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Stopping Japanese CV Super-TF - 6/4/2002 9:33:52 PM

Guardsman

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From: Calgary, Canada
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Anyone have any idea how to stop a Japanese carrier super task force(s)?

Here's the situation:

Gilli is Japanese, I have 3 operational carriers (in one TF), generally in the area near Aus/New Guinea, Port Moresby has been suppressed by massive air attacks (from Rabaul) combined with BB naval bombardments. My carriers were providing LR CAP for Port Moresby while it repaired itself. Suddenly a group of Japanese task forces sailed past Gilli and came almost half-way to Australia. My searches reported that there were 6 CV's and 3 CVL's in those TF's! Luckily the weather was bad so the Japanese managed to launch only one small strike with no significant damage to my carriers. Naturally, my CV TF ran like hell. The next day Port Moresby was hit by a huge airstrike escorted by 137 Zeros, with over 100 bombers participating.

The problem is that now, whenever my CV's head out to sea the Japanese send this huge TF and I have to run. My 3 carriers don't stand a chance against that group. Any strike that is sent against this group (from LBA) is simply decimated. His CAP over this group ranges from 130 - 150 Zeros!. In four LBA strikes against this group I have had 0 hits and had 3 squadrons of aircraft destroyed. I have essentially given up on trying to use my LBA to attack this group.

Any ideas on how to break up this TF group?

On another note, it seems like there might be something wrong with the Japanese submarine AI. Every 2 out of 3 sorties by my carriers results in a torpedo attack which hits my CV's about 80% of the time. So far, the Hornet has been sunk by a sub, the Enterprise was torpedoed twice (moderate damage each time), the Yorktown was hit twice (very heavy damage, sent back to Pearl), the Lexington has been torpedoed 3 times, each time limping back to port. Note that these are seperate individual attacks, not the number of torpedoes hitting each ship. What's going on here? It seems strange that a sub attack on a TF with over a dozen ships would hit a CV every single time. No matter how many escorts I put into a CV TF, almost every sub encounter results in a carrier being torpedoed.

Any ideas on why this is happening?

Post #: 1

- 6/4/2002 9:50:22 PM

Spooky

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Maybe an US Sub will torpedo one of the Japanese CV :D

American LBA attacks are much more effective with an 1,000 feet altitude level (but with more LBA downed by flak) so keep on sending low altidude LBA with some fighters and you will score some hits on their carriers.

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Post #: 2

- 6/4/2002 10:08:34 PM

Sultanofsham

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Spooky
[B]Maybe an US Sub will torpedo one of the Japanese CV :D
[/B][/QUOTE]

He could put all of his subs in the area and use his carriers to draw the super TF across them. Other than that maybe drawing them within range of a surface combat TF but that would be very risky.

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Post #: 3

Re: Stopping Japanese CV Super-TF - 6/4/2002 10:09:51 PM

82nd Airborne

Posts: 2484
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Coquitlam, B.C., Canada
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Guardsman
[B]Anyone have any idea how to stop a Japanese carrier super task force(s)?

Here's the situation:

Gilli is Japanese, I have 3 operational carriers (in one TF), generally in the area near Aus/New Guinea, Port Moresby has been suppressed by massive air attacks (from Rabaul) combined with BB naval bombardments. My carriers were providing LR CAP for Port Moresby while it repaired itself. Suddenly a group of Japanese task forces sailed past Gilli and came almost half-way to Australia. My searches reported that there were 6 CV's and 3 CVL's in those TF's! Luckily the weather was bad so the Japanese managed to launch only one small strike with no significant damage to my carriers. Naturally, my CV TF ran like hell. The next day Port Moresby was hit by a huge airstrike escorted by 137 Zeros, with over 100 bombers participating.

The problem is that now, whenever my CV's head out to sea the Japanese send this huge TF and I have to run. My 3 carriers don't stand a chance against that group. Any strike that is sent against this group (from LBA) is simply decimated. His CAP over this group ranges from 130 - 150 Zeros!. In four LBA strikes against this group I have had 0 hits and had 3 squadrons of aircraft destroyed. I have essentially given up on trying to use my LBA to attack this group.

