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First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 3:02:31 PM

Adam Parker

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From: Melbourne Australia
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A reasonable purchase price makes buying a game an easy choice. What a reasonable price offers, is the ability to mitigate risk. At $35 USD, buying Operation Barbarossa is fairly much a risk free adventure and that's a good thing.

Because wow, sometimes first impressions are very easy to write.

An Ogre?

Having downloaded the game seemlessly as usual with Matrix, the first oddity we receive after being told to install Direct X 9c, is a screen that pops up with the inviting title "Ogre". What is Ogre you ask? I haven't the faintest shmeck but it wants us to choose a "rendering system" and with pot luck, it happened to offer a suggestion that with me, it liked.

By 2009, haven't these things been hidden under the hood?

Scenarios and Campaigns

So I figured the best way to see this game straight up was to choose a scenario and see how intuitive it all was to play.

A grand total of 9 scenarios were on offer. One started in 1941 and my guess is, all are linear. I selected it anyway.

The good I'm happy to report, is that these scenarios, in the spirit of ye olde Panzer General offer levels of victory based on hex occupation within a turn number. In other words capture the needed towns by turn 7 for example and you score a "Brilliant Victory". You get the gist.

Lights, Camera, Render!

In the biggest anticlimax of PC wargaming in 2009 I almost cried. It seems this big ogre is fantastically necessary to render the game's units in the most pixelated 3d I've ever seen. I just couldn't make some of these units out. I'm running a high end nVidia card with 768mb of video ram.

And the way the units move, they glide, misses so much atmosphere that owners of the Panzer General franchise have been used to.

Oh moving units and fighting is easy for those used to the PG interface. Left click move. See odds. Left click fight.

But with no map zoom out (there is wheel mouse tilt aka slight zoom out) and such bad unit art, this game will be a chore to play. Yes, fire up Kharkov 43 for example, and the map opens with not a unit in sight! Scroll, scroll, scroll to find them. Scrollllll. Whose are they when you see them? What are they? You can't even zoom the map out to obtain some strategic perspective.

Not even the Shogun Total War inspired victory hex flags (banners with crowns) will redeem this one without a huge facelift.

Summary

I remember buying Panzer General 1, firing it up and thinking wow. This game wants you to play, it wants you to think and feel like you're in command.

Panzer General 1 circa 1995 with 2-d, side-on graphics, is still the king of the genre. How cool was it to nurture those easy to see, easy to recognise elite units from battle to battle?

I knew the risk.

Operation Barbarossa at first sight, feels like it was made in a garage.

Happy gaming,
Adam.

EDIT:

See below for a discussion of what Ogre actually means and its implications for your system and graphics quality - Adam.

And remember:

"The Lord can give, and the Lord can take away. I might be herding sheep next year" - Elvis Presley.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Adam Parker -- 9/11/2009 3:51:10 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 3:07:54 PM

Kipper

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Thanks for the heads-up. I'll pass on this one.

PS What kind of unit strength rating does the OGRE have? Don't tell me, he's the Boss unit waiting for you if you get to Moscow? Kewl.

(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 2

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 3:16:33 PM

JudgeDredd

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From: Scotland
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Pity...although perhaps there is a reason the graphics are so pixelated...they didn't seem to be in the pictures on the product page.

I'll look out for more detailed impressions from you and others. I was about to put my hand in my pocket, but to be honest, I am a self-confessed graphics whore and only let that "slide" for wargames because of my love of strategy - but I expect a bare minimum...and if the graphics on this are pixelated, then I'm not going to play it.

Like I said, hopefully it's a setting that can be changed and you can get it looking pretty (like it seems to in the product page pics)....although the zoom (or lack of) is indeed an issue.

(in reply to Kipper)

Post #: 3

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 3:20:23 PM

junk2drive

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I play at 1024x768 16 bit and don't have the problem that you describe. Maybe another setting.

I'll bet you didn't look at the ogre options and left it at 800x640

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Post #: 4

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 3:25:35 PM

Barthheart

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Here's a screen shot with the graphics turned right up.... no pixelation here.... (Ogre is the 3D engine used to make the game.)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Barthheart -- 9/10/2009 3:32:12 PM >

_____________________________

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"

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Post #: 5

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 3:27:10 PM

Barthheart

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From: Nepean, Ontario
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Also seen here:

Minimap so you can jump to any point on the map... yellow spots are victory hexes, dark blue are enemy units, medium blue are points of interest (bridges villages, forts etc.), light blue are depolyment areas.

