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Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 4:02:54 AM   
dsuday

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 8/13/2009
Status: offline 		I like Strategy games and I was looking for buy some good strategy games and I came across this one. I see that the price is around 80 bucks, why is that ?

Is it much different from the Paradox games like Hearts of Iron etc...?
Post #: 1
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 4:07:31 AM   
Sheytan


Posts: 863
Joined: 11/28/2006
Status: offline 		Because there isnt anything that comes close to it in relation to the scope and accuracy in relation to the Pacific Theatre of Operations. This is why I gladly spent my coin on the game, as I did with WITP, when it was pricey as well.

IF you find something even remotely similar to WITP/AE please let me know.

As a aside everyone whom worked on this for the last few years deserves a paycheck.

In reply to your question about HOI, I never played it. I have been playing WITP for years, and now AE, as a aside, I was a fan of the EU series.

< Message edited by Sheytan -- 8/13/2009 4:08:11 AM >

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 4:20:43 AM   
bilbow


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Concord NH
Status: offline 		Yes, HOI3 is very different. My son bought it, first play Switzerland joins the Allies. He has already moved on to something else. Me, I played UV, WITP and now this continously since 2002. There's a reason for that.

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 4:20:54 AM   
olivier_slith


Posts: 187
Joined: 5/7/2000
From: USA
Status: offline 		The replayability value of this game is mind boggling. You'll be playing this for years to come.

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Post #: 4
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 4:21:11 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dsuday

I like Strategy games and I was looking for buy some good strategy games and I came across this one. I see that the price is around 80 bucks, why is that ?

Is it much different from the Paradox games like Hearts of Iron etc...?


I was wondering the same thing, what makes this game so much better than other games?Surely other developers work just as hard for their games.Why dont they deserve to have their game cost $90?

I ordered this game because I like War Plan Orange(Another pacific game by 2by3 games) and it just looked awesome.So its on it's way, I just found out that I'm going to have to wait another week and half to get it which is pissing me off.

'Supposedly' this game is ultimate pacific wargame, no denying that.This game is no doubt going to be awesome, and I believe its worth all the money for it, although a friendlier price would be more appreciated.($100 for a game is something to think about)

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 4:24:14 AM   
olivier_slith


Posts: 187
Joined: 5/7/2000
From: USA
Status: offline 		If you buy an xbox360 game, it will take you $60 and it will keep you busy a couple months at best. For $20 more, you get something, once again, that will keep you busy/entertained for years to come.

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Post #: 6
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 4:31:13 AM   
Lockmart Lawndart

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		Speaking as a latecomer to the witp game, its like nothing else on the market. The time, commitment, attention to detail in this production is second to none. Hearts of Iron, while a good game, does not hold a candle to this game. I own HOI and all its expansions and WiTP:AE is like that but with the complexity ramped waaaaaay up (along with fun and replayabilty). In HOI you just had to worry about production of carriers and where to put them. In WiTP not only do you have have production and where to put them, but you have to worry care and feeding of these beasts. Say, what island you have to gas them up at, what kind of leadership they have, if you can park them in a particular port. You also need to direct their airwings at the most basic level like deciding how much cap you will have, etcetera and thats just carriers, theres a whole world of Land based, air units, production supply.

In short, yes its price makes it a bit of a leap of faith. Speaking of someone that has made that leap, if you enjoy the complexity and stratagy of Hearts of Iron but want something more, then this game will totally blow your socks off.

oh, and not I nor anyone else is making a dime off of what we say here : P



edit- Also, if you want to get an idea the work that went into this, check through the bibliography section in the manual. Just the amount of research that went into this is astounding.

and echoing what other people said about replayability. Ive been playing the original WiTP since I bought it a year ago and the only reason I stopped was AE and I know I'll be playing it for years to come.


< Message edited by Lockmart Lawndart -- 8/13/2009 4:36:37 AM >

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 4:34:28 AM   
sfbaytf

 

Posts: 1122
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dsuday

I like Strategy games and I was looking for buy some good strategy games and I came across this one. I see that the price is around 80 bucks, why is that ?

Is it much different from the Paradox games like Hearts of Iron etc...?



The same reason fine wine cost more than Thunderbird or a well made piece of furniture costs more than what you get at Ikea. You get what you pay for.

I was intrigued with HOIT3, but they can't even get the location of Stalingrad or other locations correct. Obviously made by people who don't really have pride in their work.

WitP AE on the other hand is a true labor of love and without a doubt the designers have great pride in their work.

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Post #: 8
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 4:36:55 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
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From: Corona, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dhennin

If you buy an xbox360 game, it will take you $60 and it will keep you busy a couple months at best. For $20 more, you get something, once again, that will keep you busy/entertained for years to come.


