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First Impression - 9/4/2009 6:44:36 AM

Derouin

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline

I downloaded TLD and fired it up. Also ordered the physical copy for the inevitable new computer in the future.

At first, I hated the 'night' time lighting in the first map (playing as Germans on grand campaign).

THEN the flare option comes up. WOW. This feature really adds significantly to the experience. Nice touch!

I think that the infantry survivability has been increased a bit from earlier CCs. Maybe.

I enjoy the fact that the enemy is not easily visible.

German MG's are lions of the battle field. Lion the big cat, not like the Detroit Lions (go Stafford!)

I can't stand the "Can't See" problem with MGs in any type of building. Man. I know that this was not such a problem in previous CCs.

GREAT NEW MAPS. WOW. Great work, map people! Amazing actually.

Enemy seems to push forward significantly. Nice!

Now, I understand that many outsiders consider war gamers to be far too picky and obsessive about 'minor' details. I'll tell you that so far I really appreciate all of the changes (Maps, strategic map changes, old-school wargamer unit icons etc).

BUT, for my own obsessiveness, there is a serious problem with the "CANames" file in the Data/Base file folder. I assume that the CANames file is the Canadian names?

The problem is (if they are indeed Canadian names) that there are NO FRENCH CANADIAN NAMES in the database! Come on! We make up 31.1% of the ethnic population of Canada!
French Canadian Stats

NO French names in the Canadian name data????????????

Here's one for the patch:

Derouin

Post #: 1

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 3:32:17 PM

Senior Drill

Posts: 199
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Quantico
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Derouin

..........The problem is (if they are indeed Canadian names) that there are NO FRENCH CANADIAN NAMES in the database! Come on! We make up 31.1% of the ethnic population of Canada!
French Canadian Stats

NO French names in the Canadian name data???????????? .........

Who better than you, then, to make a revised CANNames.txt? The number at the top is the total line count and the names do not have to be in alphabetical order. 31.1% is from the 1991 census. You should use the figure from the 1941 or 1931 census. And don't forget to use at least 3% North American Indian names!

_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.

(in reply to Derouin)

Post #: 2

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 6:18:01 PM

Derouin

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline

Ok, so based on 429 Canadian names, and assuming 3% Native and approximately 1/3 French Canadian names, that would mean for the txt, there should be:

12 Native Last names
139 (or so) French Canadian Last names

BTW, 1941 Census of Canada is here: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/datalib/cc41/census41.htm#nation

So, Here are my 12 Native names:

Sehoy
Purser
Christmas
Paul
Tatro
Little
Denehie
Featherstone
Grimwood
Shania
Bearpaw
Blackwater

139 French Canadian Last Names:

Allard
Archambault
Arsenault
Aubin
Auclair
Audet
Beaudoin
Beaudouin
Beaumier
Bedard
Bedeau
Belanger
Benetau
Bensette
Bergeron
Bernier
Berube
Bissonnette
Boisselle
Bouchard
Boucher
Boudreaux
Boulanger
Bourque
Breton
Brunet
Cadieux
Caron
Champagne
Charbonneau
Chevalier
Cloutier
Comeau
Cote
Cyr
Demers
Derouin
Deschamps
Deschenes
Desjardins
Dionne
Doucett
Drouillard
Drouin
Dubois
Ducharme
Dufour
Dupont
Dupuis
Dupuy
Duquette
Fontaine
Fortier
Fortin
Fournier
Francoeur
Frappier
Fregeau
Gagne
Gagnon
Garceau
Gauthier
Gervais
Girard
Giroux
Godbout
Gosselin
Goupil
Grenier
Guilbault
Guimond
Hebert
Henault
Houde
Hout
Labelle
Lacoursiere
Laflamme
Lafleur
Lafond
Lafreniere
Lambert
Lamothe
Lamoureux
Langlois
Larochelle
Larocque
Lauzon
Lavigne
Laviolette
Lavoie
Leblanc
Leclaire
Leclerc
Ledoux
Leduc
Lefebre
Lefebvre
Lepine
Lesperance
Levesque
Marcotte
Marcoux
Martel
Martin
Meloche
Menard
Mercier
Michaud
Morin
Morneau
Ouellete
Papineau
Paquet
Parent
Pariseau
Pelletier
Pepin
Perrault
Petit
Phaneuf
Poirier
Potvin
Proulx
Quenneville
Renaud
Richard
Rivest
Roberge
Robert
Roy
Simon
Tessier
Theriault
Thibault
Tremblay
Trepanier
Vallee
Viau

Now, does that mean 139 of the other names need to be deleted, or should there just be 139 added to the 429????

