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THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/13/2009 11:09:08 PM   
Larac

 

Posts: 250
Joined: 9/5/2004
Status: offline 		I know alot of folks really like it, and I am thinking about getting it.

The price of course makes me slow down a bit, but from what I read it seems to be worth it.

Fixed incomes are not good for gamers.

Can a few folks give me a line or two on what WITP does so well every wargamer into WWII should play it?

I guess I am trying to talk myself into it and need a little help, spending 100USD on a computer game, as if if get it I'll need that manual :)

Thanks for the help
Lee
Post #: 1
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/13/2009 11:21:09 PM   
Max 86


Posts: 699
Joined: 11/6/2007
Status: offline 		This game provides a level of detail not for the faint hearted. You get to manage every squadron, land combat unit, and ship involved in the conflict from India to California, from N. Zealand to Eastern Russia and Alaska. Each unit type is historically represented so that the player needs to understand what the difference is between a Japanese Betty bomber or a Val, operationally speaking.

This game also makes the player manage the reaqr area units not usually included in most games. When you take a base, you cannot automatically start using the base until you move "Base Forces" to run the base, "Aviation Eng" units to repair or increase the size of the airbase. Players must form TFs to provide fuel an supplies to each of their bases.

Overall this game requires a level of management I find challenging and also educational. I have a greater understanding (and respect) of Japanese unit types for instance that I would never have gained otherwise. Its a huge game, very entertaining but also very time consuming.

Hope this helps.

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Post #: 2
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/13/2009 11:33:18 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Max has given a pretty good description.  I would suggest that every WWII wargamer should not play it, only those that love the details.  The best way I can describe that is that most of us who love this game spend at least as much time thinking about our moves, scheming, and planning our next turns, as we actually spend "playing" the game.  For many of us, it's way more time planning than "playing."  That's where I learn the most, and what makes it so addictive for me. 

If that sounds good to you, you will never regret spending the money.  It will be fractions of pennys per hour spent with the game by the time you stop playing.  If that sounds scary to you, you want to look for a different kind of game. 

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"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


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Post #: 3
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/13/2009 11:34:52 PM   
ltfightr


Posts: 537
Joined: 6/16/2002
From: Little Rock AR
Status: offline 		As many others have said the best thing about this game is the value for the dollar. True the upfront costs are high but you will play this game for years.

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Post #: 4
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 12:20:50 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Another agreement on the price - your cost per hour of play will be mind-bogglingly low. You will not feel the need to buy other games. It will be "fixed income" and "fixed cost"! Until the next version comes out (in a few years, at least).

(in reply to ltfightr)
Post #: 5
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 12:46:37 AM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		This is definitely not a beer and pretzels game.  But it is the best, most detailed and historically accurate wargame ever made.  And it is the best value {price per hour played} of any computer game ever.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 6
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 12:58:30 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

This is definitely not a beer and pretzels game.  But it is the best, most detailed and historically accurate wargame ever made.  And it is the best value {price per hour played} of any computer game ever.

+1

(in reply to rockmedic109)
Post #: 7
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 1:12:44 AM   
DaveConn

 

Posts: 254
Joined: 5/3/2001
From: Bainbridge Island, Washington
Status: offline 		+2, in spades.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 8
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 1:39:53 AM   
pmelheck1

 

Posts: 610
Joined: 4/3/2003
From: Alabama
Status: offline 		This game is absolutely outstanding.  The best on the market when it comes to the whole Pacific theater.  This is not everybody's cup of tea by any means.  Folks who don't like supply will despise this game.  It models logistics for the whole theater in depth.  If you hate the idea of handling convoys to each of your bases this isn't your game.  If your like some of us here and enjoy thinking about only being able to make 50 supply convoys and have 100 bases needing supply.  That supply for the U.S. came from the  U.S. and didn't magically appear at pacific bases no mater how far behind the lines.  Even Pearl Harbor must be kept in supplies and fuel.  I enjoy sweating out a journey being made by one of my ships my opponent has turned into swiss cheese to a base to stabilize it and even then you may still lose it en-route to a shipyard for repair.  And this is just the navel portion of the game not to mention the air and land portion of the game.  WITP:AE for me is WELL worth what I paid.  Some of use do submit ideas for changes but this is to try to improve what we feel is an already outstanding game.  Many of us here are historians and of course will argue as the day is long over to what to others may seem as minor, but the fact so many historians are here and playing speaks volumes about this game.