Air unit over enemy unit about to attack, with possible results displayed.

Blue terrain is where the air unit can move to instead of attacking... light blue is hexes that you know what's there, dark blue are FOW hexes.

< Message edited by Barthheart -- 9/10/2009 3:31:11 PM >

_____________________________

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"

(in reply to Barthheart)

Post #: 6

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 3:36:50 PM

Adam Parker

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By George Junk, how the hell are we meant to know that before firing the game up?

1600 x 1200 on a 20" plus screen does even it out a little. 1280 x 1024 doesn't do it. But you may have breathed an extra evaluation into this for me.

I checked every graphical option "in" the game and couldn't find a thing to change. Why would a game risk a first impression like this with an unintuitive external utility called Ogre?

And btw, there is a 2nd 1941 scenario there called "Vyazma". You have to look for it to find it. Zoom out would be nice.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to junk2drive)

Post #: 7

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 3:38:54 PM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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Adam,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
An Ogre?

Having downloaded the game seemlessly as usual with Matrix, the first oddity we receive after being told to install Direct X 9c, is a screen that pops up with the inviting title "Ogre". What is Ogre you ask? I haven't the faintest shmeck but it wants us to choose a "rendering system" and with pot luck, it happened to offer a suggestion that with me, it liked.

By 2009, haven't these things been hidden under the hood?

This is the graphics configuration screen, which allows you to choose things like your preferred resolution and color depth, whether to run in a window or not, and whether to use anti-aliasing, etc. There wouldn't be any point to put it "under the hood" as the player needs to choose this before the game runs. Once you set it once, you don't have to touch it again.

quote:

Lights, Camera, Render!

In the biggest anticlimax of PC wargaming in 2009 I almost cried. It seems this big ogre is fantastically necessary to render the game's units in the most pixelated 3d I've ever seen. I just couldn't make some of these units out. I'm running a high end nVidia card with 768mb of video ram.

Combined with your comments on the graphics configuration screen, I'm guessing you did not select the right resolution for your system. If you launch the game again, click on the different options and try to pick a resolution, color depth and anti-aliasing that better suits you.

The 3D graphics are crisp and clear on my system, not pixelated at all.

quote:

But with no map zoom out (there is wheel mouse tilt aka slight zoom out) and such bad unit art, this game will be a chore to play. Yes, fire up Kharkov 43 for example, and the map opens with not a unit in sight! Scroll, scroll, scroll to find them. Scrollllll. Whose are they when you see them? What are they? You can't even zoom the map out to obtain some strategic perspective.

You can zoom in and zoom out, but it is a fairly typical tilt and zoom. I'm guessing your graphical issues made this worse than it should be.

quote:

Not even the Shogun Total War inspired victory hex flags (banners with crowns) will redeem this one without a huge facelift.

Actually, they are golden laurel wreaths.

quote:

Operation Barbarossa at first sight, feels like it was made in a garage.

I hope you take a second look, these impressions do not correspond to the game I'm playing here.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 8

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 3:39:59 PM

Hanal

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As usual, I'll wait for a patch or two before taking the plunge, as that is now my normal buying practice anyway...

(in reply to Barthheart)

Post #: 9

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 3:40:50 PM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
1600 x 1200 on a 20" plus screen does even it out a little. 1280 x 1024 doesn't do it. But you may have breathed an extra evaluation into this for me.

Turn on the anti-aliasing in the configuration screen. With your video card, you can probably set it to 4 at least. Pick the highest resolution and color depth option it offers you.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 10

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 3:41:26 PM

junk2drive

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From: Arizona West Coast
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It'll grow on you I think. Give it a week.

Barthhart's shot shows arty too. Some have range of two or three hexes and will auto support.

Off to work now, have fun.

(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 11

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 3:43:16 PM

Erik Rutins

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Guys, please note that these first impressions by Adam are apparently based on him not understanding the initial graphics configuration screen that pops up when you start the game. This has to appear before the game starts as it lets you tell the engine what you want for your graphical options. Setting this to the best your system can support makes the game look very good.