Anyway, this would be AWESOME to see make it in the final official patch!!!!!!!!!!!!

In all seriousness, it is beyond bizarre that there are ZERO french canadian last names in the list.

So whoever here does the patch work, I did all of the leg work! Here are 139 French Canadian last names for you to add to the official patch. PLEASE.

(in reply to Senior Drill)

Post #: 3

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 7:16:37 PM

Senior Drill

Posts: 199
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Quantico
Status: offline

The names files can be of any length. The number at the top identifies to the game how many choices it has. So if you add all the new names, it should read as 580. They could be added at the end, but for a better chance to show in a battle group, reordering the list alphabetically would improve the odds. Now, the larger the number of names, the less likely any one name will be chosen, though it would be possible, however improbable, that every soldier in a battle group could have the same name. To improve the odds of seeing French Canadian and Native names, remove 151 of the Anglo names.

_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.

(in reply to Derouin)

Post #: 4

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 7:39:16 PM

Derouin

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/24/2008
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I think those 151 Anglo names should stay. I will change my own txt file. I highly doubt they will address this in the official patch.

(in reply to Senior Drill)

Post #: 5

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 7:55:51 PM

Tejszd

Posts: 3437
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline

You might want to do some research on the subject before using to many questions marks�.

Public opinion in Quebec, where the vast majority of the French Canadians live, was anti war and did not want Canada involved in a European conflict. The majority of volunteers where not French and the draft was not used for as long as possible because of the political ramifications (it finally happened in November 1944). The government of Canada also instructed the military to try to avoid losing French Canadian troops/units by assigning them duties within Canada (this included all non combat volunteers). Here is some background; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_Crisis_of_1944

This is not a direct comment on anything you said as I can see this could get some people fired up as it has a political tone to it.... Hopefully Quebecois revisionists are not trying to change or hide facts because of what was found out later (ex. the concentration camps) now as they hope/work toward separation?

Now to be fair like all groups there were people on both sides. Most definitely there were some French Canadians who supported Canada being in WW2, some who volunteered and some who lost their lives. Thus there should be some French Canadian names (and the native though they prefer first nations now as it suggests they where here first and should have the same control/power as a nation within our Canadian confederation). Thanks for the update!

(in reply to Derouin)

Post #: 6

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 8:04:21 PM

Derouin

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Joined: 11/24/2008
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Yes, however the important thing to keep in mind is that there is a difference between a Francophone who is ethnically French, and a Canadian with a French last name because his ancestors were French.

Meaning-- look into any phone book in Canada, and you will see tons of French last names. They are French Canadian last names, whether or not they are Francophones, and they exist in all provinces in huge numbers. So many people today are ethnically french but do not speak it, and they have french last names.

I'm just saying that our population has a huge percent of french last names, there were huge numbers of people with French last names in the Canadian army whether they came from Quebec or not, and whether they were Francophones or not.

(in reply to Tejszd)

Post #: 7

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 8:16:54 PM

Tejszd

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Good Canadian reply Derouin!

True the last name is not necessarily an indicator of language or political bias....

We should also agree to avoid discussing/posting anything on the 2 official languages (though one is illegal to display in a province) as most wouldn't know what the heck us Canadians are going on about regardless of which side of the of the discussion we are on....

< Message edited by Tejszd -- 9/4/2009 8:20:25 PM >

(in reply to Derouin)

Post #: 8

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 8:23:21 PM

Derouin

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline

This is true!

For our American friends-- think of it in this analogy: African Americans are ethnically African, but clearly do not speak the African language of their ancestors.

This is similar with French Canadians-- ethnically they are French and have the French last names, but they may or may not speak French.

That's all.

(Shoot-- I forgot to add St. Pierre to the list!!!!! GO GSP!!!!!)

< Message edited by Derouin -- 9/4/2009 8:24:53 PM >

(in reply to Tejszd)

Post #: 9

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 9:41:48 PM

Andrew Williams

Posts: 6116
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From: Australia
Status: offline

you said Gagnon

(in reply to Derouin)

Post #: 10

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 9:42:47 PM

Andrew Williams

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Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
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There, now you've made me say it... where's the chilli powder?

