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My list of bugs - 8/13/2009 1:28:50 PM   
Harain

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 8/8/2006
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After playing this game for a couple of weeks, and LOVING it, I decided to post about the bugs and errors i found, hoping you will fix them for the next patch, There's also some suggestions for improvement.

These aren't in any particular order, since I'm doing this from memory, and I'll probably forget some...



1. USA doesn't join the allies when auto-declaring war on the axis.

2. Similar to 1, lots of neutral countries don't join an alliance when being declared war on by an alliance. Off the top of my head: Portugal, Iceland, Turkey (although it joins a couple of turns later), Switzerland (same as Turkey).

3. The retreat bug. In my opinion the worst bug in the game, really hoping you fix this. When a unit retreats, if it lands on an enemy hex, it takes it for its own country, not for the 1 owning the hex it occupied when retreating. As an extreme example, I played a game as the allies, where a single Slovenian unit was forced to retreat across the maginot line, and so claimed a hex of french land to Slovenia. The next turn a german panzer corps went through that hex and conquered a huge chunk of France, all for Slovenia. The end result was that ALL of France went to Slovenia. I'm sure this is not by design, and ruined German PP income in that game, had to restart the game for a serious challenge.

4. Related to 3. but even worse, altough the AI doesn't "abuse" it like 3.: an airborne unit ALWAYS claims the hex it lands on, EVEN IF IT'S AN ALLY lol. This can't be right! So basically, if I want I can build a bunch of airborne divisions and conquer all my allies cities

5. If you move a unit, then deploy a new unit on the original hex of unit #1, the click the Undo button of unit #1, it returns to the original hex, and the new unit you deployed vanishes.

6. When France surrenders and Vichy France is created, ONLY the original french hexs are given to Vichy France, meaning: if France conquered new hexes, and the owner of that country surrenders, giving those hexes to France, then those hexes will NOT be transfered to Vichy France, but will stay as owned by France... I had a game playing as Great Britain where i conquered Persia before France surrendered, and for some reason, Persia surrendered to France, giving up half it's country, incuding 2 cities, to France. When France surrendered and Vichy France was formed, all that part of Persia still belonged to France, making it impossible for any country to conquer, and also blocking the access from Russia to the south. Very serious (if rare) bug, shouldn't be hard to fix.

7. Not exactly a bug, just a request for a small change which I'm sure lots of players will be thankful for: whenever I load a game, I have to right-click the minimap to change the colors, then click on the "Change Ownership Draw Mode" button, then set the zoom to my favorite... Is there any chance for the game to remember those settings? Either as a global setting or part of the savegame would work. As it is now, it's really annoying.

8. Again, not a bug, just a suggestion: Naval bombardement is REALLY overpowered. I know it's by design, but it should be toned down. As it is, if i have 5 battleships, I can destroy a full strength lvl 5 tank corps with a lvl 1 infantry division in 1 hit (if the tank corps is surrounded in a coastal hex). This really shoudn't happen, it's way too powerful. A good way to fix this, would be to change it into something similar to air strikes, where each bombardement has a chance of doing some damage.

9. Desert movement is way too fast, as fast as plains. It should be slow, especially for tank units, they would get stalled really fast moving in the deep desert.

10. Naval transport is too fast: you can load, move to another port and unload safely, and it will NEVER be intercepted by the enemy, even if it has overwhelming forces in the sea between the 2 ports. As an example, once playing as the germans, I invaded england. Took 4 tank coorps in amphib transports and moved them to the north sea. Ending the turn, I lost 3 of the 4 transports as well as half my fleet, since the brits had insane numbers of ships there. But I did manage to land the last corps, and using the naval bombardement from my 2 surviving battleships (see point 8. above), i managed to conquera port city. Then it was easy: I had massive amouts of troops in all the western europe ports, just had to load them, move them (safely) to my newly acquired english port, and unload them, The poor british didn't have a chance, since I could transport my whole army safely across their countless ships. This really shouldn't be allowed. As a quick fix, I suggest you make it impossible to enter a port on the same turn as it left a port. This would make the game much more realistic and balanced.

