Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815 >> If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/4/2009 11:14:20 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
If you had to pick just one drawback of this game that you considered the biggest, what would it be?

For me, it's the speed of the game. I loath the bugs, the bad UI, the horrible EiH crap, the modified EiA stuff.... but above all the speed of the game is the most annoying part.

What do you find most annoying? Or what is the reason people you know who would love to try this game are staying away?
Post #: 1
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 12:40:21 AM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
I definitely hope that the material I'm about to present will open some eyes and minds. First, the misinformation: NeverMan suggests that without his superior guidance, we will go nowhere. Where the heck did he come up with that? It would take days to give the complete answer to that question but the gist of it is that NeverMan focuses on feelings rather than facts. Sure, he attempts to twist and distort facts to justify his feelings but that just goes to show that NeverMan's causing all sorts of problems for us. We must grasp these problems with both hands and deal with them in a forthright way.

Whether or not you realize this, there is a simple answer to the question of what to do about NeverMan's smears. The difficult part is in implementing the answer. The answer is that we must overcome the obstacles that people like NeverMan establish. For better or for worse, he uses a rather disorganized definition of "auriculoventricular". So let him call me unbridled. I call him intransigent. Have you ever stopped to consider the enormous havoc and ruin that has been wrought in this world by NeverMan and his loyalists? I have. That's why I say that if you were to try to tell his apple-polishers that he functions not as a social critic, but as an unoriginal imitator of the ruling ideologues, they'd close their eyes and put their hands over their ears. They are, as the psychologists say, in denial. They don't want to hear that NeverMan accuses me of being narrow-minded. Does he feel I'm narrow-minded because I refuse to accept his claim that he is known for his sound judgment, unerring foresight, and sagacious adaptation of means to ends? If so, then I guess I'm as narrow-minded as I could possibly be.

Far be it for me to waste everyone else's time. I do not wish to endorse McCarthyism but rather to illustrate that we should hammer out solutions on the anvil of discourse. (Goodness knows, our elected officials aren't going to.) NeverMan's objective is clear: to smear people of impeccable character and reputation in a lustrum or two. NeverMan's methods are much subtler now than ever before. NeverMan is more adept at hidden mind control and his techniques of social brainwash are much more appealingly streamlined and homogenized.

NeverMan should learn to appreciate what he has instead of feeling so oppressed because he can't do everything he wants, every time he wants to. It would stand to reason that stroppy Luddites serve as the priests in his cult of heathenism-prone obscurantism. These "priests" spend their days basking in NeverMan's reflected glory, pausing only when NeverMan instructs them to reap a harvest of death. What could be more goofy? If you need help in answering that question, you may note that this is not wild speculation. This is not a conspiracy theory. This is documented fact. I won't pull any punches here: There is a format he should follow for his next literary endeavor. It involves a topic sentence and supporting facts.

NeverMan's activities have created an empty-headed, bumptious universe devoid of logic and evidence. Only within this universe does it make sense to say that 75 million years ago, a galactic tyrant named Xenu solved the overpopulation problem of his 76-planet federation by transporting the excess people to Earth, chaining them to volcanoes, and dropping H-bombs on them. Only within this universe does it make sense to place our children at imminent risk of serious harm. And, only if we shed a little light on some of the ignorant prejudices that reside within his pea-sized brain can we destroy this foul universe of his and serve on the side of Truth. To understand why that affects everyone who has ever lived you need to realize that NeverMan's lackluster sound bites leave the current power structure untouched while simultaneously killing countless children through starvation and disease. Are these children his enemies? The best answer comes from NeverMan himself. That is, if you pay careful attention to his sententious claims you'll sincerely notice that NeverMan seems unable to think of turns of speech that aren't hackneyed. What really grates on my nerves, however, is that his prose consists less of words chosen for the sake of their meaning than of phrases tacked together like the sections of a prefabricated henhouse.

