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HQs - how far from units? - 8/25/2009 1:42:37 AM

wolf727

Posts: 29
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From: From Italy
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Hi

I have just started playing Advanced Tactics after a long time.

I remember there was a quick rule regarding how close an HQ should be to other units if the other units were to receive a benefit or advantage. I can't remember exactly the number of hexes units had to be within HQ distance to receive this special bonus. Was it 5 hexes, for example?

Furthermore, what advantage does the HQ give to units that are within hex range? Was it moral, attacking bonuses?

I do realise the HQ affect units under its command with all the other factors like moral, readiness and so on, but what was the close proximity rule referring to in particular?

Thanks.

wolf727

< Message edited by wolf727 -- 8/25/2009 1:50:30 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: HQs - how far from units? - 8/26/2009 3:43:27 PM

Grymme

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Hi

I am at work, so not entirely sure. But i think the basic radius is 4 hexes. At 5 hexes its 80 % HQ effect, 6 hexes 60 % and so on. (there should be a small square called HQ power or something like that). And the HQ gives a special HQ bonus up to 100 % independent of other factors, applied to both defensive and offensive combat.

This is just of the top of my head.

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 8/26/2009 4:13:59 PM

wolf727

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From: From Italy
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Hi Grymme

Thanks for your "off the top of your head" information.

I wish I knew what page of the manual I can find the information.

Hey! Shouldn't you be working instead of reading the forums? I just noticed you're still online. Shame on you. Don't worry, only kidding.

Thanks for your input - I do appreciate it.

Wolf727

< Message edited by wolf727 -- 8/26/2009 4:26:15 PM >

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Post #: 3

RE: HQs - how far from units? - 8/26/2009 5:14:08 PM

Tufkal2

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As an additional input:
Iirc there are three boni you can get from a HQ but I think they are only for land units:
First one is the mentioned above combat bonus. It is listed for each unit in the small table under the unit where it says Staff and HqPw. The exact range and boni depend on the scenario being played but I think for most scenarios the values from Grymme above should be close to the real thing.
Second one is that HQs help the units regain lost morale quicker (details are on p 42).
Third one is that HQs help units gain XP faster (page 42).
Hope this helps

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 8/26/2009 6:14:04 PM

wolf727

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Hi Lunaticus

Thanks for your helpful feedback from Germany.

wolf727

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Post #: 5

RE: HQs - how far from units? - 8/30/2009 10:39:04 AM

british exil

Posts: 1686
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From: Lower Saxony Germany
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I tend to use three kind of HQ's.

1st Main HQ, which handles the supply and pp.
2nd Battle HQ's which follow battle units and give them moral boost.
3rd Training HQ's who train the new units to a certain amount of xp, so that they can be used to rebuild damaged units or build completly new units.

Thus my battle HQ's dont need to carry so much weight with them and can move along with their battlegroups.

Training is behind the frontline so no green troops will be used straight away, unless the front is collapsing.

Of course it costs a bit to have an extra HQ sitting around not doing much in the way of fighting (staff, trucks, supply)but in the way of getting fresh trained men to the frontlines, is worth it from my point of view.

Any other ways of doing things? I am willing to learn more efficent ways of doing things. Doing the HQ thing the way I do was learning from PBEM games.

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 8/30/2009 11:19:27 AM

wolf727

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Hi british exil

That was an interesting way of handling HQs - I must try that out the next time I play Advanced Tactics.

I haven't played the game for a long time so I'm a bit rusty and have forgotten some of the minor intricate details like rules on "xp". You mentioned a third HQ for Training. Do new units gain xp just by being present as times goes by? - I forgot how they gain xp.

Thanks for that information - very informative.

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 8/30/2009 12:04:36 PM

british exil

Posts: 1686
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As far as I understand the game, yes new units gain XP from their HQ.
They "train" while being under HQ influence. But of course they gain more XP being on the frontline and in battle.

HQ's also gain XP as the game moves along. A training HQ will still need time to build a strong fighting force, but will not send raw recruits into their deaths.

Tis better to have 30xp on the line than 8xp, which new troops have.
Plus when rebuilding a unit 30xp will benefit a veteran unit than using an 8xp.

It is just really a matter of time, when to place the units on the line. Using the Training HQ is just giving units a few turns before they are ready. So units that have been built 4 turns prior, join the line. Still with a bit of xp but can hold their position.

