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What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/1/2009 4:11:50 PM   
Chris21wen

 

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For capital ships this is a remarkable similarity.






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RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/1/2009 4:26:04 PM   
scott64


Posts: 4019
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From: Colorado
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4 BB, Repulse, and POW 

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Post #: 2
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/1/2009 4:51:54 PM   
bsq


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So far I have run the 1st turn 15 times - only looking at capital ships...

1. 5 BB
2. 7 BB
3. 6 BB
4. 5 BB
5. 3 BB
6. 8 BB
7. 5 BB
8. 4 BB
9. 5 BB
10. 4 BB
11. 2 BB
12. 0 BB (yippee ), then KB came back twice (4 and then 3 BB )
13. 7 BB
14. 2 BB
15. 6 BB

Historical 1st turn?? Historical AI?? Gonna take some convincing of that.

Add to the above that both PoW and Repulse failed to survive past turn 2 on each occasion - yep it's gonna be a hard war...

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Post #: 3
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/1/2009 5:38:06 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Are those counts you have there including the loss of POW and Repulse in your BB totals?

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Post #: 4
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/2/2009 10:29:48 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
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Runs 1 and 2:

1) 5 including PoW/Repulse
2) 2 in PH, Brits get shot up badly but are still floating on turn 2

In a couple of runs through the Coral Sea scenario (as both USN and IJN) I found the Kates to be somewhat over the top; scoring more torpedo hits in one attack (9) than all of the KB did in all of 1942 IRL (7). The real source of my displeasure was that 23 Kates scored 8 hits with 250 kg bombs on an undamaged Lexington and a couple more on a DD from 15000 ft. As best I can recall Japanese fortunes with high altitude bombing of manuvering warships were no better than those of USAAF B-17s.

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Post #: 5
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/2/2009 11:25:23 AM   
Historiker


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From: Deutschland
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1BB in Pearl but two have 90 float and may follow, two others have 90 fire and 40 float so I'll have to see. PoW and Repulse got hit hard but may survive, not sure, yet.

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RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/2/2009 11:32:45 AM   
Dixie


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In my first run through, every BB at PH except Arizona plus PoW and Repulse 

This time through, strangely, only Arizona was sunk.  Repulse was smacked about a bit but will live, the PH ships are in various states of disrepair and need some work to get them ready to head back to the WC/EC


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RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/2/2009 11:42:35 AM   
Historiker


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I like the great differences that are presented here. We only have the historic attack as reference, but this one may have been much more devastating, too.

Great work done by the AE team IMO!


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Post #: 8
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/3/2009 3:29:21 PM   
John Lansford

 

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My first day's casualty list included 3 BB's at Pearl sunk (Maryland, California, Pennsylvania) and every other one heavily damaged with at least one major category on each ship with 40+ damage.  Four CA's were also badly damaged or sunk too.  Pearl Harbor shipyard is full of ships too badly damaged to risk sending to other shipyards, essentially clogging up that valuable repair facility.

Repulse is sitting in Singapore shipyard right now with 70+ flotation damage and a 300+ day repair time; I don't think she'll be leaving before the city falls.  PoW escaped with no damage thanks to some timely Buffalo intervention.

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Post #: 9
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/3/2009 7:15:52 PM   
Q-Ball


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From: Chicago, Illinois
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I have run it twice as Japan, and both times I sank NOTHING at Pearl. Nada. At least nothing bigger than a DD. Did get Force Z though.

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Post #: 10
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/3/2009 7:33:32 PM   
sfbaytf

 

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Here is my beating I took at Pearl day 1. No follow up attack by KB. No ships sunk, but a few days later I lost the California at sea when I tried to send her back to the West Coast for repairs. The AR Vestal took 1 torpedo hit-that hurts as much as anything else.

Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 53 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 68
B5N2 Kate x 144
D3A1 Val x 126



Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 1
P-40B Warhawk x 3


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed, 10 damaged
D3A1 Val: 3 destroyed, 22 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-36A Mohawk: 1 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 7 destroyed on ground
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 13 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 7 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 2 destroyed on ground
SBD-1 Dauntless: 6 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 2 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 15 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 2 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 4 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 4 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
xAP St. Mihel, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 16, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DM Sicard, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AS Pelias, Bomb hits 1
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 1
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hull, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Selfridge, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DMS Trevor, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 2
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Neosho, Bomb hits 1
DD Monaghan, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AK Alchiba, Torpedo hits 1
AR Vestal, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Blue, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CA San Francisco, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DD Ralph Talbot, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Helm, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


Allied ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Repair Shipyard hits 10
Airbase hits 41
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 198

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x A6M2 Zero attacking from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
17 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
13 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
7 x A6M2 Zero attacking from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
5 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
17 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
4 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
17 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
25 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
13 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
8 x A6M2 Zero attacking from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 plane(s) with no ordnance
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
20 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
8 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet

CAP engaged:
15th PG/45th PS with P-36A Mohawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 50 minutes
15th PG/47th PS with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
18th PG/78th PS with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 63 minutes

Force Z was attacked numerous times-The POW has been severely damaged and is trying to make it back to a friendly port after spending a couple of days at Singapore.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 52,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 17 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 13



Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 4


Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 11 damaged


Allied Ships
BC Repulse



Aircraft Attacking:
11 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
No.243 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Raid is overhead
No.488 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Raid is overhead

Morning Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 52,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 28,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 18



Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 3


Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 2 destroyed, 14 damaged


Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 4, heavy damage
BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 4, on fire



Aircraft Attacking:
8 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
8 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
No.488 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
No.243 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 52,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 21 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 5



Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 6


Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk



Aircraft Attacking:
4 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
No.243 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 3 minutes
No.453 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 1 minutes
No.488 Sqn RAF with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 1 minutes



