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Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches?

 
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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? Page: [1]
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Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/28/2009 7:14:30 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Suppose I have a tiny base, with port size 0 or 1, and I wish to put supply and/or troops there. Should I use a Transport TF or an Amphibious TF? And what sort of ships should I use? E.g., should I use APAs and AKAs rather than regular APs or AKs?

I have read and re-read the manual's extensive documentation of loading and unloading, but it's possible I missed something. :)

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RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/28/2009 7:23:05 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		I recall a thread discussing this. Amphibious taskforces were strongly recomended for small ports. APAs and AKAs are better as I recall.

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 2
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/28/2009 7:24:30 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Yah. The reason being, with a size 0 or 1 port, you're better off unloading over the beach from an AKA.

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Post #: 3
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/28/2009 7:24:30 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		John posted this in another thread:

"Just to make you tear out even more of your hair, you have to be very careful when you talk about “AK/APs”. There’s 3 different kinds.

An xAK (or xAP) is a typical commercial carrier; it has 2-5 ton cranes, a crew of 30-40, and is in general “commercial” service; cargo ‘trash’ haulers, or passenger ‘slave’ ships. They can carry stuff, but load/unload PAINFULLY slowly unless in a port with “facilities”. Some of these had a ‘deep tank’ or a forepeak tank that carried a liquid cargo (av-gas, kerosene, etc ..)

An AK (AP) is a navalized ship, with 10-15 ton cranes, a crew of maybe 300, integral lighters (LCs), and is designed/converted/constructed to haul military cargoes into harms way. Because of their integral deck facilities, crew, and lighterage, they are “relatively” independent of port size restrictions.

An AKA (APA) is a fully navalized assault transport: 15-40 ton cranes, crew of 340-400, Welling davits, LCI, LCVP, LCM up the wazoo. These are the sharp end of the flaming telephone pole looking to be inserted into the bad people’s … well.

You will need to be very, very, very, very, judicious in your selection of just which types are going to perform what sorts of functions."

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Post #: 4
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/28/2009 7:34:15 PM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		These sorts of differences between xAK, AK, and AKA are the thing I really love about this game!


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Beezle - Rapidly running out of altitude, airspeed and ideas.

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RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/28/2009 7:53:18 PM   
jhdeerslayer


Posts: 1194
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Michigan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

These sorts of differences between xAK, AK, and AKA are the thing I really love about this game!



Me too. I am still trying to figure out all the ship codes for all the other nifty ships we have now. That part of the manual will be dog eared shortly.

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RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/28/2009 8:06:17 PM   
moose1999

 

Posts: 788
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		I've got an engineer regiment on route to a friendly beach on board a handful of APs.
How bad an idea is this?
And will it make any difference whether I make the TF a transport TF or an amphibious TF? (remembering to change the ground unit's stance accordingly, of course...)


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regards,

Briny

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Post #: 7
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/28/2009 8:11:45 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		So in short:

xAK = Used for rear area shuttles.
AK = Used for forward area shuttles (faster unload speeds = less exposure to danger).
AKA = Save these for assault landings, you'll need em.

Same rules apply to the AP class.

Jim

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 7/28/2009 8:12:22 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/28/2009 8:16:28 PM   
jhdeerslayer


Posts: 1194
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Michigan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: briny_norman

I've got an engineer regiment on route to a friendly beach on board a handful of APs.
How bad an idea is this?
And will it make any difference whether I make the TF a transport TF or an amphibious TF? (remembering to change the ground unit's stance accordingly, of course...)



Good question. I'm a rookie too but I think the answer lies on pages 125 and 127 where you compare the unload table (transport/cargo) versus the unload rates for amphibious. There are a few variables but seems amphibious is best.

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Post #: 9
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/28/2009 9:10:38 PM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deerslayer


I am still trying to figure out all the ship codes for all the other nifty ships we have now. That part of the manual will be dog eared shortly.


I printed out the complicated part of the ship abbreviations list and have it on a sheet taped to the monitor, at least for the first couple of turns. I am setting up local ASW/Mine warfare TFs in my first turn and need to keep all the minor ship types straight.

Delightful!


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Beezle - Rapidly running out of altitude, airspeed and ideas.

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Post #: 10
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/28/2009 11:09:29 PM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline 		If you're doing an Amphibious Landing at a friendly base with no or few port facilities (0 or 1) it will help if the first unit you land has Naval Support squads. It doesn't take many NS squads to make a beach as effective as a level 2 or level 3 port.

And if you look around your LCUs, you'll find -- by a remarkable coincidence -- some small base units that appear to be designed especially for this purpose. Starting on December 8th, look around for "[A-F] Detachment USN Port Service Battalion". These can be very helpful if your looking to reinforce the South Pacific.


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Post #: 11
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/28/2009 11:55:20 PM   
AttuWatcher

 

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/25/2009
From: Hex 181, 36
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

These sorts of differences between xAK, AK, and AKA are the thing I really love about this game!



Me too. I love ships and AE's got tons of 'em!

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Post #: 12
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/29/2009 12:52:32 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

If you're doing an Amphibious Landing at a friendly base with no or few port facilities (0 or 1) it will help if the first unit you land has Naval Support squads. It doesn't take many NS squads to make a beach as effective as a level 2 or level 3 port.