Those of us who are too lazy or disinterested to instill a sense of responsibility and maturity in those who hoodoo us have no right to complain when he and his comrades give people a new and largely artificial basis for evaluating things and making decisions. Macabre know-nothings are born, not made. That dictum is as unimpeachable as the "poeta nascitur, non fit" that it echoes and as irreproachable as the brocard that NeverMan always demands instant gratification. That's all that is of concern to him; nothing else matters—except maybe to muddy the word "anatomicophysiologic". I tell you this because NeverMan has allowed himself to become a spokesman for the same point of view shared by hypocritical smart alecks, morally crippled vandals, and what I call villainous buffoons while masquerading as an outspoken radical bucking the system. If NeverMan thinks his biases represent progress, he should rethink his definition of progress. He has repeatedly been spotted making my blood curdle. When questioned about that, he either denies any knowledge of it or offers unbelievable and ludicrous explanations that only a spleeny wisenheimer could believe.

It would be wrong to imply that NeverMan is involved in some kind of conspiracy to encourage a deadly acceptance of intolerance. It would be wrong because his smear tactics are far beyond the conspiracy stage. Not only that, but I'm simply trying to explain his tyrannical tendencies as well as his immoral tendencies as phases of a larger, unified cycle. This is equivalent to saying that if I had to choose the most headlong specimen from his welter of ruthless gabble, it would have to be his claim that principles don't matter.

NeverMan wants nothing less than to defy the law of the land, hence his repeated, almost hypnotic, insistence on the importance of his contentious dissertations. I am worried about a new physiognomy of servitude, a compliant citizenry relieved of its burdens by a "compassionate" NeverMan. It's hard to spot the compassion when you notice that his victims have been speaking out for years. Unfortunately, their voices have long been silenced by the roar and thunder of NeverMan's operatives, who loudly proclaim that obscurity, evasiveness, incomprehensibility, indirectness, and ambiguity are marks of depth and brilliance. Regardless of those disloyal proclamations, the truth is that in a recent essay, he stated that he has his moral compass in tact. Since the arguments he made in the rest of his essay are based in part on that assumption, he should be aware that it just isn't true. Not only that, but we must learn to celebrate our diversity, not because it is the politically correct thing to do but because we are a nation of prostitutes. By this I mean that as long as we are fat, warm, and dry we don't care what NeverMan does. It is precisely that lack of caring that explains why if NeverMan's plan to throw away our freedom, our honor, and our future is to be discouraged then the wisest course of action is to exemplify the principles of honor, duty, loyalty, and courage. Before we start down that road I ought to remind you that he knows that performing an occasional act of charity will make some people forgive—or at least overlook—all of his daft excesses. My take on the matter is that much can be learned about NeverMan by understanding incoherent factionalism. It's that simple.

Following NeverMan's words left to right and down a page is like following fingernails on a chalkboard. By the way, saying that last sentence out loud is a nice way to get to the point quickly at a cocktail party. NeverMan's legatees don't represent an ideology. They don't represent a legitimate political group of people. They're just flat clueless. One doesn't need a finely developed sense of irony to note that some people I know say that there is a sort of crusade underway, an especially wrongheaded, disingenuous crusade consisting of systematic attacks by NeverMan's untoward trained seals and intent upon increasing society's cycle of hostility and violence. Others argue that he has been snuggling up to self-deceiving splenetic-types for quite some time. At this point the distinction is largely academic given that NeverMan should slither back under whatever rock he crawled out from. Well, that's another story. To get back to my main point, I ought to mention that NeverMan argues that he has been robbed of all he does not possess. I wish I could suggest some incontrovertible chain of apodictic reasoning that would overcome this argument, but the best I can do is the following: If the people generally are relying on false information sown by the most primitive scrubs I've ever seen, then correcting that situation becomes a priority for the defense of our nation.

Sure, the things NeverMan does are wrong, insensitive, uncontrollable, self-righteous—you name it. But if he had lived the short, sickly, miserable life of a chattel serf in the ages "before technocracy" he wouldn't be so keen to send uninformed, antisocial swindlers on safari holidays instead of publicly birching them. Maybe he'd even begin to realize that if he can give us all a succinct and infallible argument proving that he can succeed without trying, I will personally deliver his Nobel Prize for Hidebound Rhetoric. In the meantime, if this letter did nothing else but serve as a beacon of truth, it would be worthy of reading by all right-thinking people. However, this letter's role is much greater than just to free people from the fetters of charlatanism's poisonous embrace. At this point, our task is to fight tooth and nail against NeverMan. Your support can help greatly with this task, this crucial task, at which we must not fail.