I never said I even had an Xbox 360.I actually can't stand consoles, actually.I only play Wargames, a few RTS's and Counter Strike:Source to meet my first person shooter needs.Screw the Xbox 360.

Seriously, you thought a wargaming teen would have an Xbox 360?

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 8/13/2009 4:37:37 AM >

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 4:53:05 AM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
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From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dsuday

I like Strategy games and I was looking for buy some good strategy games and I came across this one. I see that the price is around 80 bucks, why is that ?

Is it much different from the Paradox games like Hearts of Iron etc...?


I played HOI2 a lot. I own over ten Paradox games too. I just bought HOI3, and two weeks ago I bought Admirals Edition (AE). Also bought WiTP in 2004.

I paid $80 for AE, $40 for HOI3. AE is ten times the game and more. I am done playing HOI3 until patched because of the many, many bugs and high historical inaccuracies. I will play AE for many years to come just like WiTP, and have already played for many hours. The depth of AE and all that I learn from the game historically makes it worth far more than what I paid. I would gladly pay $80 for HOI3 if it were half the game that AE is and as stable. HOI3 locked up last night too.

If you love WW2 strategy games, and have lots of time to play, you can't beat this value. Be prepared though to get hooked.

(in reply to dsuday)
Post #: 10
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 4:53:05 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Yes very expensive but this seems to be the "flagship" game in Matrix lineup. It has the most dedicated users, most active tech support, etc.

It is one of the most engrossing World War 2 games around. As I always say, I play WitP to experience the war and not to win it.

If you ask me, I can't really get into HOI. For me HOI it is more complex than WitP because you need to manage diplomacy, production and army movement all in real time. In WitP, you can take your time because it is turn based and you don't necessarily need to set everything up nicely in the first turn or understand every aspect of the game.

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Post #: 11
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 5:09:30 AM   
GenChaos33


Posts: 360
Joined: 9/28/2000
Status: offline 		Well AE was not $80 for me. I had to pay like $140 for it(FYI - I like the physical copy/printed manual). I have always been a UV player since it came out, but never made the jump to WITP(no time, work, family, etc.). But this last year time has become available to me. So this last Xmas(with the Matrix Xmas sale) and since Matrix STATED WITP WILL BE REQUIRED for AE. I decided to buy WITP with the sole plan of diving into AE. But Matrix did the nice bend me over routine just before AE release and not make WITP a requirement. So I ended up buying 2 games to get 1 (hopefully, i will go back sometime and play WITP, but I think it will never happen):

But I still think AE is worth it. Yes, its many $$$, complex, large, a time hogger plus I suck at it. AI always schoolin me so far. But I do get a rush watchin the battle animations/reading the all the reports/gettin the results. Always trying to get better with the planning stuff. I assume the patches will keep being released and AE will only keep gettin better. I see many years of play in the future....maybe 10...15...20....til I RIP?!

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 5:10:09 AM   
Zebedee


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Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Yes very expensive but this seems to be the "flagship" game in Matrix lineup. It has the most dedicated users, most active tech support, etc.

It is one of the most engrossing World War 2 games around. As I always say, I play WitP to experience the war and not to win it.

If you ask me, I can't really get into HOI. For me HOI it is more complex than WitP because you need to manage diplomacy, production and army movement all in real time. In WitP, you can take your time because it is turn based and you don't necessarily need to set everything up nicely in the first turn or understand every aspect of the game.


HoI series is Real Time with Pause - the pause being important. ;) I've found it just the reverse to be honest. Primarily because of the Paradox dictum of Playability > Historicity. But enough on that... ;)

-----

To the OP - if you want more detail, with all its benefits and drawbacks, and more focus on logistics, WitP and now AE are well worth the money. Think Paradox level of commitment to patching, an active modding community (CHS and RHS for WitP being the two largest community mods, much as Stony Road and CORE are for HoI) and a fairly friendly community. The game has a steep learning curve although the residents of the WitP community are generally very tolerant of the silliest question and willing to help new players get over that initial 'OMFG - it's sooooo big' few turns.

Have a look at some of the WitP AARs and consider whether this level of detail and micromanagement is for you; AE is even more detailed and has even more micromanagement tasks to perform. It's a lot of money to sink into one game, but if you get 80 hours of gameplay out of it, it's cheap. Most players get many, many thousands of hours gameplay out of WitP. AE will no doubt be a similar investment.

(I post as Zebedee on the Paradox boards, you'll see me dossing about the OT forums a lot ;) ).

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 5:10:59 AM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 715
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
Status: offline 		HOI III from my friends perspective lost all of the magic... not my words but he doesn't like it and we were big HOI fans so I will wait a year myself good patches which all Paradox games need it seems. Historically it sucks and I know Matrix dosen't condone bashing other game makers here but seriously the game is so buggy it is not playable unless you play Germany.