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 8/30/2009 12:30:24 PM

Ande

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you shouldn't replace veterans with new troops at all when possible, it is better to merge veteran units and create another separate green unit . You can think of it as trying to get as much free xp from the game as possible. If you add 20 rifles at 10xp to a unit with 20 rifles at 70 xp the resulting unit will get 40 xp. I think the game stops give you xp at 50 and that means the game will only give you 10*40=400 xp, if you instead let the 20 new rifles be in their own unit you will may be given 20*40=800xp if the new unit doesn't fight.
This works on subformation level so you can transfer away crack rifles and fill up the unit with fresh troops together with with elite AT-cannons and mortars

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 8/30/2009 1:47:58 PM

wolf727

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Thanks "british exil" and "Ande" for the information. I really have to look into this "xp" issue. I gather units don't need to be inside HQ to gain xp.

I never really looked at the issue of xp before - I just assumed it was of minor importance. I see now that it probably does make a big difference.

Thanks for the input.

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Post #: 10

RE: HQs - how far from units? - 8/30/2009 1:57:09 PM

british exil

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@ Ande,

Thanks for mentioning that.

But you are 100% correct. I noticed this when I played a PBEM, was transfering greens to the vets, weaking them further.

Often I find myself being a bit reluctant to "desolve" a vet unit. And transfer new (trained)units in. Hoping that they will still be strong enough. Will try to keep that in mind when I play PBEM. Better to recreate the unit and fight another day, than weaken it by refilling - only to lose it in the next battle.

Against an AI opponant: I find that the AI doesn't exploit that failiure. And as I have played the AI more that H2H, I tend to make mistakes that harm me in H2H games. Wishing that there was an undo button when it comes to transfers.

Good that we have the forum here to form us into better players.

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 8/30/2009 4:46:49 PM

wolf727

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Hi british exil

Yes I am beginnig to see how much importance this "xp" is according to you and "Ande".

Now you mentioned about the AI, has this improved at all lately? Because when playing against an AI+ it just "churns out" units to such an extent that it is hard to beat and seems a little unrealistic or atrificial. Just wondered if lately they have made the AI at level "AI+" a little more realistic ot reasonable?

Juat a thought.

Just noticed you are playing from Germany. Myself I am playing from Italy for the time being.

< Message edited by wolf727 -- 8/30/2009 4:49:24 PM >

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 8/30/2009 5:45:19 PM

british exil

Posts: 1686
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Coming back to HQ's.

Does anyone use pure SS staff as a HQ? Do they have andvantage compared to normal staff? As SS units have compared to normal units.

< Message edited by british exil -- 8/30/2009 6:42:43 PM >

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Post #: 13

RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/5/2009 1:31:49 AM

wolf727

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Sorry british exil, I certainly don't know the answer to your question on SS Staff HQ.

I am trying out your three types of HQs (Main HQ, Battle HQ and Training HQ) when a question came to me whilst playing a game.

The Battle HQ you have it to follow units around giving them a moral boost, but does it still give a moral boost to units that do not belong to that particular HQ - units that do not have the same colour as the HQ?

wolf727

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Post #: 14

RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/5/2009 1:57:14 AM

Barthheart

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolf727

Sorry british exil, I certainly don't know the answer to your question on SS Staff HQ.

I am trying out your three types of HQs (Main HQ, Battle HQ and Training HQ) when a question came to me whilst playing a game.

The Battle HQ you have it to follow units around giving them a moral boost, but does it still give a moral boost to units that do not belong to that particular HQ - units that do not have the same colour as the HQ?

wolf727

@Exile - SS staff (in WaW I assume) don't give any more bonus that regular staff.... But i use them 'cause it looks cool! :)

@Wolf - HQ's only give moral/comabt to units that belong to them (ie have the same colour.)

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/5/2009 5:20:16 AM

wolf727

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From: From Italy
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Thanks Barthheart for the info. Now on looking at it again, it was kind of a silly question I made.

And there will be more... Once again thanks for replying.

wolf727

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Post #: 16

RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/5/2009 11:15:04 AM

british exil

Posts: 1686
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolf727

Thanks Barthheart for the info. Now on looking at it again, it was kind of a silly question I made.

And there will be more... Once again thanks for replying.

wolf727

There are no silly questions mate.I think we all had/have the same problems. Ask and you will get an answer.
Some questions may seem silly, but I think you will find someone here who has thought about the sme thing but just hasn't had the courage to ask.

But question such as the SS HQ get answered in such a nice way. Cool optics in AT!!! Never saw it that way Barthheart, but will try it out myself.

But strange,silly questions? That is another reason for the forum.

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Post #: 17

RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/5/2009 12:53:16 PM

wolf727

Posts: 29
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From: From Italy
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Ok british exil, thanks for your message of confort!

I think, I too, should start using SS HQs "'cause it looks cool!".

Don't worry just kidding around.

If you want to see really cool looking uniforms, you should see what the Italian police - the Carabinieri - wear here in Italy. They have the "coolest" looking uniform in all of Europe.

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Post #: 18

RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/19/2009 12:22:29 AM

rjh1971

Posts: 4919
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From: Madrid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

I tend to use three kind of HQ's.

