Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese?

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Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/14/2009 4:00:07 PM

CEDeaton

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I realize that it's way too early to say for AE, but has anyone ever managed to win a long campaign against a competent allied PBEM player in vanila WITP?

If so, in what year did you get the victory?

< Message edited by CraigDeaton -- 8/14/2009 4:09:57 PM >

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/14/2009 4:25:39 PM

SireChaos

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I think there was at least one PBEM GC where the Allied player game up sometime in �43 because he saw no way to win.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/14/2009 4:27:52 PM

AcePylut

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There was one guy that managed to keep the KB intact until '44ish, accelerated a number of carriers, and smashed the US CV's and won the war. IIRC was something like 10-15 US CV's destroyed to 1 or 2 Jap CV's. It eliminated the US CV threat.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/14/2009 5:05:20 PM

EUBanana

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If you mean on points, than many (even most, almost!).

If you mean won the whole war, then not so many, but still a fair few.�

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/14/2009 5:21:59 PM

Shark7

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I must be doing pretty well then, cause I'm going into 1943 and so far the biggest ships I have lost in my vanilla PBEM are three of the Katori class CLs. I don't take many risks with my carriers cause I know they are irreplacable. That is probably true of most JFBs.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/14/2009 5:43:14 PM

terje439

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Roy2008 will when our game progresses that far (if I have bases left by then that is

)

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/14/2009 6:05:04 PM

CEDeaton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

If you mean on points, than many (even most, almost!).

If you mean won the whole war, then not so many, but still a fair few.�

Agree that a win on pure points, while it can be a challenge, is probably not terribly uncommon. I should have clarified that I was talking about an outright win, per the game's victory conditions.

In my experience, even an IJN player that carefully husbands their naval forces to preserve their threat will eventually get buried by the raw production the allies can bring to bear. The Long Range air assets and the plethora of smaller carriers that can be amassed, in particular, allow them to move about with relative impunity and eventually will make the Japanese position untenable.

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Semper Fi,
Craig

It's always pilot error. Sometimes the idiot just doesn't know how to fly a broken aircraft.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/14/2009 6:16:01 PM

Chad Harrison

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Per the games victory conditions? Then many. The Jan 1st 1943 Auto Victory was how most Japanese players 'won'.

What I take the Japanese Auto Victory as meaning is that the effort in the Pacific has gone so badly that the Allies would be 100% on the defensive until Germany fell. Then the entire focus would be on Japan. This would make the war drag on for years, but defeat would have come to Japan no matter which way you cut it. It would have just happend *years* later than it really did. By all means, this would be a 'victory' for Japan though when compared with what happened in real life.

In reality, Japan fell in 1945 to a forces that were constantly ignored and passed due to the Europe first priority. This included a general lack of better troops, supplies, fuel, equipment, shipping, planes, you name it.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/14/2009 6:25:34 PM

EUBanana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CraigDeaton
Agree that a win on pure points, while it can be a challenge, is probably not terribly uncommon. I should have clarified that I was talking about an outright win, per the game's victory conditions.

Well, the victory conditions include auto-victory on January 1st 1943. Thats what I mean by 'on points'. If the Japs have 4 times as many points as the Allies on that date, by the victory conditions, game over, Japs win.

Of course almost always people would keep playing anyway, and then often, though by no means always, the Allies would go on to win.

I think in AE, as it's more realistic again, while I dont think I'd count out Japanese outright wins completely, I think they'll be much rarer than they were in WITP. Ground combat is a hell of lot bloodier than it was in WITP from what I've seen, and given how throttled the Allies are in infantry squads I wouldn't be surprised if the Japs can capitalise on that little change against India and Australia.

I suspect it'll be harder for them to win on points as well, but from the WITP AARs I saw I think, if anything, Japanese auto-victory in 1943 was the most likely outcome, so thats probably not amiss.

I don't think it's really about winning anyway, as someone on here said, you don't play to win the war but to experience it. Besides, I dont think of a pbem as one long game anyway, it's really a set of discrete and more comprehendable campaigns (Malaya, Java, Burma, Guadalcanal, etc), each of which is interesting in its own right, and may have a winner or a loser.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/14/2009 7:56:58 PM

CEDeaton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

I don't think it's really about winning anyway, as someone on here said, you don't play to win the war but to experience it. Besides, I dont think of a pbem as one long game anyway, it's really a set of discrete and more comprehendable campaigns (Malaya, Java, Burma, Guadalcanal, etc), each of which is interesting in its own right, and may have a winner or a loser.

That's DEEP man. Were you a Philosophy major in college?

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Semper Fi,
Craig

It's always pilot error. Sometimes the idiot just doesn't know how to fly a broken aircraft.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/14/2009 8:56:53 PM

Chad Harrison

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Besides, I dont think of a pbem as one long game anyway, it's really a set of discrete and more comprehendable campaigns (Malaya, Java, Burma, Guadalcanal, etc), each of which is interesting in its own right, and may have a winner or a loser.

That's why it drives me crazy to see people quit a PBEM after the results of one battle. The most universale case is either side losing a lot of their carriers to some bad die rolls in a single battle. Yeah that sucks, but now you have the challenge of trying to salvage your war effort; regardless of which side you are playing.

To me, that is what makes PBEM so much fun. You dont just quit after things go sour. You fight it out to the bitter end.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/14/2009 9:17:30 PM

CEDeaton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Besides, I dont think of a pbem as one long game anyway, it's really a set of discrete and more comprehendable campaigns (Malaya, Java, Burma, Guadalcanal, etc), each of which is interesting in its own right, and may have a winner or a loser.