(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 2
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 2:40:26 AM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
Jesus, talk about insulting and derailing a thread?? LOL, I don't suppose Matrix will do much about it though.

Anyway, anyone else have an opinion on the ORIGINAL topic?

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 3
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 3:24:14 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
Neverman, I agree. I feel game speed is the most important thing holding this game back from a wider audience.

I think it will get there, but maybe not until 1.09.


(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 4
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 10:14:29 AM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

Jesus, talk about insulting and derailing a thread?? LOL, I don't suppose Matrix will do much about it though.


Jesus, talk about insulting and derailing Matrix and its developers, over and over. The v1.06 patch is about to be finally released and we're moving forward, but still your bashing continues. Same old, same old.

So how's that old pbem game speed going with CyberBoard and Vassal? Any faster, or is it that you unrealistically expect THIS game to somehow alter the laws of the universe so that multiple players in different time zones can do what they cannot normally do?? Oh nevermind. You're just going to keep on bashing away out of habit no doubt.


(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 5
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 12:21:25 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
Hi pzgndr
I don't think we'd need to alter the laws of physics. During peace, we should be able to complete one PBEM game month in one real time day with the following:
1) sim dip.
2) skipped reinforcement (expanded with change build time and auto-placement of small minors)
3) skipped naval phase
4) autoforage land phase (essentially skipping of a land phase)

So during peace, all 7 players might do their diplomacy in the same day, and skip the other 3 phases (with the exception of GB and France, who are usually at war, requiring GB to keep her naval phase, and France her land phase to respond to a pesky British invasion). Things will slow down a little when there are other wars, but that's ok, because the fighting is the fun part. However, for late 1805, a good chunk of 1806 and other peaceful years in the cycle, completing an entire PBEM year in two weeks should be feasible.

Completion of one month of PBEM in one day real time by having all players log in once at any time during that day is achievable and should be the goal.

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 6
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 1:11:22 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

Completion of one month of PBEM in one day real time by having all players log in once at any time during that day is achievable and should be the goal.


I believe this to be an unrealistic and unattainable goal. Even if one game month is reduced to a single player turn, the time necessary for 7 players in different time zones to exchange pbem files will take longer than one day real time. That is not the nature of pbem, and AFAIK not a design goal for the game.

Network play where everyone is connected via tcp/ip or pseudo-network play where everyone is online at the same time and itching to turn around their turn as fast as possible is one thing, but pbem where players have different schedules and agree to turn around their turns in a reasonable period (24 hr) is a different thing. There's nothing stopping players right now from fast pseudo-network play if they can manage to arrange it.

CyberBoard and Vassal are benchmark software programs available for pbem play. EiANW right now with its automated functions, standing orders, and some phase skipping is arguably as fast or faster than these benchmarks. With additional automated functions, combining eco/dip phases and perhaps some other shortcuts, EiANW will definitely be much faster than the pbem benchmarks. This is worthy of praise, not continuous whining and complaining that it's still not "fast enough."

If unrealistic complaints continue to be posted, then realistic rebuttals should be expected.

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 7
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 2:48:56 PM   
eske

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline
I choose to read the headline of this thread as:

' What improvement to this great game would matter the most to you ? '

... and then I'll joyfully ignore any comments and suggested answers posted with the question, so I'll know my answer is fully my own.

(Seriously, NeverMan, if you truely are interested in other oppinions would it not be wiser to phrase your question differently?)

To me, the most important thing of this game, is to make it a game I could convince my old EiA-buddies to join.
That would require a faster game, yes, but most of all, a game you can trust. So first of all - no game stopping or game deciding bugs!
Otherwise noone will invest the required time.
Minimizing that time will of course be a close second and reduce the focus on the first priority. The trust issue is about believing the game will ever get finished.

Now to face that second task ...
(Marshall has accomplished a great deal towards ridding the game of bugs - even if he is not through yet.)

Dancing Bears goal does hold a certain charm:
quote:

Completion of one month of PBEM in one day real time by having all players log in once at any time during that day is achievable and should be the goal.

The preconditions for this is that there are no wars going on. So another way to put it:

A player not at war should only be required to enter one move a month, simultaneously with other players in the same situation.

