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Assault errors and far too easy

 
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Assault errors and far too easy - 6/7/2002 3:01:00 PM   
shoglic

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/7/2002
Status: offline 		Why can not Ski and bike troops assault tanks?
I takes about 1 sek to jump off a pair of skiis or a bike.

Anyway, is it possible to give the AI more than X2 points (Hard mode) when playing random campaign, since X2 is far to easy, X3-4 would be better.
Post #: 1
- 6/7/2002 5:37:44 PM   
OKW-73

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 9/1/2001
From: Cyberspace, Finland
Status: offline 		Im not sure about 7.1 version, but if i remember correct, in 6.1 bike crews couldnt even go in house hex...did learn it hard way ;)

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Post #: 2
- 6/7/2002 8:18:33 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		shoglic: Seems like hard is pretty hard to me. I'm having enough trouble with the tons of mines out there. Are you playing the standard 3100pt. force? Britain has 3500 for soem reason, while the USSR and GE has 3100. Also you might find the enemy attacking you on hard, considerably easier than attacking him, or if you have something of an inferior force. I don't think any human can survive, very well, the Finns as the USSR, if the settings are on hard. You might also try using the AI advantage toggle, which is a minor help.

There's also a number of other things you can do. One of which is to somewhat constantly update the AI force pool. If you can always play on hard, which is 2X, then before each battle estimate your force total, which I guess you'd include possible support. What are we getting each turn for upgrades, 600pts.? Although guesstimating might be more profitable, what you could do is count the points on a piece of paper everytime you upgarde. For example, say you upgrade a 25pt. unit to a 75pt. unit, then your core is now 3150pts. Repairing them doesn't add to your core total. The point to counting them is you'll know precisely where your core total stands so that you can manually adjust the AI force total. If you want to use hard but want it at 3X instead of 2X, and you have a 4000pt. force later, use the hard setting for 2X, and set the AI force at 6000. Always make the AI force 150% of your core, and use the hard setting to double 1.5 to 3.0. Of this is a bit of a problem when he assaults you, because while 12000, is 3 times 4000, when he assaults I think his force doubles yours anyway, and I don't know if you're overriding the AI force total in preferences if it will mulitply that, which, if it did, would make you facing a 24000pt. force. If you're going to play with a 3X as a standard minimum disadvantage, then I would suggest you start out with a smaller core, pointwise, and keep it relatively small, because otherwise I think it'll explode on you on way or the other. I don't think it's possible to have a logical force and 24000pts. for the AI, for example.

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Post #: 3
- 6/7/2002 9:04:22 PM   
shoglic

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/7/2002
Status: offline 		I usually plays with 3 patoons of SS-infantery +2 Pak +1 Specops platoon.
On hard mode the AI gets only 10-20 tanks +40 units infantery and some artillery, that is way to easy when your units are elite.
I would like some 20-40 tanks +40-80 infantery and massive artillery support, and no, I do not play with mines.

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Post #: 4
Well if you want hard battles - 6/7/2002 10:27:31 PM   
Gary Tatro

 

Posts: 1213
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
Status: offline 		You should play PBEM games against a human opponent. Or order Lost Victories-Mega Campaign. I consider myself to be extremly good a trounceing the computer and many times I do not get DV playing Lost Victories.
Another idea would be to download some of the senarios. One I can tell you that will make you want to through your computer out the window is "Red River" Terrificaly hard senario. Most of these you can find on numberous websites.

Just a couple of suggestions.

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Post #: 5
- 6/8/2002 12:25:33 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		shoglic: Well you see? That's part of your problem. Yes, SS units will make things fairly easy. Try regular Wehrmacht or better yet fight as Rusky against GE. I was just thinking of this the other day when reading another forum, that if one thinks a given game is too easy, it's often because people either take the absolute best units or they get gamey as can be.

