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Computer Manager/GM - 8/26/2009 1:08:20 AM

GoldenGreek

Posts: 19
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

Just a thought, but is there any way to make the computer manager & GM separate, like a player.

You can hire, fire these managers or GMs who make decisions based on their ratings. This would alter how games are played, who each team needs to draft, and what they focus on, etc. It also may cause them to trade too often or not enough, etc. You could assign managers for the major league team as well as minor league teams. Their ratings could help or hurt a player's development through the minors and into the majors.

They also age and increase or decrease their abilities like players do, as well as have cards, like players and can be inducted in the hall of fame. Managers/GMs could have team win-loss records and championships.

Some thoughts on ratings:

Manager Ratings
Teaching (how each player development is improved or decreased based on the manager they have).
Knowledge (how well they use tendencies like pinch running, stealing bases, etc.
Zen Factor (think of Phil Jackson, how do you get people with different temperments to work together on a team).

GM Ratings
Trade Value (whether they trade value for value or just make bad, short-term trades)
Drafting Focus (what they want to focus on - pitching, defense, offense)

Just some thoughts.

Much like I would like to be able to vote on Hall of Fame membership, not have to computer control this. I don't like their selections and think sometimes that a guy with 1,822 hits may not be deserving of enshrinement.

Post #: 1

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 8/26/2009 4:18:59 AM

Old Dog

Posts: 35
Joined: 6/6/2007
Status: offline

What a neat idea on Managers and General Managers!

Who said to beware of Greeks bearing gifts ?
Oh, phooey...I should know that, we had to translate the Aenead in high school.

Relative to the Hall of Fame enshrinement, I had seen an article some years ago on the various stats 'unofficially' required to make it to Cooperstown. I seem to recall that the article was related to SABRE-metrics...could be wrong though.
I don't have an association with sufficient history for Cooperstown to be an issue. Have you looked at Crash Davis's stuff on HOF type stats ?

Keep up the good work.

_____________________________

Old Dog

(in reply to GoldenGreek)

Post #: 2

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 8/26/2009 12:21:49 PM

puresimmer

Posts: 2299
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoldenGreek

Just a thought, but is there any way to make the computer manager & GM separate, like a player.

You can hire, fire these managers or GMs who make decisions based on their ratings. This would alter how games are played, who each team needs to draft, and what they focus on, etc. It also may cause them to trade too often or not enough, etc. You could assign managers for the major league team as well as minor league teams. Their ratings could help or hurt a player's development through the minors and into the majors.

They also age and increase or decrease their abilities like players do, as well as have cards, like players and can be inducted in the hall of fame. Managers/GMs could have team win-loss records and championships.

Some thoughts on ratings:

Manager Ratings
Teaching (how each player development is improved or decreased based on the manager they have).
Knowledge (how well they use tendencies like pinch running, stealing bases, etc.
Zen Factor (think of Phil Jackson, how do you get people with different temperments to work together on a team).

GM Ratings
Trade Value (whether they trade value for value or just make bad, short-term trades)
Drafting Focus (what they want to focus on - pitching, defense, offense)

Just some thoughts.

Much like I would like to be able to vote on Hall of Fame membership, not have to computer control this. I don't like their selections and think sometimes that a guy with 1,822 hits may not be deserving of enshrinement.

PureSim actually had this feature for managers in it's first few incarnations but I removed it because after a while it felt tedious and less "pure" but I would consider doing some variant of it if there was enough interest.

_____________________________

Developer, PureSim Baseball

(in reply to GoldenGreek)

Post #: 3

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 8/26/2009 2:05:47 PM

Wrathchild

Posts: 817
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: Reading, PA
Status: offline

I am one that would enjoy the concept of manager knowledge and personalities, just to add some more variation to the opposing teams, as well as my own team if I decide to not play out each game. I'd like an option, even, where the GM handles all the day to day business transactions (trades, draft, etc.) and I get to manage the team games.

