
The use of offensive mining
A precursor of WWI tactics such as entrenched positions, defended with machine guns and artillery
First time an Asian power defeated a European power in "modern" times
Battle of Tsushima - very lopsided defeat (putting it mildly) for the Russians,helped create the philosophy of the IJNs "decisive battle"
Contributed to the 1905 Revolution against the Tsarist Government
Loss of Russia's only warm water port in the Pacific

Excellent point here. This war also helped set up WW1. When the Ottoman Turks retreated out of Bosnia and Herzgovina, Russia was too badly weakened by this war to stop the Austrians from taking over this part of the balkens, thus setting up the conflict with the Serbs.

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 2:04:58 AM   
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wilecki
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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

Well, I stated that I apologized for WWI comment the first time and that I didnt mean to offend anyone.


I know you have. I wrote you a short message not to take anything of it hard but you've done otherwise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

You guys are the ones that didn't stop there.You guys just had to keep going and defend WWI.And then, after you spend a thread and a half defending WWI telling how facinating it is, you say you're not that into WWI in the first place.I dont get your logic?



First of all don't assign everything of it to me. I kept my tone in my comments. Second of all I also thought it ended at that moment but then you started crying that we want to shoot you for not liking WWI. It was not like that and you're still missing the point. It's not about liking or disliking and I only wanted to expand what you wrote because I felt that some vital things were missing. I am not that into WWI AS into WWII but I won't write that WWI is uninteresting and try to rationalize it somehow. It was a huge conflict and I would be surly missing a lot of things stating something like that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

You are ignoring everything I said in the previous page, about my apology for comment and everything.You just think I'm a hater of WWI.


I've not ignored your apology but you shouldn't have apologized for not liking WWI in the first place. I responded to your next post and then things've gotten a little out of control. I tried to make a point but obviously you took it all personal. I didn't mean that and I never said you're a hater of WWI. How can you know what I think.

< Message edited by wilecki -- 7/25/2009 2:17:32 AM >


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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 2:40:57 AM   
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V22 Osprey
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quote:

I know you have. I wrote you a short message not to take anything of it hard but you've done otherwise.

Well you telling me to cool off when I wasnt even mad was bull$hit right there.

quote:

First of all don't assign everything of it to me. I kept my tone in my comments. Second of all I also thought it ended at that moment but then you started crying that we want to shoot you for not liking WWI. It was not like that and you're still missing the point. It's not about liking or disliking and I only wanted to expand what you wrote because I felt that some vital things were missing. I am not that into WWI AS into WWII but I won't write that WWI is uninteresting and try to rationalize it somehow. It was a huge conflict and I would be surly missing a lot of things stating something like that.


That's nice.So just because I'm not interested in WWI means I'm being rational.

quote:

I've not ignored your apology but you shouldn't have apologized for not liking WWI in the first place. I responded to your next post and then things've gotten a little out of control. I tried to make a point but obviously you took it all personal. I didn't mean that and I never said you're a hater of WWI. How can you know what I think.


Bull$hit.You've been making me look like I'm some heartless person that doesnt care about WWI.I'm just not interested in it, that's all.


< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 7/25/2009 2:42:16 AM >

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 2:46:03 AM   
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madgamer2
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I find that describing wars or battles as fascinating or interesting to be a bit out of place. I think however that this is a personal deep rooted reaction on my part. The reason I think is that to me the whole concept of war is organized killing to obtain something that can't be obtained any other way.
Spending long hours playing a simulation of a battle, or war for the historical value perhaps is also just a deep rooted excuse in an exercise of simulating the terrible thing we call warfare. Playing a game like WitP shows me what war is and that is killing ones fellow man. I wrote a song that has a line that reads "The enemy wants to do his job on me before I can do mine on him".
For all of our great accomplishments I think that a couple/few centuries from now it the scars and wars that will be most noticeable. In our own study of our own world history we find wars to be a major cause of status and change and being the beings we are this will always be so.
Yes Gary there will always be a sort of macabre fascination with playing games based on the worst part of our human nature.....the killing of each other. Pnce again you pose a question about something that we do but perhaps don't like to admit that we like. You make me think of the real nature of my own reason for
being a wargamer, not all of which are pleasant if I am honest with myself.

