Repair Question: DryDocks

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Repair Question: DryDocks

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> Repair Question: DryDocks

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/6/2009 8:11:09 PM

Chijohnaok2

Posts: 628
Joined: 7/29/2002
From: Florida, USA (formerly Chicago)
Status: offline

Not sure if I've seen this covered yet, but here is my question:
(If someone did address this then please point me in the right direction).

December 8, 1941. The Pearl Harbor attack took place. I have 6 battleships that are damaged, but have not been sunk. I would like to keep them from sinking.

If I put them into drydock on December 8, and the Japanese conduct follow up attacks on Pearl Harbor over the next few days, can they "sink" a ship that is in the drydock?

_____________________________

Feel free to drop by and chat about whatever is on your mind.

Post #: 1

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/6/2009 8:19:11 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

Not sure about that. All I know about drydocks is that you can't put ships in them while the ships are still burning.

_____________________________

Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Chijohnaok2)

Post #: 2

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/6/2009 9:04:43 PM

Chijohnaok2

Posts: 628
Joined: 7/29/2002
From: Florida, USA (formerly Chicago)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Not sure about that.� All I know about drydocks is that you can't put ships in them while the ships are still burning.

Understood. I have one ship that is on fire (that I couldn't put into drydock).

I will go ahead and put as many of the other damaged ships into drydock and see what happens.

_____________________________

Feel free to drop by and chat about whatever is on your mind.

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 3

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/6/2009 9:20:15 PM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

I think DOCKED ships in a shipyard can be sunk just as easily as DISBANDED ships. Could be wrong though. Interested in response.

That's the question, right?

During the RL attack, 7 BBs were "disbanded" i.e. at anchor, and one, USS Pennsylvania, was actually DOCKED in the shipyard. She was hit though just like the rest. Same for those 2 DDs, though just looking at that famous photo, hard to beleive they make it if they weren't in dry dock.

_____________________________

(in reply to Chijohnaok2)

Post #: 4

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/6/2009 9:29:13 PM

Mynok

Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

IIRC, anything in the port is vulnerable to port attacks. The one change I believe was made to AE was to make TF's docked also vulnerable to Naval Attack. But I'd check the manual on that as memory is wishy-washy.

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 5

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/6/2009 9:30:48 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

But I'd check the manual on that as memory is wishy-washy.

Is the air too thick down here for you Martians? You need to move to the mountains.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 8/6/2009 9:31:03 PM >

_____________________________

Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Mynok)

Post #: 6

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/6/2009 9:36:49 PM

Mynok

Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

Too thick, too hot, and smells like humanity. I need to move to Mars not the mountains.

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 7

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/7/2009 12:39:01 AM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

Be nice if you could sink the floating dry dock and the ship in it in one blow. As historically happened on numberous occasions.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Mynok)

Post #: 8

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/7/2009 1:01:36 AM

scout1

Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Be nice if you could sink the floating dry dock and the ship in it in one blow. As historically happened on numberous occasions.

Hell, I'd like to target the drydocks at Pearl specifically. The port facilities are far more important than those old slow battlewagons .....

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 9

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/7/2009 1:26:20 AM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Hell, I'd like to target the drydocks at Pearl specifically. The port facilities are far more important than those old slow battlewagons .....

I had 7 points worth of damage done to mine during the attacks by the AI. If your doing a non-historical first turn, then send in some TB/DB to hit it.

(in reply to scout1)

Post #: 10

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/7/2009 1:35:30 AM

scout1

Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

Hell, I'd like to target the drydocks at Pearl specifically. The port facilities are far more important than those old slow battlewagons .....

I had 7 points worth of damage done to mine during the attacks by the AI. If your doing a non-historical first turn, then send in some TB/DB to hit it.

Their already on port attack. What they go after is up to the computer Gods ..... Wish I could convince the flyboys to avoid the nice big grey floating targets and go after the repair facilities and the Av Gas (which would have taken half of the harbour with it anyways ....)