_____________________________

J.G. Wrathchild, Manager, St. Louis Cardinals (1900-1906), Brooklyn Superbas (1907, 1908)

(in reply to puresimmer)

Post #: 4

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 8/26/2009 3:31:42 PM

GoldenGreek

Posts: 19
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

I was thinking that a computer GM could have a set system or philosophy, thus hiring managers and draft into that philosophy (speed, defense, hitting).

(in reply to Wrathchild)

Post #: 5

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 8/26/2009 10:21:11 PM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

Yes, I've long believed that we should have a user-editable database of historical managers and "generic" managers.

(in reply to GoldenGreek)

Post #: 6

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 8/27/2009 4:49:59 PM

SirWolf1960

Posts: 124
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline

I miss the manager feature. I would love to see something similar come back.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 7

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 8/28/2009 2:40:18 AM

dneely

Posts: 227
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline

I really like the idea of historic managers and I suppose the generic type as well. Neat idea!

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DNeely

PureSim Vet

(in reply to SirWolf1960)

Post #: 8

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 8/28/2009 4:32:08 AM

DonBraswell

Posts: 384
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: Millbrook, Alabama
Status: offline

I'm for bring back hiring Managers again.

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Don Braswell

PureSim Old Timer

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Post #: 9

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 8/29/2009 8:06:39 PM

leegra

Posts: 44
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline

YOU'RE GOOD, BUT CAN YOU OUTSMART THE MLBs BEST-EVER SKIPPERS? I'm real glad to see others support the idea of including historic manager profiles in PS. I've been urging this addition for quite awhile (PS supporters rated it 8th in the Facebook PS Poll). I think it would be really cool (and challenging) to take on the likes of such managerial legends as John McGraw, Connie Mack, and other significant past skippers; as well as more recent leaders like Earl Weaver and Billy Martin (for contrast!), etc. And, the more categories they could be rated in, the more realistic... I also support many of the suggestions in this thread, such as separate ratings for GMs, where you could select one with certain tendencies and let him make all the financial (optional), trades, and other GM decisions (with you having the option of over-ruling him), while you concentrated on the day-to-day on-field operation... I hope Shaun agrees with this thread's content--that is, if these things are practical and can be reasonably carried out... lee

(in reply to DonBraswell)

Post #: 10

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 9/3/2009 3:01:13 AM

GNDN

Posts: 179
Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

Just 2 more cents: I would like to see a manager's/GM feature. Thanks!

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Nobody leaves this place without singing the blues....

(in reply to leegra)

Post #: 11

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 9/4/2009 7:26:04 AM

JT_Dutch

Posts: 1
Joined: 8/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
Yes, I've long believed that we should have a user-editable database of historical managers and "generic" managers.

... I don't know if this is a good idea. The good manager will usually adjust his tendencies to the talent of his team. Billy Martin, for example, hardly ever managed aggressively in Detroit, was moderate to passive with the Yankees, but was so aggressive in Oakland that the team made a marketing campaign of it. Sparky Anderson was known as "Captain Hook" in Cincinnati, but that all depended on the pitcher. He was a slow hook with Seaver, with Gullett, and also with Morris, Petry, and Terrell in Detroit.

I think the smart way to construct an AI manager for a specific team would be to adjust tendencies based on the aggregate rating totals for each of the attributes in the game. If a team has a high aggregate speed rating, maybe the manager could be automatically adjusted to be more aggressive on the bases and steal more. A team with a small power total could bunt a little more often, a pitching staff with a high total of stamina and stuff would cause the manager to have a slower hook, etc. Then, if he cared to do so, the player could step in and tweak some of the ratings a little, based on what he knows of the actual managers.

Just my .02.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 12

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 9/4/2009 10:38:29 PM

HotCornerDave

Posts: 106
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline

On the surface, I like the idea, but I think it would be difficult to do it right. As JT pointed out, managers have to adapt their approach to the players they have on the team. I don't think it would work to define manager ratings for things such as preference to bunt, steal, hit and run, slow hook, fast hook, etc. Same thing for the GM. I don't think a GM should prefer speed, power, pitching, defense, etc. The GM should be drafting and trading to fill positions where there are weaknesses.