(in reply to Andrew Williams)

Post #: 11

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 10:06:40 PM

Derouin

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/24/2008
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I don't get it

(in reply to Andrew Williams)

Post #: 12

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 10:42:23 PM

Pzt_Serk

Posts: 92
Joined: 10/30/2008
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Excuse my ignorance, but why the native names? Were they drafted in the canadian army in WWII and sent in Normandy? I would not be suprised they were considered �unfit� for service back then...

< Message edited by Pzt_Serk -- 9/4/2009 10:48:00 PM >

(in reply to Derouin)

Post #: 13

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 10:52:57 PM

Derouin

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Joined: 11/24/2008
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I am not aware if our government prevented native Canadians from entering the armed forces or segregated them as a group. I assume that there were native Canucks in the army back then. I know that the Americans segregated black people from the 'regular' army. Don't know if we did the same with natives. Never heard of it. Unfortunately, it wouldn't surprise me though.

(in reply to Pzt_Serk)

Post #: 14

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 11:38:12 PM

Senior Drill

Posts: 199
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Quantico
Status: offline

LOL! Sorry, but that was just me stirring the stuff with a stick. Derouin wants a minority representation and I threw in another Canadian minority in a perverse, nit picking jest. Derouin has a point as does Tejszd. As a Pacific Northwest American, I've been insulated and blissfully ignorant of the Francophone or Quebecois issues. And truthfully, I wish to remain so. I have way too many issues of my own and of US focus to deal with. The few BC Canadians that are ethnic French that I have met and worked with are in BC to be away from all that. In fact, I worked with more Chinese Canadians from BC than Quebecers. I bow out of the CANNames.txt mix debate and will leave it to the Canuks to work out. The agitation aside, I mearly tried to show Derouin the aspects of modding the file.

As to the subject of First Nation, North American Indians or Aboriginals (please select your prefered PC naming convention and ignore the rest, as different Canadian government websites use one of the three) participation in WWII, again I profess complete and total ignorance. And wish to remain so! Let the Canadians work out the numbers and the history. Not my province, so to speak. I'm sorry, with a chuckle, for the controversy.

Hummm. Maori names in an NZNames.txt ...........

_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.

(in reply to Pzt_Serk)

Post #: 15

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 11:48:01 PM

GoodGuy

Posts: 1506
Joined: 5/17/2006
From: Cologne, Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tejszd

You might want to do some research on the subject before using to many questions marks�.

[].......The government of Canada also instructed the military to try to avoid losing French Canadian troops/units by assigning them duties within Canada (this included all non combat volunteers). Here is some background; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_Crisis_of_1944

Hi Tejszd,

I am not sure whether the particular wikipedia article's authors got their facts straight. Let me quote the part of the article that covers the background of the "crisis".

quote:

ORIGINAL: wikipedia

"While units such as the Royal 22e R�giment, Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal, the R�giment de la Chaudi�re and the R�giment de Maisonneuve all had outstanding records during World War II, some feel that if they had been concentrated into the same brigade (as French-Canadians requested and as currently exists in the Canadian Armed Forces), it could have become a focus of pride for French-Canada, encouraging the war effort and political support in Quebec."

quote:

"These units were, however, distributed among the various English-speaking divisions of the Canadian Army overseas."

Well this happened due to the fact that certain tasks may require a certain mix of units (i.e. infantry line units, supported by MMG- or mortar units, etc.), so shuffling around units wasn't an abnormal thing, Allies and Germans did that likewise, maybe with the German Kampfgruppen being the most flexible (and often most strangely) medley array of units. The distribution happened due to requirements of the tasks, but the article makes it sound like the French Canadians had been torn apart on purpose.

The French Canadians in Northwest Europe actually served in the very same Brigade, namely the 5th Canadian Infantry Brigade.

I do own an interesting book covering (and investigating) the myth (regarding a group of the 12th SS-Division "Hitlerjugend" - which did not receive the order to retreat - defending the �cole superi�ure) that evolved around the pocket of Falaise ("The Canadians at Falaise", by Jean-Luc Leleu). The book mentions the French Canadian's share when the Canadians were ordered to clear the Falaise pocket.

There were several French Canadian units fighting in Europe. In Northwest Europe, at least 3 French Canadian Regiments,

namely

"Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal" - Montreal, Quebec,
"Le Regiment de Maisonneuve" - Montreal, Quebec,
"Le Regiment de la Chaudi�re" (MMG unit)- Levis, Quebec,

had been assigned to the 5th Canadian Infantry Brigade, along with the only English Canadian unit, "The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada", as part of the 2nd Canadian Infantry Division.