Adam, I'm sorry you didn't ask some questions about this before posting those impressions, we would have been happy to help you figure out that initial screen.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 12

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 4:02:25 PM

Adam Parker

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From: Melbourne Australia
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Thanks Erik.

But you have to agree that some user friendly instructions when Ogre popped up would indeed have resulted in some different "first" impressions, don't you think?

I didn't even know you could click on the Ogre options. I did it just now on Junk's heads up by fluke.

What settings are appropriate for a person's video card btw? Where do we find them? Can the wrong settings damage a video card? Don't games optimise their settings based on a person's system for them automaticaly these days?

Oh Erik, in life first impressions count but thanks for your help.

Hard to ask a question if you don't know what to ask.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 13

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 4:19:24 PM

Barthheart

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From: Nepean, Ontario
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None of the settings will damage your card. As for the what to use, some know their cards quite well and can choose what they know to to the best settings.

The rest of us,

, need to do a little trial and error testing. If I crank everything up to the top, the game slows a bit and the cursor gets jumpy. That's my PC/card, so I turn it down so it looks good and runs smoothly.

_____________________________

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"

(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 14

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 4:32:13 PM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
But you have to agree that some user friendly instructions when Ogre popped up would indeed have resulted in some different "first" impressions, don't you think?
I didn't even know you could click on the Ogre options. I did it just now on Junk's heads up by fluke.

Honestly, it didn't come up at all during beta testing, I think everyone who saw it pop up knew that it was to configure the graphics. I have quite a few games that use a similar "pre-launch" graphics configuration pop-up, but I assume this is the first time you've seen that?

quote:

What settings are appropriate for a person's video card btw? Where do we find them? Can the wrong settings damage a video card? Don't games optimise their settings based on a person's system for them automaticaly these days?

The configuration options listed are those that your system can support. If it can't support it, it won't be listed. We would never give you an option that would damage your system. Go with the highest resolution and color depth and try Non-Maskable 2 for Anti-Aliasing and see how it goes. Play around with the options and see what works best for you.

The only games I know that figure all this out automatically and internally (rather than defaulting to minimum settings, which most do) are AAA titles with custom graphics engines that cost a heck of a lot more to develop than we can afford.

quote:

Hard to ask a question if you don't know what to ask.

Well, if you come up with something like this again that confuses you, just say that you're not sure what to do and we'll go from there.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 9/10/2009 4:34:49 PM >

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Adam Parker)

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RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 5:00:41 PM

Adam Parker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The configuration options listed are those that your system can support. If it can't support it, it won't be listed. We would never give you an option that would damage your system. Go with the highest resolution and color depth and try Non-Maskable 2 for Anti-Aliasing and see how it goes. Play around with the options and see what works best for you.

Sorry Erik, I like my games ready to play.

Btw I set the options all the way up - chose yes for everything and got a very pale screen. No, some of those options can't be good at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Well, if you come up with something like this again that confuses you, just say that you're not sure what to do and we'll go from there.

Yes you're always there which I appreciate but again, starting up a game to get to the welcome screen should involve no questions at all - surely we've moved on beyond the "select sound card, set IRQ, choose graphics card" days.

No, my first impression based on firing up the game is fair I think. I reported what I was given out of the wrapper and it sucked.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 16

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 5:27:06 PM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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Adam,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Sorry Erik, I like my games ready to play.
Btw I set the options all the way up - chose yes for everything and got a very pale screen. No, some of those options can't be good at all.

I don't know your system, but did you try the settings I suggested? We'll have to agree to disagree on this being ready to play. I don't consider setting the resolution you want, the color depth you want and whether you want anti-aliasing or not to be a hurdle that makes a game unready to play.

quote:

Yes you're always there which I appreciate but again, starting up a game to get to the welcome screen should involve no questions at all - surely we've moved on beyond the "select sound card, set IRQ, choose graphics card" days.
No, my first impression based on firing up the game is fair I think. I reported what I was given out of the wrapper and it sucked.

This is nothing like setting IRQs or configuring drivers. All you really need to choose is resolution, color depth and anti-aliasing. Your first impressions are your own and I can't disagree with your opinion, as it is an opinion, but I do disagree that it's representative of the experience most players will have when playing this game. I hope that you can now get past this though and give the game a second look.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Adam Parker)

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RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 5:28:19 PM

vonRocko

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I have no pixal problems, but I do feel the graphics are "amatuerish" . But the game does run smooth and problem free. Selecting units could use some work, there seems to be a slight delay when I click a unit and the selection ring appears.This has made me drop parachutist by accident because I'm trying to select the transport and click twice. I haven't seen any bugs yet!
It is not deep strategy,but I am having fun with it.