1st Main HQ, which handles the supply and pp.
2nd Battle HQ's which follow battle units and give them moral boost.
3rd Training HQ's who train the new units to a certain amount of xp, so that they can be used to rebuild damaged units or build completly new units.

Thus my battle HQ's dont need to carry so much weight with them and can move along with their battlegroups.

Training is behind the frontline so no green troops will be used straight away, unless the front is collapsing.

Of course it costs a bit to have an extra HQ sitting around not doing much in the way of fighting (staff, trucks, supply)but in the way of getting fresh trained men to the frontlines, is worth it from my point of view.

Any other ways of doing things? I am willing to learn more efficent ways of doing things. Doing the HQ thing the way I do was learning from PBEM games.

I'll have to use the HQ gained while capturing Kiev, Minsk and Riga for training purposes rather than have them sitting idly. Thanks for the tip
And also I must stop from reinforcing frontline units directly with just recently built forces...

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/19/2009 10:19:13 PM

wolf727

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Hello rjh1971

I too have to learn how to best use the HQs. At the moment I'm trying to figure out how to use them. Sometimes I end up doing the old way by reinforcing frontline units with recently built units.

However, I have a question. When I do start up a new HQ which is to be used only for training, then do I not have to start wasting time and resources in supplying that new HQ with trucks? The trucks will be needed to be able to send the units to the front. Without a sufficient quantity of trucks, the HQ would be useless. Previously it was my first main HQ that I had to supply with trucks only. Now I would have to supply two HQs with trucks! One HQ (the first one) that would provide supplies and PP, and the other HQ for the training.

No one yet has mentioned about the need to spend the extra time and resources just to provide the new HQ (for training units) with trucks. I just discovered that when I started to designate an HQ for training purposes.

wolf727

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/19/2009 10:34:44 PM

wolf727

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Hi rjh1971

Just forgot to mention to you that I see you are a "Gary Grigsby World At War" player. I used to play that game and found it addictive but I gave up playing the game because I felt it had one big fault. Everytime I played as the Axis, it was literally very difficult to win with them. The Axis were always at a disadvantage when playing against the Allies and the Russians. I just could not get the Axis side to make any meaningful advances in the game. Sooner or later the Axis would be crushed by the Allies.

It was this predictability that turned me off form playing the game. What was the point of playing as the Axis if it was almost certain that one was going to lose with them?

Did you not notice this problem or was I really that bad a player? However, there was another person who also made the same remark I was making. So that was enough for me to quit the game - didn't see the point.

I would be please to have a comment from you on this subject. Maybe they have improved on this?

By the way, rjh1971, are you Spanish? I see that you are from Madrid.

wolf727

< Message edited by wolf727 -- 9/19/2009 10:37:05 PM >

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/19/2009 11:22:11 PM

rjh1971

Posts: 4919
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From: Madrid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolf727

Hello rjh1971

I too have to learn how to best use the HQs. At the moment I'm trying to figure out how to use them. Sometimes I end up doing the old way by reinforcing frontline units with recently built units.

However, I have a question. When I do start up a new HQ which is to be used only for training, then do I not have to start wasting time and resources in supplying that new HQ with trucks? The trucks will be needed to be able to send the units to the front. Without a sufficient quantity of trucks, the HQ would be useless. Previously it was my first main HQ that I had to supply with trucks only. Now I would have to supply two HQs with trucks! One HQ (the first one) that would provide supplies and PP, and the other HQ for the training.

No one yet has mentioned about the need to spend the extra time and resources just to provide the new HQ (for training units) with trucks. I just discovered that when I started to designate an HQ for training purposes.

wolf727

I think you can create the new units in the same hex you have your HQ that way you won't need trucks, but you better make a quick check, it's easy to do. Then you would need to move those recently created units to the front, that's the con, a�ternative have yor training HQ near but not close to the frontline, again if you need to move it you may want some trucks or horses.
Another thing to bear in mind is where you attach your new units (to what HQ) because when you change HQ they have a drop in readiness and that means more supply consumption to reach their 100% readiness. I don't know if distance to HQ influence in the rating of training.

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/19/2009 11:30:03 PM

rjh1971

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolf727

Hi rjh1971

Just forgot to mention to you that I see you are a "Gary Grigsby World At War" player. I used to play that game and found it addictive but I gave up playing the game because I felt it had one big fault. Everytime I played as the Axis, it was literally very difficult to win with them. The Axis were always at a disadvantage when playing against the Allies and the Russians. I just could not get the Axis side to make any meaningful advances in the game. Sooner or later the Axis would be crushed by the Allies.

It was this predictability that turned me off form playing the game. What was the point of playing as the Axis if it was almost certain that one was going to lose with them?