11. Russian winter is nowhere near as bad as it should be. All it does is reduce movement and supply/efficiency. If you want to make it really bad (as it should be, Russian winter killed MUCH more germans in the 1st 2 years of war than the russians did), make it so that if a unit movesbetween snow hexes in Russia, it takes some damage, and I mean real damage, not just efficiency. As the game is now, all the russian winter does is slow down the germans, it should really hurt them.

12. This is a tricky bug, maybe you meant it like this, but just doesn't feel right. When a chunk of land is surrounded in all sides, and loses all access to supply, it gets gradually absorved by the surrounding countries. This doesn't happen if there is a resource hex in that piece of land. Is this correct? Because I don't think resource hexes give any kind of supply, and if they don't they shouldn't prevent the hexes around it to get absorved.

13. There are lots of hidden events that just happen without a warning in the events phase. Going to give just 2 examples, but there are lots of others: AI Germany attacks Russia without declaring war and, related to this 1, Russia get a massive 2/3 penalty in efficiency without warning... There should be some kind of message for the russian player explaining what's happening.

14. Russia gets weaker the more the germans advance (since they lose PP), when in reality, they just got stronger and stronger, because of the buildup of industry east of the Urals. I think you try to recreate this with the "industry moving east" event, but I think it's nowhere near enough. My suggestion is to make Magnitogorsk (the Urals main city and supply source) similar to what New York is for the USA: a massive production center, that represents all the production outside of the map. You could then increase the PP there by event, for example, when those city lost events fire. That would mean that, even though Russia lost a city, they would not lose the production. You might even consider totally removing production from conquered russian cities, to simulate the scorched ground policy of Stalin, where the Red Army destroyed everything as it retreated, to prevent the germans from having access to food, supply, etc, as they advanced.


AI Bugs/suggestions:

A. As it is atm, the AI will NOT move towards enemy hexes if there are no troops or cities there, ever. Even if there is a resource, the AI wil just not try to capture it if there are no enemies to chase. I remember 1 game where Germany AI conquered ALL of Russia, but went by Mariupol, and a small chunk of land stayed Russian until Russia surrendered. This isn't s serious bug, but it does make sense that the AI would have a Resource hex as a priority: they would get more PP and their enemy would have less...

B. An AI unit, if totally cut off from supply , when all surrounding hexes belong to an enemy, will NOT move, even if it just had to move a single hex to gain access to supply. This doesn't make sense really. A cut off unit should always have getting back to supply as it's top priority.

C. I read in other posts about fixes to air attacks, but here goes anyway: the AI constantly does air strikes, whenever it can, even if it's not strategically important. It's a HUGE waste of PP. As a fix I suggest that the AI ONLY perform air strikes on a target that is going to be hit by land forces in the same turn (as it already does, just stop the other wastefull air strikes.

D. The AI never does naval bombardements (thank god lol, extremelly overpowered ).



Well, can't remember any more, will add here if I do
Post #: 1
RE: My list of bugs - 8/13/2009 2:00:40 PM   
cpdeyoung


Posts: 5368
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Carolina, USA
Status: offline
This is a very fine list. I do not agree with every recommendation you make but the list contains very good, detailed reports on many bugs. I have been on the beta test team for RtV and ToW and I hope you are willing to join us. This is just the kind of careful observation we need more of. Please consider becoming a tester if you have the time.

I am very glad you like the game.

Chuck

(in reply to Harain)
Post #: 2
RE: My list of bugs - 8/13/2009 2:15:56 PM   
oldspec4

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 11/1/2004
Status: offline
Excellent list of items here

(in reply to Harain)
Post #: 3
RE: My list of bugs - 8/13/2009 2:43:46 PM   
Harain

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 8/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

This is a very fine list. I do not agree with every recommendation you make but the list contains very good, detailed reports on many bugs. I have been on the beta test team for RtV and ToW and I hope you are willing to join us. This is just the kind of careful observation we need more of. Please consider becoming a tester if you have the time.

I am very glad you like the game.