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 11

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/7/2009 3:08:40 PM

JWE

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chijohnaok
If I put them into drydock on December 8, and the Japanese conduct follow up attacks on Pearl Harbor over the next few days, can they "sink" a ship that is in the drydock?

Got to be a teensy bit careful with terminology. It's a Repair Shipyard. It has drydocks, but also much more. You can damage a Repair Shipyard (random chance) when you make a Port Attack. You can damage a ship in the Repair Shipyard (another random on top of the first). If it's damaged enough, it just may 'sink'.

A "Floating Drydock" (ARD) is a ship. It can be damaged (random chance) or sunk like any other ship. You can damage a ship in a "Floating Drydock" (another random on top of the first). If it's damaged enough, it just may 'sink'.

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to Chijohnaok2)

Post #: 12

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/7/2009 5:51:04 PM

Local Yokel

Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline

On the subject of ARD's I'm having a 'me too' moment for the Japanese. It would help them to have the use of the ARD they deployed to Truk. Not a large dock, but capable of accommodating destroyer-sized vessels. Just a thought for an enhancement to the database.

_____________________________

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 13

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/7/2009 7:36:49 PM

JWE

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel
On the subject of ARD's I'm having a 'me too' moment for the Japanese.� It would help them to have the use of the ARD they deployed to Truk.� Not a large dock, but capable of accommodating destroyer-sized vessels.� Just a thought for an enhancement to the database.

Hi John,

Only two cans of worms with that. We don't have different sized ARDs (it's one size fits all) so an ARD can do everything from a tuna boat to Yamato. Woof !!

We're working on that one, though.

The other one is movement. The ARDs in-game are Base Section Docks that were towed somewhere and assembled. Since there is no "towing" in AE, we had to give them some speed (5 knots iirc) so they could get to where they are going. A "Floating Dock" basically sits; constructed in place (not just sections hooked together); and shouldn't be able to go anywhere. We could set speed = 0, but a 'divide by zero' is bad juju for code.

Once we get different size ARDs down, maybe we can come up with a way to nail them in place too.

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to Local Yokel)

Post #: 14

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/7/2009 8:04:36 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

<snip>
The other one is movement. The ARDs in-game are Base Section Docks that were towed somewhere and assembled. Since there is no "towing" in AE, we had to give them some speed (5 knots iirc) so they could get to where they are going. A "Floating Dock" basically sits; constructed in place (not just sections hooked together); and shouldn't be able to go anywhere. We could set speed = 0, but a 'divide by zero' is bad juju for code.

Once we get different size ARDs down, maybe we can come up with a way to nail them in place too.

Question... is the field an integer, or can youa ssign it a very small, non-zero value? 0.00000000001 would make it basically unmovable, no?

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 15

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/7/2009 8:08:28 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

I'd be willing to bet it could still move 1 hex/phase, the same as a ship out of fuel.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Kitakami)

Post #: 16

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/7/2009 8:24:55 PM

JWE

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America
I'd be willing to bet it could still move 1 hex/phase, the same as a ship out of fuel.

Yeah, you could probably do that with the 312 footer at Truk that LocalYokel was talking about (just pretend some tugs, and such). But not the Dewey at Manila, and definitely not the floater at Singers - that one was moored in place by concrete guide caissons.

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 17

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/8/2009 8:22:15 PM

JWE

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel
On the subject of ARD's I'm having a 'me too' moment for the Japanese.� It would help them to have the use of the ARD they deployed to Truk.� Not a large dock, but capable of accommodating destroyer-sized vessels.� Just a thought for an enhancement to the database.

John, my head is bowed and bloody. We knew about this for quite a while. Brady brought it up, oh .. so many months ago. A total brainfart for me.

I asked Andrew Brown to put a Repair Shipyard, size 4, at Truk, to reflect the capabilities of this little puppy. It's done, and will be in the first patch.

