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dumb question - 11/2/2000 10:55:00 PM

Nikademus

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Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
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maybe its the pain medicine but can someone kindly explain to this addled general how to conduct a continuous 'creeping barage' using those wonderful artillery we all know and love?

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- 11/2/2000 11:32:00 PM

Dave_R

Posts: 84
Joined: 9/22/2000
From: England
Status: offline

The easiest, and only way that I know of to set up a rolling artillery barrage is after the initial strike is over keep using the ajust button in the artil plotting screen. Just remember to redesignate the artillery to their original target hex, then use the ajust button to change it by two hex's,that way even non spotter units can keep the srike going and move it in the same turn with out much of a fire delay. A spotter will be able to move the target point further in the same time Again remember the delay times. 0 to 0.4 will bring the strike in at the end of your current turn 0.5 to 0.9 will bring it in at the end of your opponants/computers turn and 1 and above will bring it in on the next turn or the turn following if the integer is 2 and so on You can do a lot with artillery, you just need to keep an eye on the fire delay number I must say though, under SPW@W I do find that rolling artillery barrrages can't realy be kept going for more then two, three turns before it starts scattering. Artillery tends to suffer worse then ever before for being out of contact, also if the strike is well wide of it's target hex, it's next target hex is ajusted away from the hex that you might of designated so I end up having to use most of my ajustment moves keeping the strike tight.

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- 11/3/2000 3:58:00 AM

Tankhead

Posts: 1352
Joined: 6/21/2000
From: Yukon Territory Canada
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Nikademus: maybe its the pain medicine but can someone kindly explain to this addled general how to conduct a continuous 'creeping barage' using those wonderful artillery we all know and love?

Hi Nikademus! There is no dumd questions, just dumd answers. Tankhead ------------------ Rick Cloutier [email]rcclout@telusplanet.net[/email] Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources http://tankhead.home.icq.com

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Tankhead

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Post #: 3

- 11/3/2000 5:54:00 AM

Mr.Ed

Posts: 11
Joined: 11/1/2000
From: Chicago, Illinois, United States of America
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I was wondering the same thing but I've learned to deal without it. Wasn't it more of a WWI tactic anyways?

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- 11/3/2000 6:27:00 AM

Bonzo

Posts: 676
Joined: 9/3/2000
From: Peace River, AB, Canada
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While the rolling barrage was developed during WW1, it still has a place where similar conditions prevail, assaults & defences. you can roll it away from you & follow along in its wake during an assault. In a defence, you can spot the enemy & roll it towards you, keeping it on the eneny's lead elements. was infanrty suppresses from artilleryeasier than armour, this can strip the infantry protectors from the armour, leaving it open to close assault from your infantry/AT units. If you have a lot of arty for your assault, you might try a mixed barrage, with some moving towards the enemy, with your troops tight up, while some starts out behind the presumed line of main resistance and walks backwards towards your troops. the forward marching barrage will suppress MG nests & expose minefields while the backwards marching barrage suppresses overwatch units. the barrages, ideally meet at the main line of resistance just before your troops arrive, then, together is concentrated on any points of resistance on the main line. In real life, a backwards marching barrage was very demoralizing due to the perception that it was their own arty firing 'short'. Bonzo ------------------ Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator 28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters http://dreadnaught.home.icq.com [email]nwbattalion@icqmail.com[/email]

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Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Webmaster 28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters Main http://www.nwbattalion.com E-mail

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- 11/3/2000 8:24:00 AM

Wild Bill

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Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
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Dave_R's answer was quite good and about as close to simulating this effect as any I know. Click on your observer, then the artillery plot button at the beginning or ending of a turn and keep shifting your fire. As he said, it works for two or three turns very well. I just used it while testing "Watchword Freedom" and was very pleased with its effects. And Tankhead is right. We don't consider any question here as dumb. You are too hard on yourself my brother!

...Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
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- 11/3/2000 8:25:00 AM

Wild Bill

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On this them, unless things are desperate, I never plot artillery (except on board) closer than 8 hexes from my closest units to the front line. Otherwise, I may be cursing "friendly fire," which AIN'T so friendly

WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 7

- 11/3/2000 1:50:00 PM

AmmoSgt

Posts: 1002
Joined: 10/21/2000
From: Redstone Arsenal Al
Status: offline

those cute little US 75mm pack How's with spotters are a 0.1 time delay and sort out the inf from the armor just peachy keen get a dozen and a secion of ammo trucks set them up way at the back of the board and make em'all duck ....keep yer spotters forward and quiet and keep the 75's at least 4 hexes from friendlies hey look at allthe smoke they got I Luv this game

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"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which

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- 11/3/2000 2:26:00 PM

Fredde

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From: Goteborg, Sweden
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A little advice.. keep "two lines" of artillery. First the heavy artillery, which moves away backwards from the enemy line before your infantry gets close (else their bigger spread will hit your infantry as well) and just before the turn when your infantry close attacks strike them with mortar fire. This supresses the enemy first line, and also keeps their second line from supporting the first lines defence (the heavier artillery keeps raining down on them while you attack the first line).

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"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. M�kel� about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.

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Post #: 9

- 11/3/2000 4:32:00 PM

ncpanther

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Joined: 5/22/2000
From: NC
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he he he Hey Bill , Ain't no such thing as "Friendly Fire"!! espically if its rainin from the sky!! ------------------ NC Airborne Sappers Lead the way!! SAPPERS ATTACK!!!!