(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 11
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/3/2009 8:15:03 PM   
dr. smith

 

Posts: 221
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From: lost in space
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My 7 December Hawaiian infant coral reefs:
     BB Arizona, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 4,  heavy fires,  heavy damage (sinks at end of day)
     SS Tautog, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
     DD Dewey, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
     DD Cassin, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
     SS Narwhal, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
     DD Worden, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Malaysian Reefs:
    BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 4,  on fire,  heavy damage
     BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 6,  on fire,  heavy damage
plus:
     BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
     BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
     DD Electra, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Filipino Reefs (both sink by nightfall):
     xAKL Montanes, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
     AVD William B. Preston, Bomb hits 3,  heavy fires,  heavy damage

Totals:
2 BBs
1 BC
4 DDs
2 SSs
1 AVD
1 xAK


(in reply to sfbaytf)
Post #: 12
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/4/2009 10:50:57 AM   
Tomasek

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 8/18/2006
Status: offline
Betty put 4 torps in Repulse and PoW, but I was quite unlucky in PH - only one torp hit. Kate used bombs instead...

apanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 68
B5N2 Kate x 143
D3A1 Val x 126



Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
PBY-5 Catalina: 24 destroyed on ground
P-40B Warhawk: 31 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 3 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 8 destroyed on ground
P-36A Mohawk: 9 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 2 destroyed on ground
SBD-1 Dauntless: 7 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 1 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 3 destroyed on ground
SNJ-3 Texan: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
AV Tangier
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 12, heavy fires
BB California, Bomb hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 9, heavy fires
DD Aylwin, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Hirondelle
DM Tracy
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Helena, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Ralph Talbot, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Henley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1
DD Helm, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Mugford, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Dale, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
23 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Repair Shipyard hits 18
Airbase hits 41
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 205

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x A6M2 Zero attacking from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
17 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
14 x A6M2 Zero attacking from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
18 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
17 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
12 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
16 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
1 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
24 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
26 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
5 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val diving from 10000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

(in reply to dr. smith)
Post #: 13
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/6/2009 3:54:18 AM   
mojoman68

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
Here's a twist. As allied, historical off and no surprise. I set the cap at PH at 100%, that's it. No fleet evac. I've run through the first 10 days 3 times now -trying to figure first moves- and not once has PH been hit or force Z. KB comes in, thunderstorms in area and pulls out the next day. I'll take it, but man is it weird.

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 14
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/18/2009 4:12:35 AM   
hgilmer3


Posts: 530
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline
I wanted to post my first turn.  I restarted so I could turn off automatic expansions.

1 BB in PH sunk
1 BB Prince of Wales sunk.
1 BC Repulse 96%? Flotation damage?

A lot of lesser ships sunk at PH, but for now, and I have not done second turn, I have a lot of BBs being repaired and hopefully they survive.  1 is out for 370 days, though.

(in reply to mojoman68)
Post #: 15
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/18/2009 5:20:13 AM   
Xxzard

 

Posts: 440
Joined: 9/28/2008
From: Arizona
Status: offline
Finally jumped in:

2BB sunk at PH, force Z badly damaged but afloat, emergency repairs underway in Singapore. Prince of Wales takes 3 torps, sys and flt damage about 25. Repulse takes 6 torps!!, but stays afloat and makes it to singapore with 60 flt damage.

Of note-- BB Oklahoma not severely damaged at all, only 8 sys damage after just 1 bomb.


Also-----KB lingers in area for two days, On 2nd day, hits (and destroys) Lahaina, one strike goes in against ASW tf in PH, heavy losses for japanese torp bombers, but no finishing strike on allied BB's. 3rd day, KB moving out hits Lihue with no significant losses for either side. PT boats and subs both fail to find KB, even though it only moved 1 hex from 1st to 2nd day.

It is worth noting though, that compared to another first turn I ran, P-40 losses were low, and they helped a lot.

(in reply to hgilmer3)
Post #: 16
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/18/2009 5:11:08 PM   
CowboyRonin


Posts: 360
Joined: 8/14/2009
Status: offline
I got brutalized by the AI. KB stayed in strike range for 4 days. When they finally left, West Virginia was the only BB left, and I was also down a lot of other stuff, including 4 damage on the shipyard itself. Force Z didn't get too badly banged up; they are currently patching up in Singapore and should be able to get out before it falls (they'll have some major damage left over that I don't want to wait to fix there).

Historical? No. Plausible? Yes. IMO, I'll take that any day. The down side for the AI is that the KB is well away from being able to do anything in the DEI/PI area, because they're 4 days behind schedule returning, lower on fuel, and with more shot up aircraft. I had enough foresight to have the CVs rendezvous at Johnson and stay there until the KB was well and truly gone, so they didn't get pounded.

(in reply to Xxzard)
Post #: 17
RE: What have you had sunk ist turn - 8/18/2009 6:32:31 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline
I can safely take Repulse out of the "threatened" category after Day One's carnage.  She staggered into Singapore and I kept her in the shipyard under priority repair until right before the city fell, then I sent her and a couple of escorts down to Broome with about 30 Flotation damage, 45 System, and 40+ engine damage.  Her max speed was about 15 knots.  Once she reached Broome I sent her back up to Columbo, and she made that port last turn with 35 Flotation, 45 System, and 48 Engine damage.  Once I get her patched up a bit more she's headed for a long repair session in an off-map port...

Meanwhile, all 5 of my damaged BB's at Pearl are still too badly shot up to risk going to the WC, even though it's been over 2 months since the attack.  Arizona is in the best condition (even after 6 torpedo hits!) and her Engine damage is up in the 50's, but at least her Flotation/System damage is around 30/40...

(in reply to CowboyRonin)
Post #: 18
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