I believe DB's approach by looking at each phase for simplifications and autopiloting options can brings us close...

/eske

_____________________________

Alea iacta est

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 8
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 3:16:29 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline
I think the biggest drawback is that it attracted Neverman LOL! OK just kidding! I love you Neverman so please "never" leave the forums.

And now for a little honesty...

The UI is an older design. I would do it differently based on the experience that I have today BUT NOBODY had ever done this before. We were bleeding edge. The beauty of this is that as long as I'm alive I can change this in a newer engine!

It has EiH stuff I know. We should have optioned this as opposed to making it a core part of the game. We're going to fix that if we get a chance at the classic scenario.

Slow? That's EiA baby! It is a VERY slow game! If you think the PC is slow then go play the board game LOL! If you want to stay and finish a board game then make sure your buddy has a guest bedroom LOL! Is there room for improvement? Sure, that's where the turn skipping came from and we will continue to look at other ways to improve the speed.

I LOVE the game and all you guys that play it! You have tought me way more than I expected which is the reason I come to you guys for answers to my questions!


_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to eske)
Post #: 9
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 4:32:45 PM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

Completion of one month of PBEM in one day real time by having all players log in once at any time during that day is achievable and should be the goal.


I believe this to be an unrealistic and unattainable goal. Even if one game month is reduced to a single player turn, the time necessary for 7 players in different time zones to exchange pbem files will take longer than one day real time. That is not the nature of pbem, and AFAIK not a design goal for the game.

Network play where everyone is connected via tcp/ip or pseudo-network play where everyone is online at the same time and itching to turn around their turn as fast as possible is one thing, but pbem where players have different schedules and agree to turn around their turns in a reasonable period (24 hr) is a different thing. There's nothing stopping players right now from fast pseudo-network play if they can manage to arrange it.

CyberBoard and Vassal are benchmark software programs available for pbem play. EiANW right now with its automated functions, standing orders, and some phase skipping is arguably as fast or faster than these benchmarks. With additional automated functions, combining eco/dip phases and perhaps some other shortcuts, EiANW will definitely be much faster than the pbem benchmarks. This is worthy of praise, not continuous whining and complaining that it's still not "fast enough."

If unrealistic complaints continue to be posted, then realistic rebuttals should be expected.

You are correct, of course. But, I would add one thing to the mix: An alarm.

If the game could somehow check the location where PBM files (and later battle files, but let's start with PBM files) are uploaded to, and then send a notification to the user, PBEM would be as fast as or possibly even faster than what IP play could attain.

Note that for this to work, there would have to be an applet included with the game that checked these locations for updates. I've seen the HTML for this kind of thing before, but it's been a while. I imagine there are better tools available now.

Also, it would require that everybody playing use the same naming convention for their PBM and/or ZIP files.

It has to be tied into the game, or else it won't know where things are. Specifically, EACH PBEM game would have to have an instance of the alarm applet running in the host system after the game is shut down (or, minimized?).

Anybody care to break out their HTML or Java skills? :)

_____________________________

At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 10
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 4:42:03 PM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline
The biggest drawback to me is what Eske said: The game isn't trustworthy yet. I can't count on it allowing me to complete a game (and, I count "complete" as reaching the point where the winner-list is easy to see, not Dec 1815). So far, the games I've played in have been marred by game-changing or even game-ending bugs.

With the host editor in place and all of the previously-known show-stopper bugs fixed, the game may just be peering out of the doorway onto a full production lifestyle. If 1.06 goes as I think it will, I will be inviting all of my old gamer friends back to play again. I can guarantee Matrix at least a half dozen sales if that happpens, because these guys LOVED the old board game. They're all over the country now, but they would jump back to EiA in a heartbeat.

Speed the biggest problem? I don't agree. We never finished the boardgame in less than a year of real time, and we never made it past 1812/3 either. Playing 5 hours a week it took a year. Playing 24 hours a month it took a year (but that game went further). Etc. As Marshall said, this is a SLOW game.

_____________________________

At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?

(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 11
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 5:51:18 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline
I would agree that we have had some nasty bugs! I take full credit for that! I think we're past a lot of that with 1.06. Our biggest patch to date then 1.07 which should secure up much of the security issues with PBEM THEN we might actually have a chance to code something fun like the classic scenario!