Any ideas on how to break up this TF group?

On another note, it seems like there might be something wrong with the Japanese submarine AI. Every 2 out of 3 sorties by my carriers results in a torpedo attack which hits my CV's about 80% of the time. So far, the Hornet has been sunk by a sub, the Enterprise was torpedoed twice (moderate damage each time), the Yorktown was hit twice (very heavy damage, sent back to Pearl), the Lexington has been torpedoed 3 times, each time limping back to port. Note that these are seperate individual attacks, not the number of torpedoes hitting each ship. What's going on here? It seems strange that a sub attack on a TF with over a dozen ships would hit a CV every single time. No matter how many escorts I put into a CV TF, almost every sub encounter results in a carrier being torpedoed.

Any ideas on why this is happening? [/B][/QUOTE]

Not sure about the subs, as I have been pretty fortunate to avoid them most of the time or they pick on DD's/ APs.

You might consider transfering your SBD's and TBD's to P.M. for a strike on their CV's, then get your carriers the heck outta Dodge for a day or two. Then transfer 'em back after you have hopefully brought their TF down to size.

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Post #: 4

Sub attacks... - 6/4/2002 10:52:09 PM

Erik Rutins

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Have you made sure that the DDs in your Carrier TFs are the ones _with_ depth charges rather than the ones that are focused purely on guns and torpedos? That can make a difference, to be certain.

As for dealing with the Japanese CVs - in the "No Midway" scenarios this can be a real issue. The AI likes to concentrate its forces when it has them. Assuming you can get the sub attacks on your CVs to decrease, wait until you have at least 4-5 CVs before challenging this force. Then try to do it in range of your LBA so that you can hit them with at least two strikes per operational phase. Otherwise, avoid them and try to plan operations once you know they are committed elsewhere or withdrawn for replenishment.

Experiment with Retirement Allowed for your CVs to keep them out of too much trouble and have your home port for them set to the closest that's directly away from the Japanese TF. That way they'll withdraw as quickly as possible after exchanging strikes, giving you a better chance to whittle away at their carriers without losing too many of your own.

Finally, construct your TFs carefully. Use ships with Bofors guns mainly - send back non-upgraded ships to Pearl to get them equipped with Oerlikons or Bofors guns. Once you reach a full Bofors US Air Combat TF, you can get rid of quite a lot of the Japanese planes with your flak alone.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 5

Dealing with Jap CV's - 6/4/2002 11:16:59 PM

Gabby

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You didn't mention what Scen you are playing, or the date, so I'm not sure if this will be relevent, but here goes...

You might try a hittin him where he ain't stragerty. If he is making life hard around NG, look at the Eastern Solomons, If he occopies Lunga, send you carriers there to pound on the troops there. If Lunga is unoccopied, then see if you can send some troops there, covered by your carriers.

Either move might serve to draw the Jap CV's away from PM, and allow them to rebuild the base, or to allow you to use the LBA there to smash any invasion force that approaches.

He might also split his carriers, to cover both areas, allowing you to fight him in a more even battle.

I'm sure that I don't have to mention that you should be sure to keep your carriers out of range of his LBA.

I Hope this might help some.

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Post #: 6

- 6/5/2002 12:03:07 AM

thantis

Posts: 185
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From: Cooksville, MD
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A good rule of thumb for utilizing American carriers through the end of 1942 is to try to keep the TF's southeast of NG & south of Guadalcanal (for each side of the board). This keeps your carriers within LBA range and pulls the Jap carriers south away from their own support.

And single US carrier forces are especially vulnerable in the early campaign phases due to lack of pilot experience (try to keep at least two together, with CAP set to 80%).

You can also vector in your submarines around probable operational areas & chokepoints to attempt to get in a few torpedo strikes before becoming engaged yourself.

If you have enough ASW aircraft flying around, you may also get a decent idea where the AI is concentrating their subs. Don't be afraid to take the long way around if it means a less-likely chance of a sub interception.