Madgamer

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 2:53:37 AM   
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V22 Osprey
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Well I'm just kind of annoyed that everyone is getting mad just because I'm not into WWI.Now I know how SS Hauptsturmfuhrer feels.You guys get mad over everything.One word can set you guys off and it seems you guys have nothing bettter to do but get mad.

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 3:04:36 AM   
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madgamer2
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Perhaps WW1 is important because up till then warfare was a sort of my army vs. your army. When gun powder came along the concept of total war was born. We now had the means to kill not just the army's but the people, cities and the very structure of a nation.
We now live in the age of the H bomb & the A bomb and if you think that the danger has passed and warfare with such weapons is not something that could happen .... think again.
The thought has passed through my head that in the study of history we seem to strive better and more deadly ways to kill off our fellow man and we now have the ability to do but will we? Lets hope not

Madgamer

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 3:08:39 AM   
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wilecki
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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

quote:

I know you have. I wrote you a short message not to take anything of it hard but you've done otherwise.

Well you telling me to cool off when I wasnt even mad was bull$hit right there.

quote:

First of all don't assign everything of it to me. I kept my tone in my comments. Second of all I also thought it ended at that moment but then you started crying that we want to shoot you for not liking WWI. It was not like that and you're still missing the point. It's not about liking or disliking and I only wanted to expand what you wrote because I felt that some vital things were missing. I am not that into WWI AS into WWII but I won't write that WWI is uninteresting and try to rationalize it somehow. It was a huge conflict and I would be surly missing a lot of things stating something like that.


That's nice.So just because I'm not interested in WWI means I'm being rational.

quote:

I've not ignored your apology but you shouldn't have apologized for not liking WWI in the first place. I responded to your next post and then things've gotten a little out of control. I tried to make a point but obviously you took it all personal. I didn't mean that and I never said you're a hater of WWI. How can you know what I think.


Bull$hit.You've been making me look like I'm some heartless person that doesnt care about WWI.I'm just not interested in it, that's all.



Beatiful, just beatiful. Let's end it here with your word being last. I mean: Bull$hit

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(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 50
RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 3:13:19 AM   
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SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

Well I'm just kind of annoyed that everyone is getting mad just because I'm not into WWI.Now I know how SS Hauptsturmfuhrer feels.You guys get mad over everything.One word can set you guys off and it seems you guys have nothing bettter to do but get mad.


You should never apologize for your opinions no matter the reactions. You are free citizen with freedom of choice and belief. Don't let anyone take that away from you... especially hecklers on the internet.

As for WW2 being more popular than WW1, for me it's because of the technology and wide range of battles on air, land and water. It was the fastest period of technological progress in history so we saw a lot of interesting match-ups between less than optimal tanks, airplanes, ships and infantry weapons. The American and British tanks were very odd but interesting, much unlike the flat, super heavy tanks everyone uses now. Like WW1, a modern war would be less interesting cause of the standardization of technology in the world now. I noticed this difference watching the 'Dogfights' documentary series which had me totally hooked with the Guadalcanal dogfights and other WW1 & WW2 fights but I almost fell asleep when it went into the jet age.

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RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 3:15:13 AM   
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V22 Osprey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wilecki


quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

quote:

I know you have. I wrote you a short message not to take anything of it hard but you've done otherwise.

Well you telling me to cool off when I wasnt even mad was bull$hit right there.

quote:

First of all don't assign everything of it to me. I kept my tone in my comments. Second of all I also thought it ended at that moment but then you started crying that we want to shoot you for not liking WWI. It was not like that and you're still missing the point. It's not about liking or disliking and I only wanted to expand what you wrote because I felt that some vital things were missing. I am not that into WWI AS into WWII but I won't write that WWI is uninteresting and try to rationalize it somehow. It was a huge conflict and I would be surly missing a lot of things stating something like that.


That's nice.So just because I'm not interested in WWI means I'm being rational.

quote:

I've not ignored your apology but you shouldn't have apologized for not liking WWI in the first place. I responded to your next post and then things've gotten a little out of control. I tried to make a point but obviously you took it all personal. I didn't mean that and I never said you're a hater of WWI. How can you know what I think.