You're right Jimmer, if you're in need of speed then NASCAR 2008 would be your thing! :-) NOT EiA.


_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 12
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 6:33:35 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
Yes, by nature it is a slow game; HOWEVER, do you honestly think the PC version should be slower than the FtF game?

I guess I'm just not accepting that and I never will. My FtF games moved A LOT faster and we only played once a week (if that). The game needs to be faster, bottom line. If you don't want to make it faster than that's ok, but don't expect to attract a lot of new players, as I sincerely feel that it is the biggest drawback of the game (which is why all of my old group, except me, won't buy and play this game, it's just too damn slow).

So, please don't tell me how slow EiA is as if I've never played the game. I have and the FtF (even once a week) is faster than this PC version. I guess sometimes, computers slow things down.

EDIT: Jimmer, you've never finished a game in under a year? I have but let's go with your time frame anyways... ok, a year, that is entirely ACCEPTABLE... one of my PBEM EiANW games has been going on over a year now and we're in mid-1806. How awesome is that!!??

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 13
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 6:38:28 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eske

I choose to read the headline of this thread as:

' What improvement to this great game would matter the most to you ? '

... and then I'll joyfully ignore any comments and suggested answers posted with the question, so I'll know my answer is fully my own.

(Seriously, NeverMan, if you truely are interested in other oppinions would it not be wiser to phrase your question differently?)

To me, the most important thing of this game, is to make it a game I could convince my old EiA-buddies to join.
That would require a faster game, yes, but most of all, a game you can trust. So first of all - no game stopping or game deciding bugs!
Otherwise noone will invest the required time.
Minimizing that time will of course be a close second and reduce the focus on the first priority. The trust issue is about believing the game will ever get finished.

Now to face that second task ...
(Marshall has accomplished a great deal towards ridding the game of bugs - even if he is not through yet.)

Dancing Bears goal does hold a certain charm:
quote:

Completion of one month of PBEM in one day real time by having all players log in once at any time during that day is achievable and should be the goal.

The preconditions for this is that there are no wars going on. So another way to put it:

A player not at war should only be required to enter one move a month, simultaneously with other players in the same situation.

I believe DB's approach by looking at each phase for simplifications and autopiloting options can brings us close...

/eske


Sorry, I'm just a half-empty person.


The trust issue is about believing the game will ever get finished.

Yes, I agree, and to me that means speed. Honestly, I can live with a few missed PP here and there, I really don't care who wins the game at this point since I can't tell if they are cheating anyways or not, I care about playing the game, which means more play/time.

(in reply to eske)
Post #: 14
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 6:41:57 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

CyberBoard and Vassal are benchmark software programs available for pbem play. EiANW right now with its automated functions, standing orders, and some phase skipping is arguably as fast or faster than these benchmarks. With additional automated functions, combining eco/dip phases and perhaps some other shortcuts, EiANW will definitely be much faster than the pbem benchmarks. This is worthy of praise, not continuous whining and complaining that it's still not "fast enough."



I'm also a firm believer in a price/performance ratio and you keep forgetting to make that comparison.

It would be worthy of praise if it was FREE, YES, I TOTALLY AGREE. You must be one of those people who always needs a pat on the back for doing your job.

EiANW is NOT FREE so the comparisons are not entirely valid.

Do you have anything to add or are you just going to argue? What do you think the biggest drawback is with this game?

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 15
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 6:42:00 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

I guess I'm just not accepting that and I never will.


Fill out the form and mail it to Matrix??






Attachment (1)

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 16
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 6:45:29 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer


quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

Completion of one month of PBEM in one day real time by having all players log in once at any time during that day is achievable and should be the goal.


I believe this to be an unrealistic and unattainable goal. Even if one game month is reduced to a single player turn, the time necessary for 7 players in different time zones to exchange pbem files will take longer than one day real time. That is not the nature of pbem, and AFAIK not a design goal for the game.

Network play where everyone is connected via tcp/ip or pseudo-network play where everyone is online at the same time and itching to turn around their turn as fast as possible is one thing, but pbem where players have different schedules and agree to turn around their turns in a reasonable period (24 hr) is a different thing. There's nothing stopping players right now from fast pseudo-network play if they can manage to arrange it.