Why is WITP expensive? Because it is like a Porsche and a Ford, the Ford is a great car does what it is supposed to but the Porsche is something you like to take out on the weekend and love.

This game is for specialized market of strategy players sadly, I wish more bought it because it is the best real strategy game I have played in 10 years. The people who will play it pay a little more for a masterpiece instead of a tool. Because it will last a life time easy, 5 years post release of WITP and it was still the same people still the same arguments because people love the ability and freedom. The Grognards epitome of games as far as I am concerned the rest is just fodder fly by night wannabes to catch the 30 second attention seekers.

Truth be told I would have spent 200 dollars for it because it is like the sports car of war games.

< Message edited by Scott_USN -- 8/13/2009 5:12:53 AM >

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 6:12:52 AM   
fbs

 

Posts: 1048
Joined: 12/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dsuday

I like Strategy games and I was looking for buy some good strategy games and I came across this one. I see that the price is around 80 bucks, why is that ?

Is it much different from the Paradox games like Hearts of Iron etc...?



HOI is beer and pretzels game... wargaming for the mainstream. It has some quite impressive abstractions, but it is far far far far away from reality -- in which world you can raise 50 Canadian divisions?

WITP is a grognard's game; it's more of a simulation, indeed, and everybody here keeps looking at the minimum details of "what happened in reality" vs "what happens in the game", and there are ferocious discussions around if "that 250kg bomb really could have sunk the Akagi if it had hit the #1 elevator and penetrated all the way to the forward magazine". This is serious wargaming.

Imho, best hundred bucks I've spent in years... hahahaha... :^D

fbs

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Post #: 15
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 6:16:36 AM   
yoshino


Posts: 94
Joined: 12/10/2006
From: Komatsu, Japan
Status: offline 		In Japan,even WITP and AE are inexpensive than other PC games
As for HOI,I've waited patches that make the game really playable.


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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 6:24:00 AM   
Scott_USN

 

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Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yoshino

In Japan,even WITP and AE are inexpensive than other PC games
As for HOI,I've waited patches that make the game really playable.




Ah I love to see Japanese players. Do you like the game and think it is fair? I think so myself. Not to bring cultures and such into it but I would really like to hear the Japanese side.

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Post #: 17
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 6:26:47 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Hey a "nihonjin" playing WitP. :D Cool!

Anyway, if you're into boardgames, the fairly detailed ones are priced above $100. Wargaming is an expensive hobby.

Just think of Matrix's target market for WitP. These are people who love history and will not tolerate Stalingrad being out of place. The people who are interested and paitent enough to play WitP are few, so they need to jack up the price a bit to make economic sense. And for a complex game, there are a lot of man hours clocked by the developers. If it takes a player from 1 to 4 years to play a whole campaign. The beta testers should put in more hours. :)

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Post #: 18
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 6:26:48 AM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline 		Just to provide some balance, it is also true that Witp/AE is not a game for the masses. It is without a doubt the best computer game series I have ever owned, and by far the cheapest as measured in $/hour of gameplay. But it is a fairly complex game, and isn't something you pick up and 10 minutes later you're proficient. But if you're into strategy games and are interested in the most in-depth simulation of WW2 in the pacific that exists,this is the game.

By contrast, I also bought War Plan Pacific. I forget how much that was, but let's say $50. I did play it for a bit, enjoyed it (kind of reminded me of AH's Victory in the Pacific), but I played it for maybe two months, and basically tired of it. I'll probably pull it off the shelf once in a while, but not often. By contrast, I played Witp daily for years, and expect to do the same with AE.

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Post #: 19
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 6:31:02 AM   
Ddog

 

Posts: 230
Joined: 2/17/2005
From: Cincinnati, OH
Status: offline 		I said the same thing about WitP back in 2005 when I bought it.  Why is the price so high?  If I paid so much money, why didn't I get a printed manual?  Fact is, I've played the game 340 to 350 days a year for 4 years straight.  Made some great friends, and am now continuing the journey with AE.  If the game was 2x the price, I would buy it. 

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 8:04:58 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		"HoI series is Real Time"


Sorry, but I have always hated the way this term is used in computer gaming. WITP, played once a day on one day turns is far closer to playing Real Time than any "continuous time" wargame. My PBEM is averaging just over 1.2 turns a day, which means that it is going to take damned close to the same amount of time to play our game as the real war lasted.

The price is reflective of the research, time and effort put into creating a beautiful simulation of the Pacific war. If you enjoy this kind of game, you will be assimilated...




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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 8:13:43 AM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 715
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
Status: offline 		How many played PacWar for almost a decade until Matrix decided to fix it up for free in 1998 1999? Then decided damn there are some hardcore players out there and Grigsby and crew however they hooked up decided to make WITP and gave us UV in 2002 to keep us hungry....