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Post #: 7

- 6/5/2002 12:25:34 AM

Wilhammer

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Hitting them were they ain't is a very good tactic to use.

The best role you can use a CV for is NOT to hunt down other CVs (leave this only for when you outnumber them or you hold a TREMENDOUS local advantage).

Say you find your "friendly" neighborhood Jap CV TF in the South Solomons Sea or even in the Coral Sea.

What should you do?

Why, go around the Solomon's, and hit 'em in the Rear.

Sink or damage enough Tankers, and you don't have much of an enemy CV problem.

A CV against a Surface Force is DEADLY, and Torpedoe Bombers against Tankers, APs and AKs is highly entertaining to watch when the Combat Animation Screen is set at .5 seconds.

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Post #: 8

- 6/5/2002 1:28:13 AM

Guardsman

Posts: 162
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I am playing #17 and the date is early August. Using the "hit-em where they ain't" strategy is only partially successful. I am finding that his carriers stay grouped all the time. If I head towards Guadalcanal, he sends all his carriers after me, meaning I have to clear out PDQ, if I head west his carriers head west. I have done a lot of running around trying to avoid his carrier concentration. Essentially, it means that I am unable to mount effective operations anywhere.

It also means that wherever he sends his carriers he swamps any LBA I have.

The end result is that the Japanese have the initiative and I am on total defence.

My feeling is that I should dock the carriers and deal with the sub threat first since it is too dangerous to move the carriers (I've already lost one and had one put out of action for a while). Now the question is how to get ASW aircraft to attack subs. I know they will if they carry bombs instead of torpedoes. Is it possible to change the default weapons load during the game?

Overall, the situation is quite bad. I am having visions of 9 nine enemy carriers deciding to visit Noumea while my carriers are waiting out the sub threat. Can anyone say Pearl Harbour?

BTW: Great game so far although I am developing bald spots from pulling out my hair.

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Post #: 9

- 6/5/2002 2:38:25 AM

sw30

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Another option is to stick all your fighters (even the Wirraways) in PM, set them on 90% cap, then stick your CVs in PM, with all your fighters on 90% cap. and wait for their strikes. Don't worry about Aviation support 1-2 turns won't cause that much damage.

Between the 200 or so fighters and your flak, you should get rid of most of their Kates and Vals. If the IJN do not retire then, transfer some fighters out, and your bombers in, then send your CVTF after the IJN. Remember to lower your CAP%.

Jeff

[Edit: **** typos]

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Post #: 10

- 6/5/2002 3:13:06 AM

Wilhammer

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You know...

in the real war, the Japanese forgot about concentration of forces, and spread thmselves all over the place, inviting a defeat in detail by inferior forces (though breaking the code was a big help as well).

The PM pile up is an interesting idea....

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Post #: 11

The PM Pileup... - 6/5/2002 5:24:55 AM

von Murrin

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Heh, good name for it. :)

Let me assure you that this works. Rarely will I engage in CV combat before Oct/Nov '42 if I can help it. I used the "pile up" strategy to astonishing effect once.

The difference was that I did it at Irau, where I had about 4 F4 AG's and 2 P-38 AG's. I put my six CV's (don't lose 'em) there also, and set all my fighters to 90% CAP. When it was all said and done, I'd sunk a couple CV's and CVL's, but only after I'd shot down almost their entire a/c complement, and chased the survivors all the way to Truk.

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Post #: 12

- 6/5/2002 5:57:07 AM

Philbill1

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I have taken out 4 Jap CV's and 3 CVL for the loss of one CV so I control the seas quite well. I also have gone for the Port Moresby pileup having 500+ aircraft there. Wirraways are good at Naval attack but suck as fighters as do most FB. I also have the great Lunga pileup with 700+ aircraft stationed there!.
Phil

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Post #: 13

- 6/5/2002 7:19:37 AM

Mark W Carver

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From: South-central PA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Philbill1
I have taken out 4 Jap CV's and 3 CVL for the loss of one CV so I control the seas quite well. I also have gone for the Port Moresby pileup having 500+ aircraft there. Wirraways are good at Naval attack but suck as fighters as do most FB. I also have the great Lunga pileup with 700+ aircraft stationed there!.[/QUOTE]

A word of caution, exceeding airfield capacity can be bad for you. If the number of aircraft on a base is greater than the airfield size times 50, than any given air mission is reduced by 25%. If the number of aircraft on a base is greater than the airfield size times 100, than any given air mission is reduced by a second 25%.