That's why it drives me crazy to see people quit a PBEM after the results of one battle. The most universale case is either side losing a lot of their carriers to some bad die rolls in a single battle. Yeah that sucks, but now you have the challenge of trying to salvage your war effort; regardless of which side you are playing.

To me, that is what makes PBEM so much fun. You dont just quit after things go sour. You fight it out to the bitter end.

We're getting a bit off-topic here, but I'd have to say I agree with you in general. I had a well-known member of the WitP community (who shall remain nameless) throw in the towel when I took Johnston Island in Dec '41. I thought that was pretty premature.

However, if a game gets to a point that one player is simply "along for the ride" and there's no longer a challenge to be had for either player, I think capitulation and starting a new game is a viable option.

These campaigns represent a huge investment in time and if someone just isn't having fun, there really shouldn't be any reason for them to have to invest two more years just so the game can officially end.

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Semper Fi,
Craig

It's always pilot error. Sometimes the idiot just doesn't know how to fly a broken aircraft.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/15/2009 1:31:33 AM

bradfordkay

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In our CHS PBEM, ChezDaJez is leading me by a score of about 27,000 to 21,000 (late June 1944). From the looks of things, neither of us will achieve an auto victory - which means that at the end of the game he should score a victory on points.

Honestly, I don't think that either of us really care about the game's victory conditions because the war has been so enjoyable to play out...

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/15/2009 3:11:05 AM

khyberbill

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quote:

If so, in what year did you get the victory?

The furthest I have gotten is late 43 with Nik Mod. My opponent quit when he lost the last of his carriers while trying to retake Guadacanal. This was after losing Australia and a lot of the American army (caught at sea during several attempts to reinforce Australia). He threw in the towel when he saw the invasion force heading for Noumea. The point ratio was about 4:1 at this time.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/15/2009 4:27:10 AM

Xxzard

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The old old game played by Honda and one of the game testers resulted in a resounding Japanese victory in 43 or 44, with a mega KB sinking many essex's and every single carrier of the Independence class. In this same game Honda took all of Australia, and India, and presumably China. He simply won.

In a more recent game, Castor Troy has won two devastating battles vs. different Allied players (because the 1st called it quits after the first battle) and is moving into 1944 with India, China, and Russia fully controlled. He also landed in N. Oz in 1943 to cut off Allied troops in Timor. It's a Nikmod game, so flak is impossible to overcome, and allied bombers are uncounterable, so he can't win the land airwar, but there won't be enough US carriers to make any move until 45, and many many LCUs have been destroyed.

The game I recall going the furthest actually ended at the preset end date in 46, and included mass kamikaze attacks on landing forces at Kagoshima with A7M's. Obviously that wasn't quite a Jap victory though.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/15/2009 5:30:38 AM

Canoerebel

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I think Raverdave finally conceded his PBEM (Dark Side of the Moon?). He had taken a pounding and was having trouble getting untracked from a Japanese invasion of Australia. Great AAR, but I think he finally grew tired of seemingly endless punishment.

I think Miller almost conceded in his current game with...maybe Tocaff? Miller took a terrible pounding around Darwin. But I think he's decided to continue and he may well come back.

John III, NYGiants, and Q-Ball currently have a multi-player games going vs. two Allied opponent's whose backs are up against the wall. It's 9/42 and there's a decent chance the Japs can score an auto-victory after taking most of India and New Zealand.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/15/2009 7:04:55 AM

Xxzard

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I believe the game Miller was in was the one against CastorTroy. Miller decided to opt out after another tough battle and another player took over. See my previous post, I have followed that game closely.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/15/2009 8:36:09 PM

scout1

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Win in the Pacific War as Japan takes on a meaning that is foreign to most of us. We think of total victory, marching down the opponents Main Street in their Capitol .... As Japan, victory means not being wiped completely off the face of the earth and destroying the Allied will for Total Victory. Japan's own intelligence reports prior to the war were alarming to read (from their point of view) unless they could get the Allies to sue for peace and be ok with all the new land/regions they took .....

PH was a tactical victory but a strategic mistake for Japan. They should have ignored the US entirely and hit the British at Singapore. Isolationism was still rampant in the US at the time and they may have continued with the attitude of "Not my war" ......

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/15/2009 10:54:44 PM

Yamato hugger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CraigDeaton

I realize that it's way too early to say for AE, but has anyone ever managed to win a long campaign against a competent allied PBEM player in vanila WITP?

If so, in what year did you get the victory?

3/9/44 when the allies surrendered:

2 day turns, took about a year and a half to play.

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/15/2009 11:42:11 PM

jjax

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

quote:

ORIGINAL: CraigDeaton

I realize that it's way too early to say for AE, but has anyone ever managed to win a long campaign against a competent allied PBEM player in vanila WITP?

If so, in what year did you get the victory?

3/9/44 when the allies surrendered:

2 day turns, took about a year and a half to play.

Wow, you must have had a great(well at least with patience) PBEM opponent to stick with the game so long even though he was getting his butt whipped!

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RE: Has anyone ever won a PBEM Long GC as Japanese? - 8/16/2009 12:21:06 AM

EUBanana

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You can see why there are accusations of Allied Edition going around...

...because WITP was really Japanese Edition.

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