It seems that most (if not all) of these French Canadian units were shipped to Normandy in early July (in time to join the British 2nd Army for the remaining tasks within Operation Overlord), participating in operations around Caen, and south of Caen in operation "Totalize" (8th - 13th of August) and "Tractable" (to take Falaise, 14th - 21st of August). In November "Le Regiment de Maisonneuve" suffered heavy casualties in the Netherlands, and was considered to be depleted, while the other Regiments had few casualties during the Normandy Campaign, it seems. All 3 Regiments were ordered to R+R and they rejoined operations around February.

Funny anecdote from wikipedia:

quote:

"Citizens in Normandy were surprised to find that soldiers of the Chaudi�re spoke a dialect of French very close to that spoken in Normandy, but were puzzled by the regiment's name. In French, "chaudi�re" is the word for a hot water heater. In Quebec, Chaudi�re is a common place name from which the name of the regiment was drawn."

My 2 cents.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 9/5/2009 12:18:48 AM >

_____________________________

"Aw Nuts"
General Anthony McAuliffe
December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne
---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
8th of August, 2006

(in reply to Tejszd)

Post #: 16

RE: First Impression - 9/4/2009 11:54:50 PM

Derouin

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline

I get you Senior Drill. I knew you were being a bit tongue in cheek. BUT the thing to remember is that French Canadians are not a small minority relegated to the province of Quebec. Last time I knew the number, America was comprised of approximately 11-13% african americans. Coincedentaly, that is around the same percentage of people in the world who are left handed!

Canada has 31.1% of people of French descent. Huge difference in the percentage. This is comprised of people who are ethnically french and speak french, and those that are ethnically french and yet couldn't speak french to save their lives.

Kinda like all the people with German last names in the States.

(in reply to Senior Drill)

Post #: 17

RE: First Impression - 9/5/2009 12:00:52 AM

Senior Drill

Posts: 199
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Quantico
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Derouin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

you said Gagnon

I don't get it

Gagnon is the real last name of a CC modder and map maker that has had past or on going feuds with a few others that post here and on other CC websites. Pay no attention to Andrews post. Or any other Andrew, for that matter. ;)

_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.

(in reply to Derouin)

Post #: 18

RE: First Impression - 9/5/2009 12:01:00 AM

Derouin

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Joined: 11/24/2008
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Funny anecdote from wikipedia:

quote:

"Citizens in Normandy were surprised to find that soldiers of the Chaudi�re spoke a dialect of French very close to that spoken in Normandy, but were puzzled by the regiment's name. In French, "chaudi�re" is the word for a hot water heater. In Quebec, Chaudi�re is a common place name from which the name of the regiment was drawn."

My 2 cents.

That's really funny!

Just so people in the States understand-- French Canadians are TOTALLY integrated into society! hehehe. We are not some bizarre sort of group that the government handles delicately. Hmmm, wait a minute...

But anyway, go to any Canadian war memorial site, look at the names on the plaques-- TONS of French names on all the plaques in every province. Of course, Quebec will have a higher percentage of french names on their plaques!

(in reply to GoodGuy)

Post #: 19

RE: First Impression - 9/5/2009 12:05:53 AM

GoodGuy

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From: Cologne, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Derouin

Kinda like all the people with German last names in the States

I've read that the German community in the States was so strong (regarding influence and numbers of citizens) at one point, that they tried to make German an (additional) official language. Well, the petition didn't get through.

_____________________________

"Aw Nuts"
General Anthony McAuliffe
December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne
---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
8th of August, 2006

(in reply to Derouin)

Post #: 20

RE: First Impression - 9/5/2009 12:08:48 AM

Senior Drill

Posts: 199
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Quantico
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Derouin

I get you Senior Drill. I knew you were being a bit tongue in cheek. BUT the thing to remember is that French Canadians are not a small minority relegated to the province of Quebec. Last time I knew the number, America was comprised of approximately 11-13% african americans. Coincedentaly, that is around the same percentage of people in the world who are left handed!

Canada has 31.1% of people of French descent. Huge difference in the percentage. This is comprised of people who are ethnically french and speak french, and those that are ethnically french and yet couldn't speak french to save their lives.

Kinda like all the people with German last names in the States.

I understand Derouin. Albet caring is another matter... Make the file. Post it as a Real CANNames.txt file as an alternative. It can and probably will be hosted on the Matrix TLD mod site for others to download and install to their games. You will have made your first CC mod.