CyberBoard and Vassal are benchmark software programs available for pbem play. EiANW right now with its automated functions, standing orders, and some phase skipping is arguably as fast or faster than these benchmarks. With additional automated functions, combining eco/dip phases and perhaps some other shortcuts, EiANW will definitely be much faster than the pbem benchmarks. This is worthy of praise, not continuous whining and complaining that it's still not "fast enough."

If unrealistic complaints continue to be posted, then realistic rebuttals should be expected.

You are correct, of course. But, I would add one thing to the mix: An alarm.

If the game could somehow check the location where PBM files (and later battle files, but let's start with PBM files) are uploaded to, and then send a notification to the user, PBEM would be as fast as or possibly even faster than what IP play could attain.

Note that for this to work, there would have to be an applet included with the game that checked these locations for updates. I've seen the HTML for this kind of thing before, but it's been a while. I imagine there are better tools available now.

Also, it would require that everybody playing use the same naming convention for their PBM and/or ZIP files.

It has to be tied into the game, or else it won't know where things are. Specifically, EACH PBEM game would have to have an instance of the alarm applet running in the host system after the game is shut down (or, minimized?).

Anybody care to break out their HTML or Java skills? :)


Jimmer, I already have this "alarm"... it's called email. If the player sends out an email saying who's turn it is next then I get that email... on my computer, on my blackberry, etc..

Also, DancingBear's point is this: There are a lot of phases where people do something but almost nothing, where some work is done but no interaction with any other players is needed and this gives rise to a possible state of optimization. Personally, I agree with him.

(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 17
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 6:47:22 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

I guess I'm just not accepting that and I never will.


Fill out the form and mail it to Matrix??







nice, very mature, I'm very impressed.

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 18
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 7:39:33 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
Dear NeverMan,

I am so sorry for hurting your feelings. I never meant it to hurt
you like it did. I know that excuses don't matter at
times like this, but my only excuse for my actions is
no excuse. I truly hope that you can find in your heart
to forgive me. You are an important part of my life
and it hurts to know that there is anger between us.

Yours Truly,

pzgndr


(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 19
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 9:00:19 PM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
Jimmer, I already have this "alarm"... it's called email. If the player sends out an email saying who's turn it is next then I get that email... on my computer, on my blackberry, etc..

Also, DancingBear's point is this: There are a lot of phases where people do something but almost nothing, where some work is done but no interaction with any other players is needed and this gives rise to a possible state of optimization. Personally, I agree with him.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm talking about completely removing the email portion by having a tool that shows when the file appears on the server location. It's sort of like IP play would be, except without the requirement of people sitting at the workstation.

The problem with email is that I have many email boxes I have to check. I can't leave one open at the expense of the others. Yes, I know I could configure multiple accounts on one profile, but have you ever tried explaining such a thing to your WIFE?

Still, your point has serious merit: If I configured my email to notify me whenever a letter with a certain item in the subject showed up it would sound an alarm, that would help. All I would have to do is get the other players to always use the same element in their subject fields. It might work ...

_____________________________

At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 20
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 11:04:12 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
So can we sum up (as I think everyone else is too afraid to post on this thread).

Almost everyone wants a faster PBEM game, however, about half want PBEM security fixed first (We all want the bugs fixed).

The Marshall, whose opionion really counts, wants the PBEM security, then a classic scenario.

The last time a poll was done on this topic by Matrix. PBEM game speed was the top item, closely followed by improvements to the AI and trailling a distant third was the editor. Judging from this thread, I think it is save to say PBEM speed is either first or second on almost everyone's list.

Obivously, we have to consider programming time in our list.

PBEM security is almost done, so lets fix it. A Classic scenario, isn't that what the editor is for, so can't we players do this? So with these two done quickly, that leaves PBEM speed on top of almost everyone's list. Is this not correct?

None of us are asking for a race car, just a PBEM game that can be played in a time frame of one to two years. I think Eske put it best.

(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 21
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/5/2009 11:13:54 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

None of us are asking for a race car, just a PBEM game that can be played in a time frame of one to two years. I think Eske put it best.