Not to mention the other great classic game that I played for hundreds of "real time" days War in Russia. Too bad they didn't remake that one on the same premise. Many other good games under the same banner but none I have played felt like WIR with the squads and debating "Do I send that broken division back in combat or wait!" :)

What great games

< Message edited by Scott_USN -- 8/13/2009 8:15:10 AM >

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 10:15:21 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Got WitP 2004 as Xmas gift. With Combat Mission (BB and AK), it was one of the few games I still play after 5 years. Now I think I uninstall WitP, since I have AE.

WitP has given me massive value for money (especially since it was gift ) during these years. I fully expect to still play AE in 2014...at least hopefully.

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 10:22:56 AM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline 		You pay what you pay because there are no other games like it. You should be glad that it exists in the first place. Its a niche game to the extreme.

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 11:41:35 AM   
51st Highland Div


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/23/2005
From: Glasgow,Scotland
Status: offline 		Yes the game ist cheap...but in terms of value for money it is almost priceless..considering the money i have wasted on other "entertainment" (other half's choice in movies being a case in point).Having played WitP almost constantly since it came out years ago then imo its the best that money can buy and well worth the initial outlay

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 12:07:46 PM   
Templer_12


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

You pay what you pay because there are no other games like it. You should be glad that it exists in the first place. Its a niche game to the extreme.


Very weak and powerless words for my emotions, but I sign them!

< Message edited by Templer -- 8/13/2009 12:09:19 PM >

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RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 12:26:02 PM   
Templer_12


Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 51st Highland Div

Yes the game ist cheap...but in terms of value for money it is almost priceless..considering the money i have wasted on other "entertainment" (other half's choice in movies being a case in point).Having played WitP almost constantly since it came out years ago then imo its the best that money can buy and well worth the initial outlay


So I did.

Bevor by random I found Matrixgames (via Forge of Freedom) I hunted for every commercial reviews of so named experts.
If they write the game XXX is incredible deep, hard to master and so on and if I was interested in the teather, or story these games offer I gave them a try and spend money for it.
Most times I wasted my money and a good part of my lifetime.

Report to Matrix:
If I could, I would spend all the money that I have thrown out in the past 20 years for worthless games for praiseing and thanks to Matrixgames. And that was a lot more then 100 $.

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Post #: 27
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 12:33:37 PM   
Valgua


Posts: 218
Joined: 11/10/2006
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey


quote:

ORIGINAL: dsuday

I like Strategy games and I was looking for buy some good strategy games and I came across this one. I see that the price is around 80 bucks, why is that ?

Is it much different from the Paradox games like Hearts of Iron etc...?


I was wondering the same thing, what makes this game so much better than other games?Surely other developers work just as hard for their games.Why dont they deserve to have their game cost $90?

I ordered this game because I like War Plan Orange(Another pacific game by 2by3 games) and it just looked awesome.So its on it's way, I just found out that I'm going to have to wait another week and half to get it which is pissing me off.

'Supposedly' this game is ultimate pacific wargame, no denying that.This game is no doubt going to be awesome, and I believe its worth all the money for it, although a friendlier price would be more appreciated.($100 for a game is something to think about)


For another game perhaps, but for a game that you can play with for years? Think about it. How many other games have so many followers after 3 years? Think about it as dollars per hour. Witp AE costs like 5 dinners at a cheap restaurant or 6 nights at the cinema. If you are a gentleman and invite your girlfriend Witp equals to 3 dinners and 3 movies. Do you still think that it is expensive?

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Post #: 28
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 12:36:24 PM   
Valgua


Posts: 218
Joined: 11/10/2006
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Templer


quote:

ORIGINAL: 51st Highland Div

Yes the game ist cheap...but in terms of value for money it is almost priceless..considering the money i have wasted on other "entertainment" (other half's choice in movies being a case in point).Having played WitP almost constantly since it came out years ago then imo its the best that money can buy and well worth the initial outlay


So I did.

Bevor by random I found Matrixgames (via Forge of Freedom) I hunted for every commercial reviews of so named experts.
If they write the game XXX is incredible deep, hard to master and so on and if I was interested in the teather, or story these games offer I gave them a try and spend money for it.
Most times I wasted my money and a good part of my lifetime.

Report to Matrix:
If I could, I would spend all the money that I have thrown out in the past 20 years for worthless games for praiseing and thanks to Matrixgames. And that was a lot more then 100 $.


My feelings exactly. It may seem silly, but Matrix really improved my life.

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Post #: 29
RE: Why is this game so expensive ? - 8/13/2009 12:38:19 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dsuday

I like Strategy games and I was looking for buy some good strategy games and I came across this one. I see that the price is around 80 bucks, why is that ?


Because it's the best game you'll ever buy in your life.

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