And if you look around your LCUs, you'll find -- by a remarkable coincidence -- some small base units that appear to be designed especially for this purpose. Starting on December 8th, look around for "[A-F] Detachment USN Port Service Battalion". These can be very helpful if your looking to reinforce the South Pacific.



These are some of the most important Allied units in the game.


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Post #: 13
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/29/2009 12:56:43 AM   
Jensemann

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 4/15/2009
From: Norway
Status: offline 		youre all talking about the difference between "transport mission" and "amphibious mission" in my aleutains campain i coudnt load troops unless the taskforce had "amphibious" as mission, is this something special with this scenario or am i doing someting wrong?

I was mixing all kind of transport ships by the way as i hadnt figured out the differences:)

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Post #: 14
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/29/2009 12:59:08 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		Amph TF: LCU's in combat mode.

Trans TF: LCU's must be in strat mode.

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Post #: 15
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/29/2009 1:00:57 AM   
Jensemann

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 4/15/2009
From: Norway
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Amph TF: LCU's in combat mode.

Trans TF: LCU's must be in strat mode.


oh thanks, i guess it will take weeks if not months till i have figured out all the small details

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 16
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/29/2009 1:02:40 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		A size 1 port is really no more than an anchorage. It would have no cargo handling capabilities at all.

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Post #: 17
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/29/2009 1:03:50 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		Use Amph TF's to move to all bases with less than a 3 port level.
Supply and LCU's.

If you don't it'll take WEEKS to unload them.

Hint, port size is now more important than airfield size.

You can grease the unloading time with naval support points.

< Message edited by Halsey -- 7/29/2009 1:07:11 AM >

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Post #: 18
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/29/2009 1:21:43 AM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		Nice bit of information
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

John posted this in another thread:

"Just to make you tear out even more of your hair, you have to be very careful when you talk about “AK/APs”. There’s 3 different kinds.

An xAK (or xAP) is a typical commercial carrier; it has 2-5 ton cranes, a crew of 30-40, and is in general “commercial” service; cargo ‘trash’ haulers, or passenger ‘slave’ ships. They can carry stuff, but load/unload PAINFULLY slowly unless in a port with “facilities”. Some of these had a ‘deep tank’ or a forepeak tank that carried a liquid cargo (av-gas, kerosene, etc ..)

An AK (AP) is a navalized ship, with 10-15 ton cranes, a crew of maybe 300, integral lighters (LCs), and is designed/converted/constructed to haul military cargoes into harms way. Because of their integral deck facilities, crew, and lighterage, they are “relatively” independent of port size restrictions.

An AKA (APA) is a fully navalized assault transport: 15-40 ton cranes, crew of 340-400, Welling davits, LCI, LCVP, LCM up the wazoo. These are the sharp end of the flaming telephone pole looking to be inserted into the bad people’s … well.

You will need to be very, very, very, very, judicious in your selection of just which types are going to perform what sorts of functions."



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Post #: 19
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/29/2009 10:30:51 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline
quote:

Use Amph TF's to move to all bases with less than a 3 port level.
Supply and LCU's.

Ah, so choice of TF type matters when hauling stuff to friendly beaches, not just choice of ship. Thanks!

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Post #: 20
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 7/29/2009 10:39:56 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		Its painful when you get the message that the AK can't unload the remainder of a unit and you know the japs are coming

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 21
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 8/19/2009 11:24:10 AM   
Husky_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 7/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Use Amph TF's to move to all bases with less than a 3 port level.
Supply and LCU's.

If you don't it'll take WEEKS to unload them.



Sorry, but what is any reason to use TF's for "transport mission" if "amphibious mission" have all advantages (low lvl ports, no need to use "strat. mode")?

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 22
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 8/19/2009 11:52:35 AM   
Sonny II

 

Posts: 2878
Joined: 1/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Husky


quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Use Amph TF's to move to all bases with less than a 3 port level.
Supply and LCU's.

If you don't it'll take WEEKS to unload them.



Sorry, but what is any reason to use TF's for "transport mission" if "amphibious mission" have all advantages (low lvl ports, no need to use "strat. mode")?


Amphib operations cause losses and you cannot pack the ships as efficiently, i.e. load as much on to them as in transport mode.

(in reply to Husky_MatrixForum)
Post #: 23
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 8/19/2009 12:00:12 PM   
Kumppi


Posts: 209
Joined: 10/21/2008
From: Somewhere between Sweden and Russia
Status: offline 		Amphibious mission TFs are loaded in combat load. What this means is that only 80% of the cargo capacity of the ships (except of beaching crafts) in the TF is used. So it is not as efficient as using a TF with a transport mission. 

(in reply to Husky_MatrixForum)
Post #: 24
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 8/19/2009 12:20:19 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

Its painful when you get the message that the AK can't unload the remainder of a unit and you know the japs are coming


Yes it is; I've got a base force and defending units on Makin but the engineering vehicles are sitting at PagoPago waiting for a fast AK that can get in there, unload them and get the heck back out. I had tried to unload them from a xAK and it was just too slow, and I kept getting the dreaded "cannot fully unload the unit" message...

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Post #: 25
RE: Which ships/TF for transport to friendly beaches? - 8/19/2009 12:32:58 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		And Transport TF unloads way faster in decent-size ports.

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Post #: 26
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