Just do it. :)

_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.

(in reply to Derouin)

Post #: 21

RE: First Impression - 9/5/2009 12:12:21 AM

Derouin

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Joined: 11/24/2008
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Stupid question-- how do I attach a txt file to this message board?

(in reply to Senior Drill)

Post #: 22

RE: First Impression - 9/5/2009 10:30:03 AM

CSO_Talorgan

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1. No wish to become involved in Canada's internal politics but there is at least one Canadian aboriginal person (apologies if that is not the politically correct term) buried in the military cemetary at Nijmegen.

2.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Senior Drill

They could be added at the end, but for a better chance to show in a battle group, reordering the list alphabetically would improve the odds

How would an alphabetical reorder improve the odds of the game selecting a given name?

Does the game select names preferentially from the top of the list?

(in reply to Senior Drill)

Post #: 23

RE: First Impression - 9/5/2009 11:29:48 AM

DasHoff

Posts: 109
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do a lot of ppl still speak french in canada? having 2 learn a 2nd language would suck

this coming from an ignorant australian. haha

(in reply to CSO_Talorgan)

Post #: 24

RE: First Impression - 9/5/2009 1:45:10 PM

Senior Drill

Posts: 199
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Quantico
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CSO_Talorgan

...... How would an alphabetical reorder improve the odds of the game selecting a given name?

Does the game select names preferentially from the top of the list?

No, it is entirely random. I could be wrong about the re-oordering, not being any sort of statistician. Perhaps it makes no difference where a particular name is in the list, it still has the same chance to be used as any other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Derouin

Stupid question-- how do I attach a txt file to this message board?

In the Reply to Message window you'll see "File" under the smileys. Next to "File" is a hyperlink titled "Click her to upload!" Clicking the link will open a file upload window.

_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.

(in reply to CSO_Talorgan)

Post #: 25

RE: First Impression - 9/5/2009 3:21:53 PM

Pzt_Serk

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Joined: 10/30/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DasHoff

do a lot of ppl still speak french in canada? having 2 learn a 2nd language would suck

this coming from an ignorant australian. haha

Of course... more than 80% of people in Quebec speak French, and 50% of us are billingual.

Also, English speaking canadian are now learning French so they can have something to prove they are not lost americans

Learning more than one language is very important in today's world and I suggest that you, as an australian, start learning some asian language asap

< Message edited by Pzt_Serk -- 9/5/2009 3:23:22 PM >

(in reply to DasHoff)

Post #: 26

RE: First Impression - 9/5/2009 4:11:20 PM

GoodGuy

Posts: 1506
Joined: 5/17/2006
From: Cologne, Germany
Status: offline

Learn German, it may be useful after our next attempt to steamroll other nations.... we may make it to Australia, next time.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 9/5/2009 4:13:57 PM >

_____________________________

"Aw Nuts"
General Anthony McAuliffe
December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne
---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
8th of August, 2006

(in reply to Pzt_Serk)

Post #: 27

RE: First Impression - 9/5/2009 10:52:51 PM

Derouin

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DasHoff

do a lot of ppl still speak french in canada? having 2 learn a 2nd language would suck

this coming from an ignorant australian. haha

Ha. French is the co-official language of the country! Learning french for anglophones depends on the context etc. But yeah, french is everywhere in many places, and in others it is slightly hidden, but still there.

_____________________________

"Can't See"
"Can't See"
"Can't See"
"Can't See"

(in reply to DasHoff)

Post #: 28

RE: First Impression - 9/5/2009 11:05:25 PM

Tejszd

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I thought we would avoid the language subject people??? Ya French is everywhere but don't post an English only sign or the police will be coming for you....

Actually French is not everywhere, most products have French, but in most provinces it is not mandatory to use French except for the governments which must be able to provide services in both official languages....

(in reply to Derouin)

Post #: 29

RE: First Impression - 9/6/2009 4:32:10 AM

DasHoff

Posts: 109
Joined: 8/11/2009
Status: offline

they tend to push japanese a bit in australian schools, its prolly the major 2nd language ppl learn. tho language in school is very basic stuff, and you forget everything as soon as you leave. i can count to 10 in japanese and thats it. chinese would probably be more beneficial

i dont really think theres any need tho. we have an ignorant attitude like the english and usa: u speak english or gtfo

(in reply to Tejszd)

Post #: 30