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LRCAP from Carriers? - 6/11/2002 4:26:17 AM   
Didz


Posts: 728
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: UK
Status: offline 		Can anyone confirm that Carrier fighter groups are able to provide LRCAP over nearby TF's?

I've tried it repeatedly but have yet to see it actually work although it seems to operate fine with land based fighters and fighter bombers.

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Didz
Fortis balore et armis
Post #: 1
Re: LRCAP from Carriers? - 6/11/2002 4:40:51 AM   
82nd Airborne


Posts: 2484
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Coquitlam, B.C., Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Didz
[B]Can anyone confirm that Carrier fighter groups are able to provide LRCAP over nearby TF's?

I've tried it repeatedly but have yet to see it actually work although it seems to operate fine with land based fighters and fighter bombers. [/B][/QUOTE]

Sorry, I can't answer that definately although I *think* I've seen it.

Your post brought to mind another issue with the LRCAP though. I keep having P38's pick a TF and stay with it from turn to turn. The base is PM, and their are Aircobras, Kittys, etc, and they are all set to LRCAP with the Commanders decision, yet the P38s always pick a TF, and it remains their mission at the start of the next turn(s). Why is this?

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Post #: 2
- 6/11/2002 5:01:59 AM   
iancollins

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 12/26/2001
From: Southern England
Status: offline 		You need to ask your Commander that question....... :)

But..... more seriously...... one of the interesting parts of UV is knowing when to give your Commanders decision-making ability.........

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Post #: 3
- 6/11/2002 5:56:31 AM   
Hartmann

 

Posts: 888
Joined: 11/28/2000
Status: offline 		I can at the very least confirm that it works if you designate a target yourself, but then only with respect to hexes, not TFs as such.

Sometimes, I seem to get "commander's discretion" LRCAP from landbases for moving transports, but I haven't seen it yet from CVs.

In fact, that's why I usually manually give LRCAP from CVs only to transports already ashore and unloading.

When the CVs have nothing better to do, you can also set them to follow your transports, and the normal CAP will then protect them splendidly ... just be sure to revoke that command in time, or else the CVs will end up in the enemy ports or beaches. :)

Hartmann

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Post #: 4
- 6/11/2002 6:41:09 AM   
AlvinS

 

Posts: 665
Joined: 12/2/2000
From: O'Fallon, Missouri
Status: offline 		I have designated LRCAP from Air Combat TF's to cover transport TF's while they land and it works fine. You get the report when the mission is being flown. I designated Wild Cats to fly the LRCAP mission and that is what is shown in the report.:cool:

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AlvinS

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Post #: 5
- 6/11/2002 6:47:19 AM   
Hartmann

 

Posts: 888
Joined: 11/28/2000
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by AlvinS
[B]I have designated LRCAP from Air Combat TF's to cover transport TF's while they land and it works fine. You get the report when the mission is being flown. I designated Wild Cats to fly the LRCAP mission and that is what is shown in the report.:cool: [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant, too. :)

Hmm, I'm really interested now whether anyone had computer controlled LRCAP from CVs covering still moving transports in another than the CV's hex? Is this at all possible in the game?

Hartmann

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Post #: 6
- 6/11/2002 7:17:28 AM   
Avenger


Posts: 140
Joined: 6/8/2002
Status: offline 		Along about August, the Japanese computer AI stopped being reckless in my game. With 99 aircraft shot down, it started being really, really careful in choosing targets. This needs to be understood in order to understand the following statement.

As my transpport craft were approaching my bases, the base north of Lea (Frenschurt?) and the base at Buna, they were nailed hard by the Japanese aircraft based out of Lea. This was very annoying, so I reloaded the day, with all of my orders complete, and made two changes. I ordered LRCAP on both of those task forces. One was fighters out of Buna. The other was LRCAP from my CV sitting in Gili Gili. I got no messages when I repeated the turn, but the Japanese did not then attack those transports. From past experience of repeating turns, the Japanese always do the same thing. This time they did not.

--Avenger

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Post #: 7
- 6/11/2002 7:33:29 AM   
Didz


Posts: 728
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: UK
Status: offline 		So just to clarify.

What you are saying is that LRCAP works from carriers IF you designate the target manually. But not if you leave it to the commanders discretion.

If so that might explain why my CV's don't seem to provide LRCAP as I usually leave my Air Base commanders to decide which TF's to provide the cover over.

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Didz
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Post #: 8
- 6/11/2002 7:40:38 AM   
HardTimes

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Drexel Hill, PA
Status: offline 		yeah definitely works when you target the TF to CAP...just finished watching a turn and my 2 squadron LRCAP wreaked havoc on some unescorted betty's attacking my amphibious task force.

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Post #: 9
- 6/11/2002 12:06:23 PM   
dgaad

 

Posts: 864
Joined: 7/25/2001
From: Hockeytown
Status: offline 		You can have fighters fly from carriers using LRCAP and specifically target any TF. Its an excellent way to protect other fleets, and usually surprises the bejeezus out of the enemy.

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Post #: 10
- 6/11/2002 2:56:02 PM   
Hartmann

 

Posts: 888
Joined: 11/28/2000
Status: offline 		Anyone seen this at "commander´s discretion" yet? :)

Hartmann

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Post #: 11
- 6/11/2002 5:55:05 PM   
Pkunzipper


Posts: 237
Joined: 5/21/2002
Status: offline 		Yes, I ordered a Zero group on a CV to do a LRCAP at commander discretion, and they covered a Transport TF on a nearby hex(I was told about this by a message (like supply plane interception)....