Did you not notice this problem or was I really that bad a player? However, there was another person who also made the same remark I was making. So that was enough for me to quit the game - didn't see the point.

I would be please to have a comment from you on this subject. Maybe they have improved on this?

By the way, rjh1971, are you Spanish? I see that you are from Madrid.

wolf727

Well I don't know why for me it's harder to win as Allies, though it may seem weird, I think I have lost most of my latest pbem games playing the allies, not lost but can't get the Axis powers to surrender before Summer 45 and therefore I'm not achieving a decisive victory. It is also true that I was playing against hard core players, but I've played AWD almost non stop for three years.

You should read some of the AARs posted, there are some won by the Axis Powers, in my latest one Xianing beat the crap out of me, him playing the Axis.
You should try Global Glory mod that now comes with the game.
The AI is easily beatable playing either side.

And yes I'm Spanish, from Madrid as it states in my username

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/20/2009 1:08:56 AM

wolf727

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Hola rjh1971

Thank you for replying. Actually, when I was talking about Gary Grigsby's World At War, I forgot to mention that I was referring to playing against the AI. And now you tell me that the AI is easily beatable! Now don't I feel like an idiot. I must have been playing really badly. Maybe I should look at that game again.

About HQs in "Advanced Tactics", yes you can create new units in the same hex. One can have the training HQ produce units in its own hex and then move the units from there, as you said. I forgot about that point. I was assuming that everyone had their training HQ produce units and have them transported immediately up to the front by trucks.

Anyway thanks for the information. By the way, I must be really tired tonight, because you are right, your name is Spanish and I asked you if you are Spanish! I just didn't see your name. How did you learn to write in such good English? Your English is very good! Did you do a lot of English reading? Myself, I am currently in Italy. My mother is Italian, father English and a grandfather who was Argentinian. And I was born in Canada, but I like Europe.

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/22/2009 10:56:44 PM

rjh1971

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From: Madrid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolf727

Hola rjh1971

Thank you for replying. Actually, when I was talking about Gary Grigsby's World At War, I forgot to mention that I was referring to playing against the AI. And now you tell me that the AI is easily beatable! Now don't I feel like an idiot. I must have been playing really badly. Maybe I should look at that game again.

About HQs in "Advanced Tactics", yes you can create new units in the same hex. One can have the training HQ produce units in its own hex and then move the units from there, as you said. I forgot about that point. I was assuming that everyone had their training HQ produce units and have them transported immediately up to the front by trucks.

Anyway thanks for the information. By the way, I must be really tired tonight, because you are right, your name is Spanish and I asked you if you are Spanish! I just didn't see your name. How did you learn to write in such good English? Your English is very good! Did you do a lot of English reading? Myself, I am currently in Italy. My mother is Italian, father English and a grandfather who was Argentinian. And I was born in Canada, but I like Europe.

Oops I thought you meant against a human player, nevermind the first time I played against a human player as Germany I got W. Germany invaded in Winter 40

, I sued for peace

. My advice is for you to read again the manual and give AWD a second chance, you'll discover a great game and a very adictive one.

Back to AT, even though I said I would create new units behind the frontline I find it kind of troublesome, if I do so my frontline units don't get replacements for the cassualties in the battles they were involved, too bad, I know their experience is droping but better that than to be wiped out by a counterattack next turn. I'm nonetheless trying to form one or two units behind the fronline.

About learning English: english school, summers in Ireland, and in the USA, been reading in English since I was 13, having had an Irish girlfriend helped a lot and besides English I learnt some other interesting things

< Message edited by rjh1971 -- 9/22/2009 10:58:48 PM >

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RE: HQs - how far from units? - 9/23/2009 12:50:31 AM

wolf727

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From: From Italy
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Thanks rjh1971. I don't want to keep bothering you but thanks again for your reply.

I was thinking about getting back to Gary Grigsby's World At War only to discover it doesn't play on Vista.

I am using a Dell Inspiron notebook (laptop) and unfortunately it uses Vista. Recently I had a proper strong computer but it was sent to England. I sent it to England only to find later I would have to stay a further year in Italy. I got myself a notebook for the time being. I will have to wait until I get back to the PC in England before I can play Gary Grigsby again.

Yes I was having similar problems in AT with this new way of using HQs. I am not sure how I am going to organize it. Well, well, only two lines on Advanced Tactics and the rest of this message is on general chit-chat! Sorry about that.

Thanks for letting me know how you learned your English - I didn't want to be too personal but I asked the question because I myself have been studying languages over the years. I am always curious on the best technique in learning them.

Okay, I'll leave you in peace. Happy gaming! Ci vediamo!

< Message edited by wolf727 -- 9/23/2009 12:53:25 AM >

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