Newbie Question - Carrier Actions

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Newbie Question - Carrier Actions - 8/28/2009 1:28:00 AM

NavalNewZ

Posts: 118
Joined: 8/19/2009
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

Hi. Proud new owner of WitpAE here. Never owned the original Witp. Im just beginning to get into this detailed wargame, and thought I might take a short cut by consulting the knowledge base here :) I've been playing through the Coral Sea scenario while reading the manual. Playing the allies, I find it useful to simply pursue a carrier vs carrier engagement, but latter things develop into a free for all. I was curious about two things. 1) What are some of the options to pursue, and destroy enemy carriers?. 2) What are some of the options for defending ones own carriers against air raids? A further point to #2 here - In my tinkering with the coral sea scenario, I have been able to set up air engagements where I have a large superiority in numbers, yet some of the enemy aircraft creep through, and have free reign on my now exposed carriers. Is there some way to prioritise defense of ones carriers in situations like this? Thanks in advance for your replies. I'm becoming utterly absorbed in this game.

Post #: 1

RE: Newbie Question - Carrier Actions - 8/28/2009 3:10:47 AM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Welcome to the game and the forum. In a nutshell there is no perfect way or setup to fight a carrier battle. You will find a diversity of opinion here about the best way. Just keep fooling around. I like to set my CAP on about 50%-60% with the rest of the fighters flying escort. I have my divebomber set on naval attack with 20% on naval search. (Some don't do this but I think a higher detection level is better. My torpedo bombers, I set on naval attack. They are not that good but any torpedo hit is a good thing.

AE is different from WITP and you are going to get some planes leak through no matter how good the CAP. More AA is better. Upgrade your carriers as much as you can and escort them with fast BBs and CLAAs.

I never set my carriers to react as you tend to lose control of them, and I set my bombers to fly no further than my wildcat escorts can.

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(in reply to NavalNewZ)

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RE: Newbie Question - Carrier Actions - 8/28/2009 3:22:44 AM

Fallschirmjager

Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
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As the Allies I use torpedo planes as naval search planes since they are far less useful than dive bombers. They have less accuracy than dive bombers and their torpedos have a high failure chance.
American dive bombers are much more useful than the torpedo planes and you should always have 100% of them commited to the attack to maximize your chance of hits. Devastators are worthless planes and Avengers while better still have trouble hitting their targets.

Now on the Japanese side the exact opposite is true. Kates are very accurate and their torpedos hardly ever fail and do serious damage. The Val uses a bomb that while accurate does not do much damage against anything light cruiser size and up.

So in short
The Allies should use torpedo planes as search planes
The Japanese should use dive bombers as search planes

Like crsutton I use 20% as well. I just use the opposite plane.

One think WitP and AE both get wrong is that in the game any planes you put on naval search do not attack the enemy. American carrier tactics were to use one whole SBD squadron armed with 500 lb GP bombs as naval search planes. They would perform their search and once they found their targets they would radio back their findings and then attack. Their lighter bomb load increased their range and they would try and hit as many different targets as possible to slow down the enemy ships and create fires and smoke so that follow up forces could find the enemy. The other bomb squadron was a pure attack squadron carrying 1000lb GP bombs. They would pick the highest value targets and go after them.
This is why most American carriers have four squadrons. The bomber squadrons were split in two with once being scout and the other attack.

AE simulates them being split in two but does not accuratly simulate American carrier tactics in reguards to scout bombers. I wish it did.

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 3

RE: Newbie Question - Carrier Actions - 8/28/2009 4:53:41 AM

jazman

Posts: 369
Joined: 1/20/2007
From: Crush Depth
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I don't think the Japanese had scout bombers dedicated to search. They used cruiser float planes for search, reserving the Vals and Kates for attacks. A definite flaw in doctrine, which the Americans did right.

< Message edited by jazman -- 8/28/2009 4:54:52 AM >

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RE: Newbie Question - Carrier Actions - 8/28/2009 7:40:02 AM

Dobey455

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Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I don't believe the Japanese had the same attitude to Search missions as legitimate military operations.

Similarly to the way their Sub doctorine was influenced by Bushido to focus their attention on enemy combat ships, despite the fact that they must have understood the significance of attacking Allied cargo vessels. (Note the number of British CV's, BB's and DD's that are pulled out of the Pacific to protect Atlantic Convoys from German U-boats!)

In the same way Japanese commanders (and the pilots themselves) were loathe to use Combat personnel and Combat equiptment for anything that was not involved in directly engaging the enemy.

(in reply to jazman)

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RE: Newbie Question - Carrier Actions - 8/28/2009 11:02:35 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

Welcome!

Good advice from crsutton and Fallschirmjager.

I would add the following for your Coral Sea experiences:

1. You have LBA (Land Based Aircraft) on Australia and Port Moresby. Use it to your advantage. The fighter squadrons that you have could be set to LRCAP to cover your aircraft carriers or you could move them to PM to provide a decent fighter umbrella.

B-25s based at Charter Towers or Townsville will have a 'normal' range of 11 or 12. Enough to keep the IJN honest-these may help fend him off.

IRL (In real life), allied aircover in the Southwest Pacific was important for carrier commanders to keep in mind as a supplement to their defensive umbrella and for scouting purposes.

2. Look at your cruiser float planes carefully. You're fighting in restricted waters, so a plane with 4-5 range recon capability will do you good in the CS scenario. I'll set most of mine for 50-60% search, 20-30% ASW, range 4-5. Be sure to change your search arcs as you move your cruisers too.

3. Your patrol PBYs, if based at Townsville and PM should provide you an enormous intelligence advantage. I set them to 80% search, normal range, 5000ft. elevation by default. You can really narrow down their search 'beam' to focus them only on the important parts of the theater in this scenario. This will ensure additional sightings of ships because of the concentrated airsearch umbrella in this area.

4. There is a well-described problem with CAP in the Coral Sea scenario. Namely, that it doesn't work well for either side. I believe that it is a genuine bug. No matter-I don't let that affect how I set my CAP parameters for the scenario, just so's you know.

5. Watch out for the IJN submarines. They're very capable in AE. They may have elected to congregate around Townsville-Cairns, so be prepared when you're bringing stragglers or damaged ships into port here. One of your short-ranged level bombers at Townsville or Charter Towers may be turned onto exclusive ASW to help keep them at bay.

Cheers!

(in reply to Dobey455)

Post #: 6

RE: Newbie Question - Carrier Actions - 8/28/2009 11:14:30 AM

Dili

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Joined: 9/10/2004
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Japanese had specific flight size units for Naval search in some carrier operations.

(in reply to Chickenboy)

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RE: Newbie Question - Carrier Actions - 8/28/2009 11:53:16 AM

P.Hausser

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Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline

Using Scout Cruisers (CS) is a good thing I think, a highly effective way of providing search for a CV Fleet. It keeps the Strike planes doing just that, and leaves the Search to Seaplanes. On this area I think the Japanese was supirrior.

< Message edited by P.Hausser -- 8/28/2009 11:54:26 AM >

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Post #: 8