Bull$hit.You've been making me look like I'm some heartless person that doesnt care about WWI.I'm just not interested in it, that's all.



Beatiful, just beatiful. Let's end it here with your word being last. I mean: Bull$hit


It's all cool wilecki.

(in reply to wilecki)
Post #: 52
RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 3:23:56 AM   
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wilecki
Matrix Trooper


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

It's all cool wilecki.


Then I guess we're cool. No hard feelings.

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(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 53
RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 4:14:13 AM   
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madgamer2
Matrix Elite Guard


 

Posts: 1235
Joined: 11/24/2004
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Perhaps a kinder way is to say that not being "into" something does not make that subject any less important, in this case WW!. I think the fact you may not be into something or period should act as a restraint in posting about it. There are many subjects that I am not "into" so when commenting on them I try to be careful about what I say...I still get into hot water.
I am not interested in games of WW! but I know by the study of history that it had a large effect of world history. I have learned that my comments about something I am not familiar with get me in trouble to so try to refrain from such situations.
Whichn for me is easier said than done.

Madgamer

P.S. I am not mad at you if that makes a difference. Your posts do not have that
quality of baiting the forum members to respond as some posters do (no names mentioned)

(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 54
RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 5:12:19 AM   
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Silverdog
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V22 Osprey

I don’t go around posting ‘grandma jokes’ about battles/conflicts. I suggest you don’t either, and that is why I took acceptation to your original post. I don’t care what your interests are, but don’t trivialise and joke about events in history that you don’t understand or have interest in.

(in reply to madgamer2)
Post #: 55
RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 5:50:10 AM   
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V22 Osprey
Matrix Elite Guard



Posts: 1593
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You people are too serious.The whole forum is going against me over such an insagnifigant issue.You guys want me to be a robot, I say one wrong thing I didnt mean to say and I get prosecuted for it.

(in reply to Silverdog)
Post #: 56
RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 6:08:14 AM   
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06 Maestro
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 3989
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OK; group hug.

Hmm-all better now.

_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

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(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 57
RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 6:12:04 AM   
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06 Maestro
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 3989
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From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

Take a read of CW Beans "The Official History of Australia in the War 1914 -18"

i have the original publication including the missing volume XII

this is fascinating stuff showing the development of tactics and training over the course of 5 years.... trench warfare for the Australians became anything but a charge over open ground into machine guns.


http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/first_world_war/



Yep, that kind of stuff is mostly myth. It did happen in the early weeks of the war, then again when the U.S. Marines hit the ground-some folks just insist on learning lessons for themselves. MG's killed a whole lot of men, but a whole lot of machine gunners died too-it was another effective weapon.


_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Thomas Jefferson


(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 58
RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 8:05:59 AM   
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Lützow
Matrix Elite Guard



Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: madgamer

I find that describing wars or battles as fascinating or interesting to be a bit out of place. I think however that this is a personal deep rooted reaction on my part. The reason I think is that to me the whole concept of war is organized killing to obtain something that can't be obtained any other way.



War is a phenomen - everybody wants to ban it, but somehow it never happens. Ernst Jünger (Storm of Steel) once claimed, that war is not something which get enforced from outside, but deep in us self and hence men will wage war till the end of humankind.

Anyway, in regard of warfare WW1 has been a transition time. No colorful uniforms and gutsy cavalry attacks anymore, as known from 18./19. century, while, on the other hand, still no modern equipment. There was no real cause for it, just happened because European nations got bored over a long era of peace. When I was a kid, we had an old neighbour living next door who participated in both world wars and what he told me about WW1 sounded rather depressing. I guess that's the reason, I never was interested to 'revive' this period in wargames.

< Message edited by Lützow -- 7/25/2009 10:38:51 PM >

(in reply to madgamer2)
Post #: 59
RE: Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War - 7/25/2009 7:12:21 PM   
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Zap
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline
06 Maestro said
What is the first thing I see? This thread of course. Why, if I could reach some necks through the Internet I would...just kidding.



Your descriptive sentence brought a smile to my face. As I imagined your hand reaching through the screen of my computer and grabbing my neck. Lol

Zap

< Message edited by Zap -- 7/26/2009 1:18:06 AM >


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(in reply to 06 Maestro)
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