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Ok, I´ve got a question - 8/2/2009 9:11:58 PM   
RHoenig


Posts: 89
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Well, actually there are a whole bunch of questions, but this is for another time

After running turn 1 as Japan, GC Scenario 1, I am going through my reports and stumble over this in the joperationsreport.txt

Delayed planes for the aircraft pool:
4 (21) x A5M4 Claude, 7 (32) x F1M2 Pete, 4 (5) x Ki-27b Nate, 2 (15) x Ki-51 Sonia

What does this mean?


I also get messages about TFs not having enough fuel to complete their mission, but when I look those TFs up, they DO have enough fuel, there just happens to be one or two ships (usually SCs) in the TF that can´t reach the target on their own, but there are plenty of other ships, that can supply the needed fuel.


TF 18 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 43 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 49 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 62 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 103 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 135 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 136 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 137 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 138 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 146 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 148 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 150 does not have enough fuel to complete mission

Bug or WAD?


Ralph Hoenig, Germany
Post #: 1
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 8/2/2009 9:23:27 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RHoenig

Well, actually there are a whole bunch of questions, but this is for another time

After running turn 1 as Japan, GC Scenario 1, I am going through my reports and stumble over this in the joperationsreport.txt

Delayed planes for the aircraft pool:
4 (21) x A5M4 Claude, 7 (32) x F1M2 Pete, 4 (5) x Ki-27b Nate, 2 (15) x Ki-51 Sonia

What does this mean?


I also get messages about TFs not having enough fuel to complete their mission, but when I look those TFs up, they DO have enough fuel, there just happens to be one or two ships (usually SCs) in the TF that can´t reach the target on their own, but there are plenty of other ships, that can supply the needed fuel.


TF 18 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 43 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 49 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 62 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 103 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 135 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 136 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 137 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 138 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 146 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 148 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
TF 150 does not have enough fuel to complete mission

Bug or WAD?


Ralph Hoenig, Germany



Working as designed. The endurance check is current TF endurance, which does not take any future refueling into account.

(in reply to RHoenig)
Post #: 2
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 8/2/2009 9:31:01 PM   
RHoenig


Posts: 89
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen



Working as designed. The endurance check is current TF endurance, which does not take any future refueling into account.


Hm, but the TF endurance, as shown in the TF screen, is quite sufficient, it is just a single ship WITHIN the TF that, if it would be all alone in its own TF, could not reach the target.
Therefor the messages are a bit missleading IMO

Ralph Hoenig, Germany


(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 3
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/6/2009 5:08:56 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Any more word on this? At the least the ops message is incorrect, the TF has enough fuel, but one or more ships will have to refuel from the larger endurance ships on the way.

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Post #: 4
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/6/2009 7:22:01 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		I did post a query here earlier, re a similar situation on TFs and refueling but got no reponse.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2230100

I prefer refueling to be taken into account or at least a message that is correct.

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 5
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/6/2009 7:28:19 AM   
IronWarrior


Posts: 801
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: Beaverton, OR
Status: offline 		Just a thought, but I kindof like the "does not have enough fuel to complete mission" message, as it reminds me to replenish those TF's at sea whereas without the message I might overlook or forget. Besides, the statement is actually correct even if only one ship in the TF is holding it up.

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Post #: 6
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/6/2009 11:52:36 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		The message is not correct. It should read something like "Ship(s) in TF do not have enough fuel to complete mission" If the total TF endurance is not enough, then the message would be correct.

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Post #: 7
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/6/2009 1:20:20 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

The message is not correct. It should read something like "Ship(s) in TF do not have enough fuel to complete mission" If the total TF endurance is not enough, then the message would be correct.



The "message" is included to remind the player that somewhere along the way he's going to have to go to that TF and hit the "refuel at sea" button. Alternative would be no message..., and you have to go through all of your TF's each turn to see if you had a problem. I find it helps...

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 8
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/6/2009 2:39:19 PM   
Djordje

 

Posts: 537
Joined: 9/12/2004
Status: offline 		I think ships with enough fuel will refuel ones that need it when time comes. Sort of automatic "refuel at sea" option.
However it will spend ops points for the day and it might be a bad thing to happen near the hostile waters so that's why I always refuel them manually.

(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 9
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/6/2009 2:51:11 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Whatever you say. I think it is wrong, but what do I know? I'm tired of bringing up problems/questions and being told I don't know anything. good bye.

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Post #: 10
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/6/2009 3:00:22 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
The message is generated based on a simple check of current calculated TF endurance and calculated endurance required. As in WITP, endurance required in full voyage (including return to home port). No refueling is considered, nor are any future operational or battle damage adjustments.


(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 11
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/8/2009 3:21:58 PM   
morganbj


Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

The message is not correct. It should read something like "Ship(s) in TF do not have enough fuel to complete mission" If the total TF endurance is not enough, then the message would be correct.



The "message" is included to remind the player that somewhere along the way he's going to have to go to that TF and hit the "refuel at sea" button. Alternative would be no message..., and you have to go through all of your TF's each turn to see if you had a problem. I find it helps...

But, don't ships in TFs like this automatically refuel. I seldom have to do it manually. Or, am I just on too much happy water?

(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 12
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/8/2009 3:28:45 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronWarrior

Just a thought, but I kindof like the "does not have enough fuel to complete mission" message, as it reminds me to replenish those TF's at sea whereas without the message I might overlook or forget. Besides, the statement is actually correct even if only one ship in the TF is holding it up.



It doesn´t have to remind you as the TFs replenish automatically anyway... and you can´t stop them from doing so as "do not refuel" doesn´t work for TFs underway, as soon as a ship needs fuel (even if it has fuel left) it will replenish from a fuel source within the TF.

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Post #: 13
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/8/2009 3:31:10 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

The message is not correct. It should read something like "Ship(s) in TF do not have enough fuel to complete mission" If the total TF endurance is not enough, then the message would be correct.



The "message" is included to remind the player that somewhere along the way he's going to have to go to that TF and hit the "refuel at sea" button. Alternative would be no message..., and you have to go through all of your TF's each turn to see if you had a problem. I find it helps...



but this isn´t needed as ships refuel within their TF automatically. WITP and AE are enough micromanagement, why should I check for single ships in TFs that have to refuel at some point. This can happen with three dozen TFs (or more) every turn.

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Post #: 14
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/8/2009 6:26:47 PM   
Justascratch


Posts: 321
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with Castor Troy that the units seem to refuel automatically. Getting back to the original issue of messages appearining in the Operations Report, if the unit can refuel from the TF it is in and the TF can threfore make it to it's scheduled destination (or port assignment), would we all agree that the message should simply not appear? After all it would appear that fuel is not a factor in the TF completing it's assigned mission.

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 15
RE: Ok, I´ve got a question - 9/9/2009 7:33:38 AM   
IronWarrior


Posts: 801
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: Beaverton, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

It doesn´t have to remind you as the TFs replenish automatically anyway... and you can´t stop them from doing so as "do not refuel" doesn´t work for TFs underway, as soon as a ship needs fuel (even if it has fuel left) it will replenish from a fuel source within the TF.


Strange, I have seen it both ways, some refuel automatically and other times not. An example is an ASW TF (SC's) I had following a Replishment TF that I would refuel every turn (or not- if I needed the ops for ASW) so I guess I'm too new of a player to really know the answer, just seemed like it was useful.

< Message edited by IronWarrior -- 9/9/2009 7:34:21 AM >

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Post #: 16
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