Check rule 17.3, on pages 104-105 in the manual.

:eek:

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Post #: 14

- 6/5/2002 7:22:01 AM

Nikademus

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wilhammer
[B]You know...

in the real war, the Japanese forgot about concentration of forces, and spread thmselves all over the place, inviting a defeat in detail by inferior forces (though breaking the code was a big help as well).

The PM pile up is an interesting idea.... [/B][/QUOTE]

Not when it came to the Fleet carriers. Midway was a partial exception because Yamamotto thought he had the element of suprise and decided to send one carrier to the Aleutians to confuse the US. He and the rest of the IJN staff also erroniously thought that the Yorktown had been confirmed as sunk so felt they already had a sufficient edge in carrier power

Had Shokaku and Zuikaku been available, they'd have certainly been with the 1st carrier striking force

After the Midway disaster when Japan knew they could at best hope for even odds, they tried to get "clever" such as using the small Ryujo as "bait" to hopefully get their opponents to overcommit and leave themselves open to a counter-attack.

As such the Hypo "No Midway" campaign is arguably the most interesting, certainly the most challenging from the US side of things as it shows, often with devastating results, what the Japanese might have acomplished had they not lost the creme of their carrier aviation, and four irreplacable fleet carriers, all in one battle out in the middle of the Central Pacific. (i'm certianly having fun with them and it's only July of 42! :) )

As for suggestions on countering this, i'd say your suggestion is the best course for the US although IJN counter-moves might force the Allied hand via an offensive at one or more of the key bases to force an auto victory.

With such strong and more immediately available IJN carrier resources, the US player will have to be very very cautious in the employment of his carriers. Playing the Japanese game and coming out for a shootout at the OK corral will, more times than not, only favor an outcome for the Japanese, even if only in the short term.

Though i'm only fighting the AI in my current campaign, the consequences of facing this Japanese gambit on their terms, taken to it's extreme (five lost USN carriers including two from the ahistorical "Coral Sea" battle i fought at the very beginning) has given my forces complete initiative in the entire region.

We are inwincible! ;)

From here we cant see those Essex class carriers building.

(

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Post #: 15

- 6/5/2002 7:56:30 AM

Guardsman

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quote:

I also have gone for the Port Moresby pileup having 500+ aircraft there. Wirraways are good at Naval attack but suck as fighters as do most FB. I also have the great Lunga pileup with 700+ aircraft stationed there!.

Are we playing the same game!? I don't even have half that amount of aircraft in the entire theater!

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Post #: 16

- 6/5/2002 8:01:30 AM

Sultanofsham

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Guardsman
[B]

Are we playing the same game!? I don't even have half that amount of aircraft in the entire theater! [/B][/QUOTE]

What month you are in might have something to do with it.

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Post #: 17

- 6/5/2002 8:10:33 AM

Didz

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Guardsman
[B]I am playing #17 and the date is early August. Using the "hit-em where they ain't" strategy is only partially successful. I am finding that his carriers stay grouped all the time. If I head towards Guadalcanal, he sends all his carriers after me, meaning I have to clear out PDQ, if I head west his carriers head west. I have done a lot of running around trying to avoid his carrier concentration. Essentially, it means that I am unable to mount effective operations anywhere. [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm doing #17 as USN also.

My basic strategy has been to preserve my surface forces and let the IJN smash themselves against my LBA's.

I let them have Guadacanal as I couldn't defend it without major losses and concentrated on turning New Guinea into a stone frigate.