Don't know if this will help but it's nice to know what WITP is and what it isn't.  One final note as others point out the level of micromanagement is staggering. The game comes with a standalone tool to help you manage some of the management. This is the only game I know of with this kind of tool to help play the game.


< Message edited by mullk -- 9/14/2009 1:44:36 AM >

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Post #: 9
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 2:13:04 AM   
jazman

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 1/20/2007
From: Crush Depth
Status: offline 		The subtle warning in the above comments is "you will give up playing other games." Not that you'd miss them...


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BS, MS, PhD, WitP:AE, WitE, WitW

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Post #: 10
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 3:42:59 AM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3119
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline 		The thing about this game is its playing longevity, there is no getting bored with WitP AE after a few weeks play. It is not a game for instant gratification though, and it soaks up time like a black hole. But if you want a deep multi-layered game, and not a flashy superficial experience, then this is the game for you.

_____________________________


When you see the Southern Cross, For the first time
You understand now, Why you came this way

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Post #: 11
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 3:55:13 AM   
Kadota

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 2/4/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jazman

The subtle warning in the above comments is "you will give up playing other games." Not that you'd miss them...




Yeah, this game is going to clear up a lot of space on my hard drive.

(in reply to jazman)
Post #: 12
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 5:17:58 AM   
thegreatwent


Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline
quote:

As many others have said the best thing about this game is the value for the dollar. True the upfront costs are high but you will play this game for years.


I second this statement provided you can find the time to play and climb the learning cliff. I've played WitP for years and still do so only at an average level. Proficiency in AE will probably take me many months (make that years). I suggest reading the AAR's to get a sense of the game.

If you decide to jump in don't be afraid to post questions, for the most part the players who frequent these boards are eager to help if they can.

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Post #: 13
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 5:33:33 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		This game is dedication by it self.This game is the complete opposite of Command and Conquer.I would say you have to love the genre to get into this game.Hate reading manuals? This game isn't for you.

Now I understand what these guys mean about this game.The game is massive, and well worth it.There's no repetition in the game either.Don't expect to get bored building the same base every game and bored in a couple weeks(Like how in just 2 weeks after I got Command and Conquer 3, I stopped playing it altogether.The repetitive gameplay, coupled with the a$$holes online, I just stopped playing and went back to JTCS)

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 9/14/2009 5:35:31 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 8:04:52 AM   
comte


Posts: 2358
Joined: 2/4/2009
From: Be'eri, Hadarom, Israel
Status: offline 		Buy it it's worth every penny

(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 15
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 8:08:40 AM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline 		What you should know about the game is the time scale !
with one day turn, it take a very long time for operations (or even raids) to end !
it mean, in your real life, if you think about THIS huge supply convoy you are trying to sneak between japanese bombers to the isolated place you want to help, it will not occur in a single turn and in a single real-day life, but you will wait for a result for maybe a week.
If you are waiting for your reinforcements, if it is supposed to come in 17 days of game, you could wait for 17 in real-life (if you manage to play 1 turn a day....).
So think about it: things are long. The Grand Campaign is something like 1500 turns long.

Otherwise, it is a great game

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Post #: 16
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 9:58:09 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

This is definitely not a beer and pretzels game.  But it is the best, most detailed and historically accurate wargame ever made.  And it is the best value {price per hour played} of any computer game ever.


It actually depends on the player. Some might just play a few hours and decide to quit the game because they figured they won't be able to reach the end of the campaign in their lifetime.

This is my usual reaction to RPG games (those 400-hour RPG games!!!). I play, get into the story, and then forget about it because there's still so much to do.

But it's not the case with WitP AE. I always find myself itching to play another day just to see what happens next.

< Message edited by jomni -- 9/14/2009 10:00:35 AM >

(in reply to rockmedic109)
Post #: 17
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 1:34:29 PM   
Hanzberger


Posts: 921
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: SE Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Just do it.

(in reply to jomni)
Post #: 18
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 2:30:56 PM   
Iridium


Posts: 932
Joined: 4/1/2005
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger

Just do it.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Iridium -- 9/14/2009 2:32:28 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 4:16:29 PM   
invernomuto


Posts: 986
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

This is definitely not a beer and pretzels game.  But it is the best, most detailed and historically accurate wargame ever made.  And it is the best value {price per hour played} of any computer game ever.


+3



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(in reply to rockmedic109)
Post #: 20
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 4:43:28 PM   
sandman2575


Posts: 310
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Larac

I know alot of folks really like it, and I am thinking about getting it.

The price of course makes me slow down a bit, but from what I read it seems to be worth it.

Fixed incomes are not good for gamers.