Unluckly the enemy airstrike acquired as target my CV TF that left without protection....

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Post #: 12
- 6/11/2002 6:34:03 PM   
Didz


Posts: 728
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pkunzipper
[B]Yes, I ordered a Zero group on a CV to do a LRCAP at commander discretion, and they covered a Transport TF on a nearby hex(I was told about this by a message (like supply plane interception)....

Unluckly the enemy airstrike acquired as target my CV TF that left without protection.... [/B][/QUOTE]

Are! so it does work but doesn't happen very often.

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Didz
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Post #: 13
- 6/11/2002 8:21:35 PM   
thantis

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Cooksville, MD
Status: offline 		That's exactly how I lost the Hornet. I decided to try LRCAP from the Hornet to protect my amphibs at Gili Gili. Well, the commander did (and I did not have a specific target - commander's discretion), but the Japs decided that time would be perfect to launch everything they had at my task force.

Without Wildcats, I was creamed. Lost the Hornet, two CLAAs, and a couple of destroyers. Only specify LRCAP if you are south of the task force you are protecting....

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Post #: 14
LCAP in Reverse - 6/11/2002 10:34:45 PM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		I just had LCAP from Lunga cover my 3 US CV's, and just stood back to watch the fun. I figured that Lunga wasn't gonna sink from a torpedo attack, so why not?:D

It worked quite well, as I just kept chewing up attacks as they came...

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Post #: 15
LRCAP - 6/11/2002 10:43:12 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		A possibily important note is that LR-CAP from land bases is less effective at covering Air Combat TFs than vice versa. The practice of frequent maneuvers and radio silence made Air Combat TFs a bit difficult to track even for friendlies and thus you'll see a smaller percentage of assigned planes actually on CAP than you would over a land base or a Transport TF. The best CAP for carriers is always the CAP they send up themselves. :)

In an early PBEM game, I used some CAP from a carrier to cover a base while a base further back that wasn't in range of the first base used its fighters to give CAP to my carrier. When a Japanese strike came in, I found that I had a much thinner CAP than I had expected and I paid for that. :eek:

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 16
- 6/11/2002 10:43:15 PM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		Somebody else has figured it out. :D

Edit: Originally posted in regard to Adm. Dman's comment. Bah! Erik and his lightning fingers! ;) :D

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Post #: 17
- 6/12/2002 12:28:04 AM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pkunzipper
[B]Yes, I ordered a Zero group on a CV to do a LRCAP at commander discretion, and they covered a Transport TF on a nearby hex(I was told about this by a message (like supply plane interception)....

Unluckly the enemy airstrike acquired as target my CV TF that left without protection.... [/B][/QUOTE]

Guess that's why at commanders discretion they don't often send their on long range patrol. Pretty smart commanders.:)

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Post #: 18
- 6/12/2002 12:48:54 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by von Murrin
[B]Edit: Originally posted in regard to Adm. Dman's comment. Bah![/B][/QUOTE]
von:

[SIZE=3][B][U]HA![/U][/B][/SIZE] It was brought to my attention that using LCAP to bolster my CV's CAP was ahistorical. My reply was that having the IJN's CARDIVs One and Two being afloat after 4 June 42 was ahistorical too...:D

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Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

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Post #: 19
- 6/12/2002 1:11:03 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral DadMan
[B]
von:

[SIZE=3][B][U]HA![/U][/B][/SIZE] It was brought to my attention that using LCAP to bolster my CV's CAP was ahistorical. My reply was that having the IJN's CARDIVs One and Two being afloat after 4 June 42 was ahistorical too...:D [/B][/QUOTE]

The portion you replied to was written cuz the first part didn't make sense after Erik interposed his rather helpful answer as I was typing up my response. ;)

As to ahistorical tactics:

Land-based LRCAP was the first thing I tried using to defeat the IJN uber strike TF.

Yeah it's ahistorical, but so is port striking Rabaul with 150 B-17's at 1000ft, as well as using 30 IJN DD's to safely bring an invasion force to PM, as are gamey DD rushes against CV TF's, or transporting engineers and supplies to Woodlark Is. with PBY's. :p

Hmmm, methinks we share much more of the same "joy of toys" understanding than at first appeared. :D

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Post #: 20
- 6/12/2002 1:26:04 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by von Murrin
[B]Hmmm, methinks we share much more of the same "joy of toys" understanding than at first appeared. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
Indeed we must. When I do something that is "ahistorical", I ask myself,

"Am I exploiting a programming loophole?"
"Could this unit perform this function were it asked to do it at this time in history?"
"Is this a Stupid Human Trick, or will I be penalized approprately?"

Running LRCAP over my CVs suffered the appropriate penalty, and Lunga did get pasted, so it proved itself realistic.

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Didz)
Post #: 21
- 6/12/2002 1:30:05 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		Indeed.

The game is so well written that almost anything you do can have dire consequences. Usually, the more gamey the tactic, the more potentially disastrous it is. :)

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Post #: 22
- 6/12/2002 10:49:05 PM   
Didz


Posts: 728
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by von Murrin
[B]Indeed.

The game is so well written that almost anything you do can have dire consequences. Usually, the more gamey the tactic, the more potentially disastrous it is. :) [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree. As long as the programming doesn't allow a player to do something that would be physically impossible historically I don't see any problem with player trying out idea's that were not tried by the real commanders. To me thats what wargaming is all about and thats what a good wargame programme should allow.

So why not use LBA's to fly CAP over your CV's allowing of course for the problems that would arise in trying to do so in real life.

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Didz
Fortis balore et armis

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Post #: 23
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