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Campaign question - 10/31/2000 4:20:00 PM

Hortlund

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Joined: 10/13/2000
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I'm working on that Das Reich-campaign I've been telling y'all about, and now I've reached the battles for the Mozhaisk line in October 1941. Historically this area was the scene of some intense attacks and counterattacks, sometimes several a day during a 2 week period. In my campaign I would like to have the player do several battles on the same map. No problem, that can be done easily. But I would also like the setup area to change depending on how the previous battle went. One option is to let the setup-area depend on the previous battle-score (a draw would lead to one setup-area, a victory would mean a larger setup-area, a loss would mean a smaller etc...). Ideally I would like to let the player use the area he captured/held in the last battle as his setup-are for the next battle, is this possible? Also, ideally the battle damage from the last battle should be present in the next battle. Is this possible? Is there a way to save a map at the end of a battle, and use this map for the next campaign battle? Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this? ------------------ Panzerjaeger Hortlund -=Fear is only a state of mind=-

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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
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- 10/31/2000 6:56:00 PM

Warhorse

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Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
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Hello, you can use the same map, just when you are nearing the end of the scenario for that particular map, save the game, then when you are done, change the save to a scenario, open in the editor, and save the map to the H-D. Then you can import the map into your next scenario! Supposedly Fred's editor would do this directly from the save file, but I've not been able to do it successfully:-( It (the map), crashes when you try to open it in the editor. The former way mentioned works fine though. Hope this helps ------------------ Mike Amos Meine Ehre Heisst Treue

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Mike Amos

Meine Ehre hei�t Treue
www.cslegion.com

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Post #: 2

- 11/1/2000 3:38:00 AM

Hortlund

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Hmm...not sure...I dont think that would work for a campaign battle. Unless every campaign player would let me come to their house at the end of one battle and save their map

Has anyone done a stalingrad campaign? The same question must have arised there too.

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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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Post #: 3

- 11/1/2000 4:54:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
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For what you have in mind, I don't think it is possible. I've been sitting here thinking about it and no, I can't think of a way. It doesn't mean its impossible, just impossible for me

Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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- 11/1/2000 5:23:00 AM

Warhorse

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From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
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No, I meant, you are making these scenario's, true the battle damage would be placed according to how your particular outcome was, but hey, it's better than no damage at all, correct?? Her you go, you playtest your first scenario, or whatever one is going to be the same map in another, before the scenario ends, or after it ends, just save it before you advance to the next scenario. Change the name to scenario#, and save the map, then import to the scenario, that you want to have the battle damage in, see??!! It works, done it before with my long campaign, trust me;-) Everyone will have the 'damaged' map, because it will be in the scenario file, they don't need the map, are you following me? Hope this helps, I'm designing a campaign with the Hungarians, so I'm with you on all the 'fun and games' going into it!! Wild Bill, don't know how you do it man, just one is driving me nuts, what drugs do you use, I'll take a case, heh, heh!!! ------------------ Mike Amos Meine Ehre Heisst Treue

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- 11/1/2000 12:00:00 PM

Raindem

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Joined: 7/15/2000
From: Arizona
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This is how I would approach the problem. First, you'll take the same scenario, using the same map as previous scenario, and drop it in the 5 different nodes that your previous scenario will point to. You'll be making slight changes to each of those scenarios (actually, you have to make the changes BEFORE you assign it to a node). For the map question, to try and get the player to start the next scenario where he left off the last one would be difficult. But you can get close by carefully placing the objectives into different sections of the map. Then, increase their point value to the point that victory will be determined mainly on those objectives, and the score effect of casualties will be reduced. For example, if a draw would have the attacker controlling about half of the map, then place your objective flags such that if he controls the ones on his side of the map, then a draw will result. To do this you will have to know the victory conditions you have set, as well as making some quick calculations with the objective point values. Then, when you set up the corresponding next scenario, you can alter the start line to conform with those objectives. It's not perfect, but its the only way I can think of. As for starting the next battle with the same damage received in the last one, just set the build points to zero for that scenario. (In user-defined linked campaigns you don't accumulate build points anyway). I'm not as experienced as many other members of this forum, so someone feel free to correct me if I'm off track here.

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- 11/1/2000 1:02:00 PM

Hortlund

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Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it. I think the way I'll do it is this. Use only say 3 clusters of high value victory locations. That would mean that if the player gets all 3, its a decisive victory, and the "new" frontline will go where the old victory locations were. If the player gets two, he will have another frontline etc. In my opinion, this will work. BUT I just wish I could let the player keep the locations he has taken somehow. Its gotta be real frustrating to capture that key church or hill after hours of close combat and horrendous losses, only to be forced by me to retake the damn thing again in the next battle, without having had a chance to defend it. Also I have another question. Back in 41 the russians used *alot* of arty in that battle, and if I give the computer half that number I'm pretty sure he'll blow the Krauts to pieces in 3 seconds flat. How do you guys handle artillery in a scenario or campaign? Should I give the russian computer enough arty to wreck the entire map? He sure had it back in 41. Steve

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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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Post #: 7

- 11/1/2000 4:20:00 PM

Grah

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It's probably very frustrating but there are loads of accounts I've read, from all fronts of the war and from all the combatants, where the 'Top Brass' ordered a commander to take an objective and he does so with the resulting casualties. The next order is for him to move back some units to 'dress the line' maybe as a result of a reversal on one or both of his flanks. He doesn't know why but an order's an order. A day later and he gets another order to retake the area he's given up. He's unhappy. You can bet the assault units are livid! Grah

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- 11/1/2000 9:52:00 PM

Wild Bill

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If you want a good balance, probably a battery of artillery for each company, and a battalion of artillery for each battalion. If they are big guns, I mean big guns you migh want to halve that. You don't want artillery killing the fun of the game and in SPWAW too much artillery can do just that. So you need an accurate balance...WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 9

- 11/2/2000 11:57:00 AM

Raindem

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From: Arizona
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Just another thought on what you are trying to simulate. If you want a series of battles over the same terrain, with the same start lines, and with the same accumulated casualties, why not just make one looooong campaign, and adjust the build and support points accordingly? A 60 turn scenario would be grueling but with careful spacing of reinforcements and AI reaction times, I think you could program some natural "lulls" into the battle, if that is the effect you wanted.

_____________________________

Grab them by the balls. Their hearts and minds will follow.

(in reply to Hortlund)

Post #: 10

- 11/2/2000 4:07:00 PM

Hortlund

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Raindem wrote: "If you want a series of battles over the same terrain, with the same start lines, and with the same accumulated casualties, why not just make one looooong campaign, and adjust the build and support points accordingly? A 60 turn scenario would be grueling but with careful spacing of reinforcements and AI reaction times, I think you could program some natural "lulls" into the battle, if that is the effect you wanted." This is a very interesting idea! I could probably incorporate this into my campaign. In the first 10+ turns you have the player's core units attacking a relatively weak opponent, around turn 10-15 the soviets recieve *major* reinforcements, to simulate the counterattack of day 2. After another 10-15 turns, the player gets reinforcements by Aux units, etc. If you combine this idea with the previous idea to have different setup-areas depending on battle outcome I think you would get a very interesting battle. I will definitely look into this further. Its gonna require alot of planning and testing though. Well...I'll just tell my GF that I have to work late

Steve ------------------ Panzerjaeger Hortlund -=Fear is only a state of mind=-

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Hortlund)

Post #: 11