Every fighter squadron except the Wirraways went to Port Moresby and the bombers were withdrawn. Gilli Gilli was garisoned by the entire 7th Aus Div. and is now a Lvl 2 Airfield. Buna was garissoned and developed into a fighter base.

Dakota's keep Buna, Wae and Gilli supplied constantly by air.

The IJN have worn themselves down trying to break the fighter cover on these bases. Most attacks are lucky if they can muster a dozen Betty's now their loses have been so heavy. Also my fighter pilots are getting plenty of expereince.

As the heat has died down I have added some long range bombers to Port Morseby and these now alternate between sinking supply convoys trying to get to Lae and bombing the port itself.

My CV's are still intact (I currently have 4). These I limit to quick hit and run strikes against IJN supply convoys heading down the slot to reinforce Guadacanal. (Iron Bottom sound is earning its name in my game). So far the IJN have been unable to get enough supplies through to develop Lunga or Tulagi. However, any sign of IJN CV's and my carriers run for Noumea.

My advice to you, for whats its worth is:

Top priority is to get PM operational again which means getting supplies through. Use your dakota's if nothing else can make it. Place as many fighters at PM as you can operate bearing in mind Av Sup and Airfield size. Put them on Long Range CAP so they will help cover any nearby ships and try and get some supply convoys through once the number of Betty's drops so you don't lose too many ships (check their escort has AA capability).

Get your CV's out of there if you can and use them to lure the IJN CV's east towards Guadacanal so that they are kept out of the way while you rebuild New Guinea. If the CV's wander back towards PM just sink a few AP's or bomb Lunga to get their attention again.

If its not too late try and land a garrison at Gilli Gilli but don't take any major risks. Given the situation you need to preserve your forces and keep the IJN busy until your reinforcements arrive.

Oh! and check your LBA's along the East Coast and make sure your bombers are stationed at the bases that make the most of their respective ranges. For instance you don't need B17's at CooksTown because they can reach New Guinea from Cairns.

Jap Subs>

Make sure your you keep your ASW forces at sea on patrol to build up their expereince levels. Check that the DD's you use as escorts have ASW capability. Lay mines around your harbour entrances to discourage subs from sitting on your doorstep. Give as good as you get by making sure your subs are sitting outside their busiest harbours.

Don't worry too much about LBA air loses, your planes can be replaced easier than theirs and your pilots aren't as expereinced as theirs. You can afford to lose both they can't. However, don't let a carrier go down with its planes on, if it looks like it might be sunk get them off quick if they go down with the ship they can't be replaced.

I should point out that this is my 7th attempt to make this work so I don't guarantee anything:D

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Post #: 18

- 6/5/2002 8:38:27 AM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
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From: Alien spacecraft
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Didz
[B]

I'm doing #17 as USN also.

My basic strategy has been to preserve my surface forces and let the IJN smash themselves against my LBA's.

I let them have Guadacanal as I couldn't defend it without major losses and concentrated on turning New Guinea into a stone frigate.

Every fighter squadron except the Wirraways went to Port Moresby and the bombers were withdrawn. Gilli Gilli was garisoned by the entire 7th Aus Div. and is now a Lvl 2 Airfield. Buna was garissoned and developed into a fighter base.

Dakota's keep Buna, Wae and Gilli supplied constantly by air.

The IJN have worn themselves down trying to break the fighter cover on these bases. Most attacks are lucky if they can muster a dozen Betty's now their loses have been so heavy. Also my fighter pilots are getting plenty of expereince.

As the heat has died down I have added some long range bombers to Port Morseby and these now alternate between sinking supply convoys trying to get to Lae and bombing the port itself.

My CV's are still intact (I currently have 4). These I limit to quick hit and run strikes against IJN supply convoys heading down the slot to reinforce Guadacanal. (Iron Bottom sound is earning its name in my game). So far the IJN have been unable to get enough supplies through to develop Lunga or Tulagi. However, any sign of IJN CV's and my carriers run for Noumea.