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NC Airborne Sappers Lead the way!! SAPPERS ATTACK!!!!

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Post #: 10

- 11/3/2000 6:46:00 PM

Kluckenbill

Posts: 278
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Lancaster, PA, USA
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The whole issue of artillery spotting and control has been discussed quite a bit on this message board. I think that most countries have way too much control over their artillery, especially the Soviets and Japanese, who had rather rudimentary fire adjustment capabilities in real life. The rules are probably reasonably accurate for the USA, who had the most sophisticated system by far. I would like to see the ability to actually program a creeping barrage before the start of the battle. That would be a much more realistic portrayal of how the Russians actually used artillery. Start by programming about 8 turns of fire (blind) and then adjust only with FO's. I guess if this were done you'd have to adjust the costs of artillery units accordingly (up for the nations with more flexible fire control rules.) ------------------ Target, Cease Fire !

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Target, Cease Fire !

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- 11/3/2000 7:29:00 PM

mogami

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Also do not assign every btry every turn so that you always have some available. I mean if you have (my normal allotment is 4 btry 105 and 1btry 150 per inf company) each turn I assign a 105 btry and use the 150 for special targets) this way every turn after turn 3 I have rounds impacting on enemy and a btry standing by for counter btry fire. 8 hexes? WB I keep the arty right with my infantry sometimes it hits my people but since I advance in several lines the next line just keeps going I find enemy MG's and formed infantry cause more damage then a few short rounds besides I always have plenty of infantry till Tankhead unleashes his Landmatteress on me. ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction! [This message has been edited by Mogami (edited November 03, 2000).]

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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- 11/3/2000 8:32:00 PM

Tankhead

Posts: 1352
Joined: 6/21/2000
From: Yukon Territory Canada
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quote:

Originally posted by Mogami: Also do not assign every btry every turn so that you always have some available. I mean if you have (my normal allotment is 4 btry 105 and 1btry 150 per inf company) each turn I assign a 105 btry and use the 150 for special targets) this way every turn after turn 3 I have rounds impacting on enemy and a btry standing by for counter btry fire. 8 hexes? WB I keep the arty right with my infantry sometimes it hits my people but since I advance in several lines the next line just keeps going I find enemy MG's and formed infantry cause more damage then a few short rounds besides I always have plenty of infantry till Tankhead unleashes his Landmatteress on me.

Hi Mogami!

I like to make sure the enemy tired soldiers have a nice warm place to lay down and rest. It's the least I can do for the poor saps.

Tankhead ------------------ Rick Cloutier [email]rcclout@telusplanet.net[/email] Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources http://tankhead.home.icq.com

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Tankhead

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Post #: 13

- 11/3/2000 9:41:00 PM

Warrior

Posts: 1808
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Dave_R: The easiest, and only way that I know of to set up a rolling artillery barrage is after the initial strike is over keep using the ajust button in the artil plotting screen. Just remember to redesignate the artillery to their original target hex, then use the ajust button to change it by two hex's,that way even non spotter units can keep the srike going and move it in the same turn with out much of a fire delay. A spotter will be able to move the target point further in the same time Again remember the delay times. 0 to 0.4 will bring the strike in at the end of your current turn 0.5 to 0.9 will bring it in at the end of your opponants/computers turn and 1 and above will bring it in on the next turn or the turn following if the integer is 2 and so on You can do a lot with artillery, you just need to keep an eye on the fire delay number I must say though, under SPW@W I do find that rolling artillery barrrages can't realy be kept going for more then two, three turns before it starts scattering. Artillery tends to suffer worse then ever before for being out of contact, also if the strike is well wide of it's target hex, it's next target hex is ajusted away from the hex that you might of designated so I end up having to use most of my ajustment moves keeping the strike tight.

Thanks a lot, Dave! I wondered what those numbers meant. You've helped me be much more effective with my artillery.

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Retreat is NOT an option.

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Post #: 14

- 11/4/2000 12:31:00 AM

Nikademus

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Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
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quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: [And Tankhead is right. We don't consider any question here as dumb. You are too hard on yourself my brother! ...Wild Bill [/B]

i have to be....otherwise the next AFV of mein that runs over one of your blasted minefields will give me a coronary!!!!!

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Post #: 15

- 11/4/2000 1:52:00 AM

Dave_R

Posts: 84
Joined: 9/22/2000
From: England
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quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: On this them, unless things are desperate, I never plot artillery (except on board) closer than 8 hexes from my closest units to the front line. Otherwise, I may be cursing "friendly fire," which AIN'T so friendly WB

lol! Just had an object lesson on this point Bill! Doing the first battle in a long campaign. US army doing a beach landing in North Africa, lots of 16 and 14 inch guns, to simulate a couple of battleships in support. Great until the poor bloody Jarheads hit the beach and had to stay put to clear a path for the following armour. So pinned on the beach and big, 'friendly' firing close in, I ended up taking as many casualties from friendly fire then from the french! You need to remember that a big shell can cause infantry casualties from as far as three hex away! So the golden rule. If you want a tight artillery barrage have a good mix of gun tubes. Big stuff for distant targets, smaller stuff for close in work!

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Post #: 16

- 11/4/2000 7:28:00 AM

rexmonday

Posts: 119
Joined: 7/4/2000
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Not to forget that you can also use the heavy artillery to scoop out holes which help to protect your troops (engineers with demolition packs/HE can also do this). This is one of the benefits of a creeping barrage - it automatically digs foxholes for the approaching infantry.

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Post #: 17