The AI becomes considerably more difficult when you restrict one's manuevers to AI ones. For example, I won't bombard with artillery either to expose mines or to eliminate them. I also won't airborne to his rear (though I will on occassion use a squad of commandos, but that's alright considering he doesn't leave the rear unmanned, and that though it's usually something of a profitable venture for me, it can go sour real quick). Not memorizing where the minefields are either, by remembering deployment lines, helps too (though the minefield displacement seems to be working a bit different these days, as I've said, I've had minefields generally 1-2 deep, get 3-out-of-4 deep in a place, and possibly 4-out-of-4 in another). Another thing I can think of right off, is to never use smoke from anything but infantry, since the AI does not.

There's something else too. I recall at one time seeing an experience/morale modifier between battles, but now I don't see it. I suspect that I must've played generated instead of WWII for a while, and there it was to be found. If you were to play generated with that assumption, you could play standard hard, or maybe even straight up, and just boost the enemy to 120 skill and see what happens. I think even the SS would shudder and find things difficult.

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Post #: 6
- 6/8/2002 12:33:50 AM   
shoglic

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/7/2002
Status: offline 		The problem if u are using regular wehrmacht infantery is that u can not assault tanks (only 10% chance or so) Since i play with only 2 pak and no tanks i am dead meat, even if the comp only got one tank platon. And the AI always got too many tanks.

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Post #: 7
- 6/8/2002 1:29:43 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		shoglic: Such are the problems of going strictly infantry, early on that is. You could always pick engineers (which may be too easy against tanks, but usually less apt against infantry). In any case, you could always start the campaign where the infantry start getting panzerfausts and such. Or there's the other route, that is of picking some anti-tank guns for support.

I think the best idea is to either play generated and jack up the AI experience or play with a more balanced core, to where bad use of your armor will be costly (yeah, I know you don't have armor now). Have regular Wehrmacht to fight infantry and armor anti-tank to fight AI armor. Myself, I'd rather play with pieces which are made to counter armor, than expecting a single unit counter all against it. I am kind of mystified though, because this 10% you speak of seems to in your opinion make things difficult but then you complain of ease. Perhaps it's more fun to deal with a vulnerable infantry, and learn how to use what armor/ATGs you may have that are somewhat vulnerable too. I generally use my somewhat worthless infantry just to keep my armor from getting bum-rushed, while the armor tries to pick off any and all comers. I would never expect my infantry to be the main force of disabling enemy armor (other than the paks you mention). I say live a little, buy a tank section or two, to boot, then you have something of a balanced force and you don't have to have uber-infantry to have any hopes of stopping much armor.

I have with the 3100pts. in core, generally like 30 tanks, 8-12 AA units, 4 platoons of infantry/engineers, 2-4 ATGs, and some artillery and a 'hard' battle is often very tense and difficult, though I may win every time (at least as GE). WIth the difficulty I'm having clearing mines recently, I sure wouldn't want to face a 'hard' AI and have to go through minefields both.

I don't think there's any pure infantry units up to 1941 have much hope of successfully stopping armor. The one that springs somewhat to mind is the USSR ones, but then their experience is so poor that it generally negates the effectiveness of the Molotov. Since SS is too easy, as you're doing things, and Wehrmacht too difficult, what you might want to do is blend the two. Maybe 50% Wehermacht and 50% SS, or 50% Wehrmacht and 50% engineers.

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Post #: 8
- 6/8/2002 2:10:30 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		shoglic: On the ski troops issue I have something. Once upon a time I mentioned on this forum that ski troops also wouldn't clear mines. At that time I was told this didn't happen because they were considered 'mounted' like the Cossacks, which also didn't clear mines. I must say it does confuse me a bit though, because now I've found that Cossacks DEFINITELY do clear mines, so though somebody else told me that, I do start to wonder if maybe ski troops do clear mines on my part. I don't know, seems like I exhausted all the possibilities and they didn't clear them, and I have heard that they weren't able to assault from others, though I've never tried it. If all this is true, the ski troops are a pretty raw deal. Oh, another thing, at least it's the case with the GE ski troops, they don't ever use their smoke grenades when retreating.