My advice to you, for whats its worth is:

Top priority is to get PM operational again which means getting supplies through. Use your dakota's if nothing else can make it. Place as many fighters at PM as you can operate bearing in mind Av Sup and Airfield size. Put them on Long Range CAP so they will help cover any nearby ships and try and get some supply convoys through once the number of Betty's drops so you don't lose too many ships (check their escort has AA capability).

Get your CV's out of there if you can and use them to lure the IJN CV's east towards Guadacanal so that they are kept out of the way while you rebuild New Guinea. If the CV's wander back towards PM just sink a few AP's or bomb Lunga to get their attention again.

If its not too late try and land a garrison at Gilli Gilli but don't take any major risks. Given the situation you need to preserve your forces and keep the IJN busy until your reinforcements arrive.

Oh! and check your LBA's along the East Coast and make sure your bombers are stationed at the bases that make the most of their respective ranges. For instance you don't need B17's at CooksTown because they can reach New Guinea from Cairns.

Jap Subs>

Make sure your you keep your ASW forces at sea on patrol to build up their expereince levels. Check that the DD's you use as escorts have ASW capability. Lay mines around your harbour entrances to discourage subs from sitting on your doorstep. Give as good as you get by making sure your subs are sitting outside their busiest harbours.

Don't worry too much about LBA air loses, your planes can be replaced easier than theirs and your pilots aren't as expereinced as theirs. You can afford to lose both they can't. However, don't let a carrier go down with its planes on, if it looks like it might be sunk get them off quick if they go down with the ship they can't be replaced.

I should point out that this is my 7th attempt to make this work so I don't guarantee anything:D [/B][/QUOTE]

How many squadrons are we talking here? I noticed that UV does not have restrictions on the total number of groups/squadrons that a base can have but that if the total number exceeds the airfield capacity based on size that there is a operational penalty.

From what it sounds like here (500+ aircraft???!!) is this not the case?

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Post #: 19

a suggestion - 6/5/2002 8:42:55 AM

brisd

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Scenario 17 as the allies appears to be one of the hardest for them as it is AHISTORICAL. If you are learning the game, seems more sensible to take an easier scenario, learn how to sink those carriers and then progress up the chain. As the Japanese in my scenario 17 historical settings vs AI I have lost one CVL and sank or disabled all the USN carriers. I took that side because I was learning the game and wanted to have an easier play to make my mistakes and have a superior force the first time. I plan to play all the scenarios, eventually from both sides and of course PBEM too once this thing is patched. At 1 or 2 day turns, UV should provide at least 5 or 6 years of play. Not bad for $50. :p

In fact the only thing that will get me to stop will probably be WITP, the game I REALLY WANT! :D

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Post #: 20

- 6/5/2002 12:08:43 PM

Guardsman

Posts: 162
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From: Calgary, Canada
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Well guys, the inevitable has happened. First the Japanese siezed Gilli Gilli (destroying an Aussie division in the process), then they got Zeros and Betty's onto the island. The very next week my 3 CV TF was run down by the Japanese carriers. Not much I could do against a CAP of 148 Zeros. I did manage to get a torpedo into Shokaku, but it didn't sink. No other hits on any Japanese ships. All three of my carriers went down in the first Japanese strike (the Enterprise took 5 bomb hits and 6 torpedoes), along with their aircraft.

I think the game is essentially over at this point. Betty's are now raiding Australia, Guadalcanal was taken yesterday (gametime) and I have no carriers in play (Yorktown has still not been released from Pearl).

It's been fun though. I have whole new set of theories to try out next time.

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Post #: 21

- 6/5/2002 3:52:23 PM

Didz

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From: UK
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nikademus
[B]

How many squadrons are we talking here? I noticed that UV does not have restrictions on the total number of groups/squadrons that a base can have but that if the total number exceeds the airfield capacity based on size that there is a operational penalty.

From what it sounds like here (500+ aircraft???!!) is this not the case? [/B][/QUOTE]

Coo! I wish. I don't think the Allies have 500+ planes in #17 let alone 500+ fighters.

