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Fatigue - 8/26/2009 5:58:49 PM

cantona2

Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
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The new fatigue model is unforgiving. Leave your air units on constant patrol ala WitP at your peril

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Post #: 1

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 2:09:16 AM

dpstafford

Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

The new fatigue model is unforgiving. Leave your air units on constant patrol ala WitP at your peril

Welcome to more micro-management hell.........

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Post #: 2

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 3:17:58 AM

Rob Brennan UK

Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

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sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

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Post #: 3

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 3:29:46 AM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

nothin.

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 8/27/2009 3:31:16 AM >

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Post #: 4

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 3:36:26 AM

sfbaytf

Posts: 1122
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline

I like it. Sending out planes on 8+ hour missions 5+ days a week is unrealistic. You now need to stand down and give units a rest. It also makes sense of the 2 units up and ready for action and 1 on reserve and resting doctrine.

(in reply to cantona2)

Post #: 5

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 4:43:38 AM

dpstafford

Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

Yes, very sensible.

But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.

They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).

In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.

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Post #: 6

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 4:47:20 AM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.

Nice. Then would you please stop bothering people who do, and scaring away people who may sometime soon, that'll be great. Thanks in advance.

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Post #: 7

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 5:58:19 AM

Mike Scholl

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford
In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.

Having bought the game, you are certainly entitled to your opinion..., but I've been playing it for over a year (as a PBEM testor) and haven't found it unplayable. Difficult and challanging certainly..., but hardly unplayable.

(in reply to dpstafford)

Post #: 8

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 6:07:38 AM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

Hey Mike, someone brought up the ops loss rate of the USN PBY4/5/5A in another thread. I'm seeing the same thing, namely that with strictly only 50% search and very few losses to combat (PH and PI early game aside) I just cannot keep the squadrons in planes. Some are full or near full, but some stay with 4 to 6 planes and the pools are empty. Obviously not talking about the Dutch PBY5's which are a separate pool anyway (they get creamed in heavy combat in DEI).

I've done two AI games through late July early August '42, both the same deal.

What have you seen? Are they too brittle and need adjusting? Were the USN Catalinas really that loss prone and in short supply?

< Message edited by witpqs -- 8/27/2009 6:08:00 AM >

(in reply to Mike Scholl)

Post #: 9

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 6:26:15 AM

rockmedic109

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

Yes, very sensible.

But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.

They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).

In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.

FOr a game that is unplayable, there seems to be an awful lot of people playing it.

(in reply to dpstafford)

Post #: 10

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 8:09:11 AM

Sheytan

Posts: 863
Joined: 11/28/2006
Status: offline

WITP was micromanagement as well, I dont see how AE is expotentially different? THAT is after all the real appeal of the game, there are a number of abstracted grand strategy games that do not delve into the details, and as you know...the devil is in the details. How that phrase applies to AE is you must master them to be sucessful.

I find AE to be a quantum leap over WITP. Like it or not micromanagement is part and parcel of games with this level of detail, failure to pay attention to that detail is at your own peril. WITP was no different in this respect.

I consider my investment into AE well worth the cost, and the people that made it deserve our courtesy for the effort, even if you do not feel it is worthwhile for you personally to invest in the game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

Yes, very sensible.

But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.

They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).

In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.

(in reply to dpstafford)

Post #: 11

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 8:15:19 AM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

this is only true though if they also have changed WHO in the squadron is flying. In WITP nav search 100% never really accumulated fat (good thing because otherwise it�s just too much micromanagement and this also was the reason for it). BUT if you have set your squadrons to 50% then always the same 50% of pilots were flying. So if this wasn�t changed then now you see the total fat of the squadron going down but there are still always the same pilots in the air accumulating insane fatigue...

hopefully it was changed and isn�t that way...

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Post #: 12

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 8:17:17 AM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

Yes, very sensible.

But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.

They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).

In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.

FOr a game that is unplayable, there seems to be an awful lot of people playing it.

or trying to do...

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Post #: 13

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 8:58:47 AM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

Yes, very sensible.

But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.

They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).

In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.

You are on record, and you were complaining about AE before it was released. That is also part of the record.

It is impolite to go into another s home to fart.

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Post #: 14

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 9:00:36 AM

cantona2

Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

Yes, very sensible.

But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.

They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).

In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.

I think the vast majority will disagree with this statement. AE is not WitP.

For the record, the original post was not a rant, rather a warning to fellow players.

< Message edited by cantona2 -- 8/27/2009 9:01:41 AM >

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1966 was a great year for English Football...Eric was born

(in reply to dpstafford)

Post #: 15

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 9:08:31 AM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

Yes, very sensible.

But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.

They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).

In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.

I think the vast majority will disagree with this statement. AE is not WitP.

For the record, the original post was not a rant, rather a warning to fellow players.

We know that.

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Post #: 16

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 9:11:00 AM

invernomuto

Posts: 986
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline

I love the new fatigue model and air combat in AE. IMHO the Air team guys won the difficult challenge to give us a more realistic air combat model in a game of this scope.
You have to manage your air units carefully, setting rest % or fatigue will goes up like a rocket. It's a big improvement over WITP IMHO and does not require a lot more micromanagement.

My 0.02 cents.

Bye

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Post #: 17

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 10:49:00 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

Even in stock I never left them on 100% only did that when needed.

(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)

Post #: 18

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 11:03:34 AM

tigercub

Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline

A good way to keep a eye on your pilot fatigue just go the all planes botton click then click fatigue so that the highest is up the top to the lowest on list and rest the top few that need help.
Once a turn or every second turn, saves looking around map.

But i feel not so much needed in AE

Tiger!

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Post #: 19

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 2:17:58 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

Even in WiTP, I didn't have 100% 'anything'. I always accounted for unit fatigue by ensuring that my air units had some rest periods built into their schedule. 70-80% naval search at *normal* range was my default in WiTP and it has served me well in AE too. I don't see appreciable crippling levels of fatigue in my air units as a result.

(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)

Post #: 20

RE: Fatigue - 8/27/2009 3:13:32 PM

Dili

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

If the game is only putting those same 50% pilots always in air that issue should be adressed.

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 21

RE: Fatigue - 8/28/2009 3:06:35 AM

stuman

Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

Yes, very sensible.

But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.

They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).

In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.

Try RISK. You may like it. Not much managing to do there.

PS: I will even give you a hint. Try starting in Australia. South America can also work.

< Message edited by stuman -- 8/28/2009 3:09:14 AM >

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Post #: 22

RE: Fatigue - 8/28/2009 4:00:29 AM

EwingNJ

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.

IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.

From my observations to date everyone flys. Some more than others but not the WITP problem of 50% of the pilots having 100% of the flying hours.

this is only true though if they also have changed WHO in the squadron is flying. In WITP nav search 100% never really accumulated fat (good thing because otherwise it�s just too much micromanagement and this also was the reason for it). BUT if you have set your squadrons to 50% then always the same 50% of pilots were flying. So if this wasn�t changed then now you see the total fat of the squadron going down but there are still always the same pilots in the air accumulating insane fatigue...

hopefully it was changed and isn�t that way...

(in reply to castor troy)

Post #: 23

RE: Fatigue - 8/28/2009 4:03:07 AM

Laxplayer

Posts: 204
Joined: 8/30/2006
From: San Diego
Status: offline

I seem to get pretty high fatigue (20+), especially with my CV fighter pilots, and I only have them at 50% CAP. Anything more and it starts hitting ridiculous fatigue (40+). I've learned to put them at about 30% if I know I'm transitting safe waters and know where the opponent CVs are.

(in reply to cantona2)

Post #: 24