Bingo. THAT is a realistic and attainable goal.

QED

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 22
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/6/2009 12:02:52 AM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

You are an important part of my life.
Yours Truly,

pzgndr



Sadly I've come to realize this... maybe you should think about getting a life!? You know, go talk to girls! :)

Jimmer, yes, I do agree that any built-in system that worked as well as the file sharing/email notification systems we use now (such as Google groups) would be great!!!

I happen to have both my blackberry and my outlook set to make noise when I get an email.... sometimes I just choose to ignore them. ;)

Though, that said, I don't see there being any issue with someone coding some good 3rd party tools for this game.... maybe it would help if Matrix could expose the code, or at least some API for this game ;).

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 23
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/6/2009 12:04:47 AM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

The last time a poll was done on this topic by Matrix. PBEM game speed was the top item, closely followed by improvements to the AI and trailling a distant third was the editor.


And somehow security, AI improvements and the editor managed to get done first.

(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 24
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/6/2009 12:26:53 AM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Yes, by nature it is a slow game; HOWEVER, do you honestly think the PC version should be slower than the FtF game?

I guess I'm just not accepting that and I never will. My FtF games moved A LOT faster and we only played once a week (if that). The game needs to be faster, bottom line. If you don't want to make it faster than that's ok, but don't expect to attract a lot of new players, as I sincerely feel that it is the biggest drawback of the game (which is why all of my old group, except me, won't buy and play this game, it's just too damn slow).

So, please don't tell me how slow EiA is as if I've never played the game. I have and the FtF (even once a week) is faster than this PC version. I guess sometimes, computers slow things down.

EDIT: Jimmer, you've never finished a game in under a year? I have but let's go with your time frame anyways... ok, a year, that is entirely ACCEPTABLE... one of my PBEM EiANW games has been going on over a year now and we're in mid-1806. How awesome is that!!??


Then you're the exception because this is faster than the boardgame from every aspect that I know and have experienced (From my perspective). Player to player diplomacy counted for much of this. Our diplomacy turns would sometimes take an entire night! You sure we're talking about the same game? LOL!

I'll take note Neverman that you're just D! FAST!




_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 25
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/6/2009 2:44:33 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
OK. Is this almost consensus? We're likely disagree all day on how fast things could be, but I think we all agree that the game would be better if it were faster.

Marshall, you might be the only one that does not see it this way, or perhaps, as you have to code this and we don't, are the only one who doesn't see how the benefits of speed gains out weigh the programming effort.

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 26
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/6/2009 3:28:47 AM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Yes, by nature it is a slow game; HOWEVER, do you honestly think the PC version should be slower than the FtF game?

I guess I'm just not accepting that and I never will. My FtF games moved A LOT faster and we only played once a week (if that). The game needs to be faster, bottom line. If you don't want to make it faster than that's ok, but don't expect to attract a lot of new players, as I sincerely feel that it is the biggest drawback of the game (which is why all of my old group, except me, won't buy and play this game, it's just too damn slow).

So, please don't tell me how slow EiA is as if I've never played the game. I have and the FtF (even once a week) is faster than this PC version. I guess sometimes, computers slow things down.

EDIT: Jimmer, you've never finished a game in under a year? I have but let's go with your time frame anyways... ok, a year, that is entirely ACCEPTABLE... one of my PBEM EiANW games has been going on over a year now and we're in mid-1806. How awesome is that!!??


Then you're the exception because this is faster than the boardgame from every aspect that I know and have experienced (From my perspective). Player to player diplomacy counted for much of this. Our diplomacy turns would sometimes take an entire night! You sure we're talking about the same game? LOL!

I'll take note Neverman that you're just D! FAST!





Actually, I'm not.

As Jimmer already stated, his FtF games sometimes took a year. That is ONE year. I am in a game that is going at the pace of real time (1 for 1), meaning the game will take 15+ years (REAL TIME) to complete....

If your FtF games took this long then I think YOU ARE THE EXCEPTION MARSHALL!!!

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 27
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/6/2009 12:28:21 PM   
bresh

 

Posts: 936
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
Honestly, i dont think gamespeed is the biggest drawback.(Just play more games at the same time), I been in games where we submitted over at 24h period 8-9 player-phases. Meaning you could submit your move twice the same day ! (Ok its not the normal speed, but with commited players you this happens now and then).