In my game Port Moresby has been developed into a level 5 airfield so I think that means it can handle 250 planes without operational penalty. However, it only has 76 AV Sup available (currently 69 due to runway damage).

I have made a command decision to overload their AV Sup and I actually have 137 aircraft stationed at the base. But the original fighter force consisted of two squadrons of Kittihawks and two squadrons of Airocobra's about 48 planes.

Once Gilli Gilli built a fighter strip I transferred the two Kittihawk squadrons there and replaced them with the Maurader Bomber squadrons from the mainland and the new Airocobra Squadrons that had just arrived at Brisbane. The Airocobra's were not stationed at Gilli Gilli until it developed a bomber strip as they have a secondary role as naval attack planes wheras the Kittihawks don't.

Gilli Gilli currently has 87 aircraft on station 35 fighters and 21 Fighter/Bombers 15 Dive Bombers and 16 Level Bombers (B26B's). Although the LB's are on temporary assignment there to try and catch that damned BB bombardment group thats annoying me.

Port Morseby currently has 137 planes on station 94 Fighter Bombers 35 Level Bombers (B26B's) and 8 Recon planes normally assigned to Naval Search duties.

On the mainland the deployment is as follows:

Cooktown: 80 Level Bombers (Beaufort; B25D; Hudson, Havoc) The Hudson's are on Naval/Ground Attack the rest are on ASW duties.

Cairns: 55 planes 7 Level Bombers (B17E) 36 Transports (Dakota's) 12 Patrol Planes (PBY)

Townsville: 23 Planes 11 Transport (Dakota's) 12 Patrol (PBY's on ASW patrol)

I'm just trying out level bombers on ASW but so far I've not actually seen them do anything (Alt 100'). I know Beauforts were used in this role but so far nothing. Although the PBY's do sometimes spot the subs.

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Didz
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Post #: 22

- 6/5/2002 5:40:29 PM

IKerensky

Posts: 374
Joined: 6/7/2001
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In my game I lost all my Cv to japanese ( the last 3 quite willingly in fact ). But It give me time.

I stocked up Lunga, Tulagi and GG with troupes engeneer and CD and build them FAST to air base ratingso when the japanese finally invade L they where faced with no number advantage and a tank unit.

Against Japanese hevay CV task force dont use your CV. Send them with a AO/TK force far to the left ( 10 hex or more ) of the solomons then head to the Big SOUTH map marks and hunt there, intercepting anything coming from Truk to Rabaul/SI.

AI like to keep his CV to the same spot while withdrawing at night, so simply put all your Subs in this very hex, you will lose some but eventually rack a CV or 2.

Transfer CV air group to land base this will multiply their efficiency.

Send LBA force from different AB at different Alt.

Smaller groupes can sometimes get through without interception and playnig yoyo with interceptor help that too. Also you will eventually run them out of Ack-Ack ammo faster this way.

U.V is somewhat weird in this kind of thing:
- If you stock 10 AP in a fleet you will lose 3 at max (sometimes 4 but rare ) in surface combat , if you make 10 1 ship TF you will lost 10 of them.
- If you stock 150 or more aircraft in a raid you will lose MANY of them to interception. If you send 10 * 15 planes raid then you will lose significally lower. I have yet to see a raid of 3 or 5 planes to take lose even against 90 interceptor.

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Post #: 23

- 6/5/2002 6:07:40 PM

Didz

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Funniest thing I've tried so far is to use the AI's bombardment trick against their Carrier Group.

Because of the turn phasing and the long turn durations its possible for BB's and CA's to cover huge distances in one leap without risking interception.

So as an experiment I waited until the IJN moved their CV's against Lexington and Yorktown near Guadacanal and then detached every surface ship in the area and charged their hex.

In the real world this would have been a disaster but because of the unique turn sequencing I found myself next morning with most of my surface fleet nestled in amongst his carriers.

A fierce surface naval battle ensued with both sets of surface vessels destroying each other following which the IJN CV's ran for it.