Chuck



Well, I have all the time in the world, being a retired programmer, and would love to beta test games such as this

(in reply to cpdeyoung)
Post #: 4
RE: My list of bugs - 8/13/2009 3:03:31 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline
1. Corrected it for the patch.
2. I think it's WAD, but will check
3. I need to simulate this, but the general rule has been already changed for the patch, now when major country will attack from the allied minor country territory (Diplo Strength decides) it will claim enemy land for them. As an example, Germans attacking Poland from Slovakia will get the terrain for Germany.
4. Will investigate
5. Will investigate
6. Partially corrected, hopefully will be done for patch
7. Not a question for me, but I'll ask
8. We have changed this a little bit so it needs testing how does it works now.
9. IIRC tanks are pretty fast at the desert, as long as they have got supplies.
10. We are still debating this
11. To be honest the Winter makes as much damage for the Russians as for the Germans and I think that general mechanism works fine as it is. How severe is a winter for specific country can be set in country file, so I would rather prefer to test different values, than putting new feature. Also this slow down hurts Germans in longer perspective as they only can relly on Blitzkrieg. Russia becomes stronger with every month.
12. It's WAD, resource hex is a kind of city. There was always some military presence in such areas, at least entry gates guards.
13. This is still gamebalancing issues and a feel. Works as intended but we see that players would like to get some hints about those penalties. So we will try to uncover some of them.
14. Again, this is the feel of the game. We have added some more tweaks here and there and I think that now Russia doesn't become so weak. I must say that I like the scorched earth idea.


A, B, C, D - I need to take a look what has been already done, and what can be improved further.



On the side note, as Chuck says, a very good report that is very helpfull for us. We have limited resources and we are able to play a limited games, such feedback is a pot of gold.
Also you might considering to join the merry beta team.


Thank you very much.

_____________________________


(in reply to oldspec4)
Post #: 5
RE: My list of bugs - 8/13/2009 3:12:31 PM   
Harain

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 8/8/2006
Status: offline
As I posted before, would love joining the beta team

just mail me at ruifcmsantos@netcabo.pt with the details

(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 6
RE: My list of bugs - 8/13/2009 6:56:46 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline
I'm not able to reproduce points 3 and 4

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(in reply to Harain)
Post #: 7
RE: My list of bugs - 8/13/2009 7:15:53 PM   
Harain

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 8/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

I'm not able to reproduce points 3 and 4



point 3 is making a unit retreat to an enemy hex, it will claim that hex for itself. Always happens, seen it happen in every single game dozens of time.
As an example, imagine you have an isolated british unit in a french hex. If a german unit attacks it and it retreats into a french hex, then it's fine. But, if it gets attacked and lans in a german hex, it will take ownership of that hex for great britain, instead of back to france (since it was on a french hex, the hex should be claimed for france, at least with the current rules, dunno how the patch changes affected that.

Point 4 is more serious. Start a new game as germany in the 1st scenario, purchase a new airborne unit and deploy it in Vienna, then end turn. When done, select the new airborne division in Vienna, click on the parachute icon, then click on Bratislava in Slovakia and bum... it's now german owned lol. And even more funny, just noticed it now while recreating it for you, Slovakia actually surrenders to Poland lol. This is really bad

< Message edited by Harain -- 8/13/2009 11:14:05 PM >

(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 8
RE: My list of bugs - 8/13/2009 11:11:46 PM   
Joram

 

Posts: 3198
Joined: 7/15/2005
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I have reproduced both though for point 3, for me at least, the unit has to be cut off and out of supply. For some reason then the hex reverts to the nation of the unit. Maybe why that is what happens for airborne too.

(in reply to Harain)
Post #: 9
RE: My list of bugs - 8/13/2009 11:59:58 PM   
Harain

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 8/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joram

I have reproduced both though for point 3, for me at least, the unit has to be cut off and out of supply. For some reason then the hex reverts to the nation of the unit. Maybe why that is what happens for airborne too.



Ok, can't believe no one ever seen this bug, happens left and right with all games I played.

Here's an example: open this saved game, select the XXIV. Armeekorps at 107,97 south of Luxemburg, then attack the british unit nw of it. It should retreat to a german hex and claim it for britain, even though it came from a french hex. If it doesn't retreat or dies, just abort and reload till it retreats nw. Can't miss it.

This happens with every nation all the time, and can be a problem: had 1 game where a similar thing made 90% of france belong to Slovakia lol

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Joram)
Post #: 10
RE: My list of bugs - 8/14/2009 12:16:51 AM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline
OK, I have reproduced the errors, will take care of them.

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(in reply to Harain)
Post #: 11
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