Generally if i see the game is moving on, in a stable pace im fine.
This included battles, players give a 24hourish update to the group, its reasonably.
I do agree somewhat, if the players stay silent(dont inform the group), the waiting players will get anoying by the delay.

Hopefully we soon see a simultanious diplomacy+eco phases to.

From my view currently the biggest drawbacks is the "secutity-issue", and the "1-corps-defend-issue", i also have a minor problem with the fleet-battles-withdraws.

Game still have a couple minor bugs, but these get useally caught and reported, hopefully fixed within a not to big timeframe, but the game has moved very far.



Regards
Bresh

< Message edited by bresh -- 8/6/2009 12:35:33 PM >

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 28
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/6/2009 1:06:58 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Yes, by nature it is a slow game; HOWEVER, do you honestly think the PC version should be slower than the FtF game?

I guess I'm just not accepting that and I never will. My FtF games moved A LOT faster and we only played once a week (if that). The game needs to be faster, bottom line. If you don't want to make it faster than that's ok, but don't expect to attract a lot of new players, as I sincerely feel that it is the biggest drawback of the game (which is why all of my old group, except me, won't buy and play this game, it's just too damn slow).

So, please don't tell me how slow EiA is as if I've never played the game. I have and the FtF (even once a week) is faster than this PC version. I guess sometimes, computers slow things down.

EDIT: Jimmer, you've never finished a game in under a year? I have but let's go with your time frame anyways... ok, a year, that is entirely ACCEPTABLE... one of my PBEM EiANW games has been going on over a year now and we're in mid-1806. How awesome is that!!??


Then you're the exception because this is faster than the boardgame from every aspect that I know and have experienced (From my perspective). Player to player diplomacy counted for much of this. Our diplomacy turns would sometimes take an entire night! You sure we're talking about the same game? LOL!

I'll take note Neverman that you're just D! FAST!





Actually, I'm not.

As Jimmer already stated, his FtF games sometimes took a year. That is ONE year. I am in a game that is going at the pace of real time (1 for 1), meaning the game will take 15+ years (REAL TIME) to complete....

If your FtF games took this long then I think YOU ARE THE EXCEPTION MARSHALL!!!


In the words of my six year old during the diplomacy phase, "I know you are so what am I?" LOL!

I will say that we were casual gamers and didn't care much about pace so we never had a time goal.

Maybe JUST maybe it's a little tough to generalize because we all game so differently ...OR maybe I am the exception?!?!?!???!?

If I see a good clear cut way to improve things, I will.





_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 29
RE: If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? - 8/6/2009 2:52:37 PM   
obsidiandrag


Posts: 181
Joined: 3/22/2008
From: Massachusetts, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

The last time a poll was done on this topic by Matrix. PBEM game speed was the top item, closely followed by improvements to the AI and trailling a distant third was the editor.


And somehow security, AI improvements and the editor managed to get done first.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry.. can't agree with this one..

As we have seen skipping phases came online before all of these and in my opinion should be one of the greatest advantages to speed up the game if all players are using it as eficiently as it can be.. (and I am not a fan of the changed build times but agree it would be another speed booster)

I think what alot of people are pointing out is that you are complaining about the same things for the same reasons and not acknowledging the improvements or modifications to that which you are complaining about .. The game has changed and come along way - the speed has been greatly enhanced - and in my opinion the only way to make battles BETTER and FASTER is through IP but then you have to have different player availability options and a whole nother realm of programming for it. Personally I have been thinking of trying to host a game on my pc with pc anywhere or vpn connections for the other players to checkin and take thier turn to see if it speeds things up... The loss is the security as everyone can see what you have going -- concessions for the speed but keeping the game dynamics and structure???

The main point I have is work with it to make it better instead of always looking at the bottom of the glass

To answer you question though that is the main thing I miss about the game from the ftf is the player interaction that you still do not have and wont without IP play where you can chat to eachother while someone else is moving etc.. That is what I would like to see...


no hard feelings..

OD

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815 >> If you had to pick the biggest drawback of this game? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.313