For a fictional sim, maybe the way to do this would be to have a GM skill to accurately evaluate all the players in the organization and define a draft/trade requirement. Then you have a scout who's skill is to, well, scout talent. The GM then uses the scouting report to conduct the draft or make a trade. At the manager level, I think like the OP said, use more intangible skills such as player development, game knowledge, etc. And I believe all of these ratings should be hidden, or have the option to be hidden. Bill Bavasi, Billy Beane, Joe Torre, and Bruce Bochy don't come with ratings, they come with a track record.

For a real player sim, don't we already get the real GM's philosophy? If I start an association in 2006 and take over the Oakland A's, I already have a team filled with players drafted and signed by the real A's GM, Billy Beane. I think with player affinity turned on, in subsequent drafts the players will be drafted onto their original teams, right? That is assuming the human controlled team doesn't draft a player that was drafted that year by another team. If I am wrong, let me know. Then I could see a way to add real managers that fit the team at that time. But, even that could be generally defined as a team philosophy for that particular season. The only gap then is trades, and for this, I would have the same thoughts as I do for fictional sim GM's and scouts.

Anyway, this post is getting long. I could go on for days about the pros and cons of a feature like this. I just really don't want this game to turn into something like OOTP. I abandoned OOTP for the simplicity of PureSim. With PureSim, I can have a real player or fictional player association up and running in short order. I like it that way.

(in reply to JT_Dutch)

Post #: 13

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 9/8/2009 8:56:08 PM

kg_1007

Posts: 230
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline

I am all for this also, or, possibly just a few "tweaks" to the AI manager...just as an example, being able to bring in pinch hitters or pitchers based upon their R/L splits, etc, or to face a specific batter or pitcher. I realize that probably is another subject entirely, but it is one of the very very few things, I think still could use being fixed... when I carry a pitcher on staff whose specialty is coming in to face a single left hander, etc, in the mode of a Tony LaRussa type bullpen, it is a little bit annoying to run auto play and come back and see him pitching 2 innings and getting clobbered by righthanded batters lol.

This is my first post in this forum section, have had the game for nearly 1 yr, but just now am getting into it by the way...great game Shaun. Thank you.

< Message edited by kg_1007 -- 9/8/2009 9:27:34 PM >

(in reply to HotCornerDave)

Post #: 14

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 9/9/2009 10:19:42 PM

rjolley

Posts: 75
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline

I would be interested in seeing this feature make a comeback, though I agree it may be tough to get right. I've always thought sports games should have managers and GMs seperate, though. They are 2 totally different roles. Maybe even have some hidden parameters that have some GM/manager teams work well together, and some that don't.

(in reply to kg_1007)

Post #: 15

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 9/10/2009 5:37:30 AM

GoldenGreek

Posts: 19
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

Couldn't we just have the computer manager/GM as an option. So those who don't want it, don't have to have it? Like the difference between having 45 member rosters and 60 member rosters.

(in reply to GNDN)

Post #: 16

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 9/10/2009 1:56:49 PM

Orcin

Posts: 162
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline

Don't we already have a computer manager? You can assign a pretend name to the "manager tendencies" screen, and you are there.

(in reply to GoldenGreek)

Post #: 17

RE: Computer Manager/GM - 9/10/2009 8:08:02 PM

leegra

Posts: 44
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline

I agree that OPTIONAL is the proper approach here. For example, such choices as: --Use the Manager/GM feature as it currently exists --Select from a list of Historic Managers (and their tendencies); with an additional option to edit as one chooses --Select from a list of GMs and their tendencies, with an edit option, as above --Ignore this feature entirely This would seem to give all players desired flexibility...Hope Shaun makes it happen! lee

(in reply to Orcin)

Post #: 18