Thank you very much for your attention to detail and in the kind manner in which you express yourself. You are one of the good guys, Mr. Palmer, so please feel free to be blunt. Keep them cards and letters coming.

Ciao. John

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to Local Yokel)

Post #: 18

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/8/2009 9:03:56 PM

AttuWatcher

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/25/2009
From: Hex 181, 36
Status: offline

All this talk makes me wish there was towing and salvage in the game

that is a level of micro I'm sure most people don't want though

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 19

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/8/2009 9:19:33 PM

wpurdom

Posts: 476
Joined: 10/27/2000
From: Decatur, GA, USA
Status: offline

IRL
Shipyard - Although it's true the Pennsylvania was damaged, it was hurt the least of any BB's -�some from the Japs smashing the DD's in the shipyard drydock with it. IRL obviously no torpedo can hit a ship in drydock and with the exception of the Arizona, at least 85% of the damage to the BB's was torpedoes. IRL you couldn't sink a ship in drydock - even the DD's that were smashed with the Pennsylvania were rebuilt.

In the game, there is no question that the ships in the shipyard can sink - IIRC they can be hit by torpedoes, too.

< Message edited by wpurdom -- 8/8/2009 9:21:18 PM >

(in reply to AttuWatcher)

Post #: 20

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/8/2009 9:37:17 PM

JWE

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wpurdom
IRL
Shipyard - Although it's true the Pennsylvania was damaged, it was hurt the least of any BB's -�some from the Japs smashing the DD's in the shipyard drydock with it. IRL obviously no torpedo can hit a ship in drydock and with the exception of the Arizona, at least 85% of the damage to the BB's was torpedoes. IRL you couldn't sink a ship in drydock - even the DD's that were smashed with the Pennsylvania were rebuilt.

In the game, there is no question that the ships in the shipyard can sink - IIRC they can be hit by torpedoes, too.

This is a game. It is driven by the code engine. This is not real life. Real life is driven by what somebody had for breakfast and why their GF kicked them out of bed last week.

Think you should perhaps get over yourself.

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to wpurdom)

Post #: 21

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/8/2009 11:30:49 PM

Chijohnaok2

Posts: 628
Joined: 7/29/2002
From: Florida, USA (formerly Chicago)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: chijohnaok
If I put them into drydock on December 8, and the Japanese conduct follow up attacks on Pearl Harbor over the next few days, can they "sink" a ship that is in the drydock?

Got to be a teensy bit careful with terminology. It's a Repair Shipyard. It has drydocks, but also much more. You can damage a Repair Shipyard (random chance) when you make a Port Attack. You can damage a ship in the Repair Shipyard (another random on top of the first). If it's damaged enough, it just may 'sink'.

A "Floating Drydock" (ARD) is a ship. It can be damaged (random chance) or sunk like any other ship. You can damage a ship in a "Floating Drydock" (another random on top of the first). If it's damaged enough, it just may 'sink'.

Thanks for that clarification. I realized my error in terminology some time after I initially posted.

_____________________________

Feel free to drop by and chat about whatever is on your mind.

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 22

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/11/2009 1:58:12 PM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

I asked Andrew Brown to put a Repair Shipyard, size 4, at Truk, to reflect the capabilities of this little puppy. It's done, and will be in the first patch.

So the first patch will require restarts ? Or only for the database changes ?

Xargun

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 23

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/11/2009 5:45:43 PM

Djordje

Posts: 537
Joined: 9/12/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

I asked Andrew Brown to put a Repair Shipyard, size 4, at Truk, to reflect the capabilities of this little puppy. It's done, and will be in the first patch.

Will there be anything hard-coded in the engine to stop players from clicking it 4 times and making it capable of fully repairing Yamato? Size 64 shipyard on Truk two months after the game started (or ever) sounds very wrong to me...

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 24

RE: Repair Question: DryDocks - 8/11/2009 5:48:04 PM

Mynok

Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

I'm sure it has a maximum size set on it.

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to Djordje)

Post #: 25