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Post #: 9
- 6/8/2002 2:36:22 AM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		Ski Troops are a 29 class in the OOB, which means non-infantry therefore no assaulting or mine clearing. Sorry I didn't write the OOB's

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Post #: 10
- 6/8/2002 5:44:10 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		shoglic: I thought I was incorrect in saying that each WWII campaign battle allows you to alter the enemy experience/morale on the fly and that it was the generated campaign instead. Well, thankfully, it turns out I was right in the first place (maybe the generated has it too) . Everyone is familiar with the deployment screen, where you select manual deploy or auto-deploy, but this "AI level" category is found on the the next menu (which looks quite similar) which is where 'start turn' and 'exit battle'. I haven't tried bumping the AI's level of exp/mor yet, but it ought to make the complaint that one's core get's "too experienced" over time as null.

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Post #: 11
- 6/8/2002 6:57:31 AM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		The AI, can also be changed in the preference screen settings, left side middle this option mirrors the setting in the start turn screen button you describe. It's values can be adjusted from 0-200% this will increase the AI experience and morale.

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Post #: 12
- 6/8/2002 5:34:25 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		gmenfan: Interesting, yes. The menu I described tells you what it does, while where you mention it, it leaves you to guess what is meant by level. I assume the manual must fill in to describe it therefore. Seems to me it's the universal quasi-fix for anyone who has too easy a time. Tweak it enough and you'll always find your opponent just where you want them, which, a few misapplied things like the US having far too much experience, can be remedied in the opposite direction too. hmm

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Post #: 13
ski and motorcycle troops - 6/10/2002 7:15:08 AM   
Stahlhelm

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/22/2002
From: Australia
Status: offline 		the problem the game has with Ski and motorcycle units is that it tends to treat them as vehicles and not as troops using skis or bikes as just their mode of transport.

In earlier versions of steel panthers, motorcycles could enter houses. I'd always assumed this represented them riding up to a building, jumping off and rushing inside to take up firing positions.

They can't do that now, but cavalry seem to treat houses as if they weren't there, in fact they don't seem to pay a movement penalty for going through them :confused:

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Post #: 14
- 6/10/2002 8:30:36 AM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		Charles_22: Not necessarly, if you use the AI level adjustment button in the start turn screen and hover your mouse pointer over it, it will tell you that this increases the AI experience and morale by that specific percent. It's not as explanitory if you do the same in the preference screen though.

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Post #: 15
- 6/11/2002 3:44:04 AM   
MacCready

 

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: USA
Status: offline 		My AI is always set at 200 level and AI advantage is always ON.

Though the AI is very easy to predict,If you design the battle carefully (Place the AI's units for it.)you can still have some serious fun.

and then there are scenerios,campaigns,and Mega-campaigns...

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Post #: 16
- 6/11/2002 7:38:31 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		gmenfan: Yeah, that's what I was saying, that the preferences place doesn't explain it, while the setup before turn one does.

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Post #: 17
Re: Well if you want hard battles - 6/11/2002 9:33:53 PM   
Scharfschütze

 

Posts: 538
Joined: 8/27/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gary Tatro
[B]You should play PBEM games against a human opponent. Or order Lost Victories-Mega Campaign. I consider myself to be extremly good a trounceing the computer and many times I do not get DV playing Lost Victories.
Another idea would be to download some of the senarios. One I can tell you that will make you want to through your computer out the window is "Red River" Terrificaly hard senario. Most of these you can find on numberous websites.

Just a couple of suggestions. [/B][/QUOTE]

I fully agree with Gary. Playing he AI in random or campaign battles is pretty pointless. PBEM is the way to go, this will provide a real challange against a real opponent. Once you get into pbeming, you will never fight the AI again. I am always quite surprised to find people bickering about minor faults and AI insufficencies when they could be playing REAL games. Go PBEM. Period.

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Post #: 18
- 6/14/2002 7:28:18 AM   
MacCready

 

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: USA
Status: offline 		Actually PBEM is pale in comparison to TCP\IP play(online).
This is the true test of one's abilities or lack thereoff.

Yes PBEM is fun,playing another human is usually fun..

But AI battles,scenerios& campaigns is also fun.
and always ready to go,this isnt always the case with myself or other people sometimes.

A good online game takes 6-9 hours I've found,complete.

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Post #: 19
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