(in reply to Adam Parker)

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RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 5:29:58 PM

Erik Rutins

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A delay when clicking could mean your system is not keeping up - I don't know what your system specs are, but if you turned the settings all the way up as far as say anti-aliasing goes, you might crank them down a few notches and see if the delay disappears.

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 5:43:56 PM

Kipper

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The whole thing reminds of back in the 90s when you had to tweak your HIMEM and Expanded Memory etc. to get a game going. I remember having to do that with the original PG! Combine that with the PG gaming experience and we are talking seriously retro!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 20

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 5:59:54 PM

Erik Rutins

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It's nothing like that. I did plenty of gaming in the DOS days and had separate config.sys and autoexec.bat configurations for different occasions.

The only thing you really _need_ to do is choose the resolution you want to run in before the game loads. You can also choose to use anti-aliasing if you want.

Frankly, I don't want to keep posting about this and make it seem like I'm getting on Adam's case, but I don't want this game that most players haven't even tried yet to get some kind of reputation for bad graphics or complex configuration requirements, neither of which are true.

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 9/10/2009 6:05:45 PM >

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 6:09:30 PM

moltobenny

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I haven't bought the game yet, but I haven't heard any complaints in this thread that make me NOT want to buy it. I have plenty of games that ask you first what resolution you want to run at! I much prefer this to the other option, which is to have it pick for you, and then have to go into various Options... Graphics... menus, select a new resolution, then often have to restart the game.

Honestly, this thread has done more to encourage me to purchase the game, rather than discourage.

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RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 6:10:16 PM

killroyishere

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Well I was all ready for this one since it was advertised as beer&pretzels, but, Adam has shown the light and I think I'll wait awhile and see how things turn out. Like Elvis used to sing "Only fools rush in".

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Post #: 23

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 6:21:27 PM

moltobenny

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Yes, but he also ate fried banana, bacon, and peanut butter sandwiches, and died on a toilet. So, you know. You have to take that into account too.

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RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 6:33:55 PM

Balthazar Gerards

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quote:

ORIGINAL: moltobenny

Yes, but he also ate fried banana, bacon, and peanut butter sandwiches, and died on a toilet. So, you know. You have to take that into account too.

lol! priceless!

_____________________________

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RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 6:35:23 PM

LarryP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: moltobenny

Yes, but he also ate fried banana, bacon, and peanut butter sandwiches, and died on a toilet. So, you know. You have to take that into account too.

I'm laughing so hard I can't see straight...

(in reply to moltobenny)

Post #: 26

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 7:47:35 PM

bssybeep

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I configured the game for 1600x1200 and anti-aliasing at the start-up and the units look fine. I would prefer the units actually moved like PG with animated treads, dust, etc. but so far the game looks good. Looking to spend more time with it.

(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 27

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 8:54:56 PM

brianlala

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I have to agree with bssybeep. the graphics may not be everyone's cup of tea but they at least look fine/acceptable. Things look polished enough for me and I did not get the impression that this was a game still in development or made in a "garage".

The complaint about the start up of OGRE does seem somewhat overdone but it was fairly confusing for me too the first time as well (I did not read the manual before playing though).

(in reply to bssybeep)

Post #: 28

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 10:46:08 PM

Adam Parker

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From: Melbourne Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Frankly, I don't want to keep posting about this and make it seem like I'm getting on Adam's case...

That's ok Erik. Treat me like a food critic who saw something questionable in the kitchen before the food came out.

Note my edit to my original post too.

Adam.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 29

RE: First Impressions Are Easy Sometimes - 9/10/2009 10:55:01 PM

TheWombat_matrixforum

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My only real complaints are that I don't see the need for the 3D--I don't think it adds anything and I'd prefer PG style 2D maps, and more instantly legible units/counters. Beyond that the actual game is pretty good, and seems to deliver what was promised. The graphics are certainly ok, just not my cup of tea; YMMV. All in all it seems worth the price.

(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 30

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