I once tried something similar with the CAW Pearl Harbour Scenario. I chose the option that allows the US Battleship fleet to begin the scenario at sea and tried to charge down the IJN carrier force. It didn't work in fact it reminded me of Agincourt with my BB's in the role of the French Knights. I think the final losses were even heavier than at the actual battle.

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Post #: 24

lol - 6/5/2002 6:58:17 PM

Philbill1

Posts: 41
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From: UK
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I am playing the main campaign as allies with no Midway and its now Jan 43.
The only problem with the large number of planes is the supply.
Lunga alone is up at over 30000 required.
The Japs dont dare come near my bases during the day. The AI has "learned " that if it does its ships visit Davey Jones' locker :D
Also if you use level bombers correctly they are lethal.
Phil

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Post #: 25

- 6/5/2002 9:20:20 PM

Guardsman

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From: Calgary, Canada
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Strange. In my game, over four months of constantly using level bombers to attack ships I don't think I hit a single one. All the bombers were set to attack at 100'. Similarly, I had torpedo bombers at PM that usually just sat around and watched Japanese ships moving around. They did actually launch a strike or two but never managed to hit anything bigger than a PC. In fact, based on my experience so far, I'd say don't bother with using level bombers at all. They seemed to be pretty useless for anything. Out of two squadrons of 12 B-17's each, they only ever managed to send 3 aircraft for a strike on Gilli. I must have been doing something wrong somewhere. The Hudsons were slightly better, usually managing to get 6 aircraft into the air.

I guess we'll see what happens in the next game.

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Post #: 26

- 6/5/2002 9:40:53 PM

Didz

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Guardsman
[B]Strange. In my game, over four months of constantly using level bombers to attack ships I don't think I hit a single one. All the bombers were set to attack at 100'. Similarly, I had torpedo bombers at PM that usually just sat around and watched Japanese ships moving around. They did actually launch a strike or two but never managed to hit anything bigger than a PC. In fact, based on my experience so far, I'd say don't bother with using level bombers at all. They seemed to be pretty useless for anything. Out of two squadrons of 12 B-17's each, they only ever managed to send 3 aircraft for a strike on Gilli. I must have been doing something wrong somewhere. The Hudsons were slightly better, usually managing to get 6 aircraft into the air.

I guess we'll see what happens in the next game. [/B][/QUOTE]

Try increasing the height to 1000'. I can't swear to it but I don't think LB's drop bombs at 100' of if they do they don't arm themselves before they hit. Certainly my FB's wouldn't drop bombs at 100' prefering to use their machne guns.

BTW: I know what you mean about the B17's. I'm convinced the crews have forgotten there's a war on. As you say the Hudson's are much better (Aussie pilots of course). I'm actually wondering if there some sort of gliche with the B17's because they for a while they made regular attacks on Lae and then they just stopped and haven't taken off since.

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Post #: 27

- 6/5/2002 10:11:34 PM

elmo3

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Planes flying a naval mission at 100' will skip bomb and strafe. It's in section 11.11 of the manual.

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Post #: 28

- 6/6/2002 1:12:21 AM

Guardsman

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Elmo:

That what it says, I've just never seen them actually do it. I have seen P40's try to strafe a BB, but I've never seen a level bomber (B-17, A-20, Hudson.....) ever drop a bomb from 100'.

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Post #: 29

- 6/6/2002 3:01:29 AM

dgaad

Posts: 864
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From: Hockeytown
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Guardsman
[B]Elmo:

That what it says, I've just never seen them actually do it. I have seen P40's try to strafe a BB, but I've never seen a level bomber (B-17, A-20, Hudson.....) ever drop a bomb from 100'. [/B][/QUOTE]

Your pilots will not skip bomb at all if their experience is under a certain point. Or, they will skip bomb that their bombs will miss by such a wide margin that you won't even see the geyser signalling a miss.

Planes will skip bomb at 100' and you will see geysers indicating a near miss. Unless, however, the experience of the pilot is over 70 and they have not been damaged by flak, its unlikely you will see a hit.

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Post #: 30