Airdrops and paras

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Airdrops and paras

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Airdrops and paras - 10/31/2000 7:49:00 AM

rexmonday

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I've been playing my way through one of the campaigns with an airborne company and cargo planes in my core force. This has certainly been entertaining, but I am starting to get dubious about the modelling of parachutists. I am aware how ahistorical this little-leap-frogging kind of activity that I have got going is, but it seems to raise a couple of questions. If not for SPWAW, then maybe for SPMW. A couple of points for consideration: 1. The largest variation that I have observed from the specified drop zone is about 150 yards (3 hexes). This makes every airdrop a precision masterpiece, as opposed to the scattering that I believe actually occured. Maybe this variation should be increased. 2. Out of 13 scenarios in the campaign, all of them carried out with airdrops, 12 planes each time, (therefore, 12x13=156 flights) so far only 4 or 5 planes have been lost. This works out at a rate of about 3%. Given that some planes will make it off the map, and may well be shot down upon return to base, does this not still seem overly successful? 3. Parachuting troops are never shot at by ground forces, even if they land in the same hex as them. Should a reaction turn of some kind be implemented so as to allow fire at descending/struggling with chute troops? 4. Airdrops do not appear to be effected by weather conditions - I may be wrong here, but they seem as successful in windstorms as in calm balmy summer days. 5. Should designed campaigns have an override switch set by the designer which disallows the use of cargo planes? It is up to the individual player as to whether they want to use them, but shouldn't some scenarios be able to be designed which expressly disallow them. Thus one could design a campaign where airdrops WERE the norm, but forced the paras to hump it on foot all across a couple of the maps. 6. There seems to be no difference between the suppression rates of airborne (ie. parachute trained troops) and any other set of infantry. Shouldn't they suffer much more disorganisation if dropped?

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- 10/31/2000 8:21:00 AM

Wild Bill

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I'll answer what I can... 1. Not sure I understand, distance from designated drop zone or between units? 2. Yes, to a point. However landings such as Market Garden and Varsity had very few losses relatively speaking to enemy attacks. In a game the scope of SP, such losses would put a quick end to many scenarios before they began. 3. Now I've seen the opposite. In the A Meeting of Devils scenario, the British are fired on as soon as they hit the ground. A lot depends I suppose on the quality of the units on the ground. 4. That does seem to be the case. Attack aircraft are, but I don't think this was modeled into gliders or transports. It should be. 5. I would like that very much. 6. Here again, my experience differs. Nearly all airborne troops suffer some suppression when landing. That is what I have seen. They usually rally well, but not always. Of course, in my view paras should recover quickly. They are trained for that. Some very good points, Rex. Nice discussion. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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- 10/31/2000 9:00:00 AM

rexmonday

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In clarification: 1. distance from designated dropzone. The distance between units dropped seems to be a steady every-other-hex for those coming out of one craft. This can lead to an incredibly long string of bazooka teams. 3. I haven't seen this instant fire upon landing/landed units. The plane will get shot at, and the stick will drop, but in allc ases that I have observed they themselves are not fired upon until the opponent gets his turn. I shall run a few tests. Thanks for the response.

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- 11/1/2000 9:53:00 PM

Wild Bill

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I'd be interested in the results, Rex...WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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- 11/2/2000 6:53:00 AM

rexmonday

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I only ran the test one, so it's certainly not conclusive: I bunched up a whole SS rifle company in the desert, set all the AI modifiers as high as possible (searching 250%, etc.) and then flew in a batch of cargo planes with drop zones right on the company. The SS boys certainly fired at the planes, but in no case did they fire upon the troops once they had landed until the AI got its turn. I also ran through the start of your Meeting Of Devils and the same thing: the AI will fire at the planes but not the paras during the pre-bombardment phase. I suspect the game is just not set up to do this kind of fire. Possibly a way around it would be to set the force using paras as side 2. In human versus AI this would give the AI the first volley of shots on the suppressed infantry. I'll see how that works out. I just find it strange that the infantry don't react to the paras when they DO react to the planes that dropped them.

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- 11/3/2000 6:31:00 AM

rexmonday

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Ran another test - another 2 SS rifle companies in the desert with the AI set to 250 and the searching set to 200%. This time I set it up so that the cargo planes carried out their drops not during the preliminary bombardment phase, but during turn one (just using the delayed drop control). Once again the AI troops didn't hesitate to shoot at the planes, but completely ignored the descending/landed paras during the turn they dropped. Not a single shot was fired at the newly arrived infantry during the human palyers turn. However, during the AI turn the SS men did their unpleasent stuff and slaughtered the US rifle company that had just landed on them. The US (human controlled) did get a couple of chances of OP fire, but not many, due to the fact they were still suppressed from the drop and the human player does not receive a chance to rally them. This appears to be the way to operate if you want paras shot at as they land (or immediately after). Possibly useful in setting up situations where troops came down too close to enemy locations. In order to avoid there being a turn where no human controlled units are on the map it makes sense to position some scouts or pathfinder units from turn 1 (which is historically justified).

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