Can a few folks give me a line or two on what WITP does so well every wargamer into WWII should play it?

I guess I am trying to talk myself into it and need a little help, spending 100USD on a computer game, as if if get it I'll need that manual :)

Thanks for the help
Lee




Just to add the perspective of a newbie –

I come to WitP: AE as a Hearts of Iron 3 refugee. Bought HoI3 the day it came out, and was a huge fan of the series. But I’ve shelved it for now, and I suspect for several months to come. Even after hotfixes and a major patch, the game is plagued by major bugs and a lobotomized AI. It’s simply not fun in its current state.

So, feeling the need for a grand WWII strategy game, I started to look more & more into WitP. I had the same hesitations as you. “$100 for a single game? Hearts of Iron was only $40. And it sounds almost unbelievably complicated. I’m a WW2 enthusiast, very knowledgeable and have played many WW2 computer games… But can’t claim to be a true grognard…”

I hemmed & hawed for a couple of weeks. Then, feeling plenty bored by not being able to play the deep WWII strategy game I had expected in HoI3, I bought WitP: AE.

Let me be completely honest. When I fired it up for the first time and looked & clicked around the map and UI idly for a few minutes, I had an initial pang of buyer’s remorse. “Uh oh… $100 for this?? The task force icons on the map look like something out of Atari’s “Combat.”

So, just so you’re prepared if you do buy it: if you think the gfx of Paradox titles are lackluster, be prepared to be taken aback by the no-frills look of WitP.

But of course, as I’m sure everyone in this forum will attest: judge a strategy game not by its graphics. Agreed. I personally think HoI3, for example, looks really great. But right now it’s a Porsche with a VW Bug’s engine (…notice the pun on “bug”). WitP is by contrast a humble looking Ford Focus with a V10 600 horsepower 6 liter turbo.

In other words, it’s all in the guts. And to be honest, the look of WitP has definitely grown on me. The thumbnails of the aircraft – and there are *a lot* of models -- are especially pleasing.

And if you do wind up buying WitP, a piece of friendly advice: PAY THE EXTRA $$ FOR THE PHYSICAL SOFTWARE **WITH THE MANUAL.** I’m glad I did.

You cannot play this game without thoroughly reading the manual. And I for one cannot read 300+ pages in PDF form. Yes, the manual is 300+ pages.

In fact, reading the manual is what turned my initial gut-reaction disappointment into genuine fascination. The manual really is fascinating. It’s incredibly well documented. And once you get a sense of all the things you can – and have – to do in this game, you will probably get hooked, as I am starting to be.

There truly are things in WitP that can make Hearts of Iron feel like Risk by comparison. It’s *that* deep.

The one thing I’m wondering now is… How am I going to find time to play this beast? It’s absorbingly time-consuming. Your first turn especially so – you have a lot of Task Forces and missions to assign in the first turn (if you want). I’ve made a few aborted efforts on the ‘grand campaign’ and have just begun a new one with the new patch. Let’s put it this way – I’ve spent hours setting up my first move – I still have more to go – and I haven’t pressed “End Turn” yet.

So I’m hoping the pace will pick up a little after the first couple of turns… But, end of story: I’ve put away HoI3, and I’m not missing it at all. WitP has definitely sucked me into its vortex of OOB’s and convoy assignments...




(in reply to Larac)
Post #: 21
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 5:02:23 PM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3119
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline 		My goodness Sandman, if you can learn to play this game as good as you can write, you will be a hell of a Pbem opponent!



Edit: And welcome to the game Sandman2575.

< Message edited by DivePac88 -- 9/14/2009 5:05:27 PM >

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When you see the Southern Cross, For the first time
You understand now, Why you came this way

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Post #: 22
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 5:05:15 PM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		The pace does pick up after a few turns.  The first turn takes a LOOONNNNGGG time.  And if you miss something, you've only lost one day;  it's a long war.  Once you get everything set up right much of the "housekeeping" operations take care of themselves.

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Post #: 23
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 5:18:13 PM   
scott64


Posts: 4019
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		And you get heart pounding/stopping action like this. Just one more turn

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Deboyne Islands at 101,140

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 51 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20
B5N2 Kate x 58



Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 11


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Kilty, Bomb hits 1
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CA Houston, Bomb hits 1
DD Crane
DD Dent
DD Porter
CA Chicago


You never know what is just around the corner

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Post #: 24
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 6:45:26 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Yeah, the 1st turn will take a long time, because you are setting hundreds of units off on their missions, but after that, you just add a few more fresh units each turn to "keep the boys up front moving in the right direction"..You develop strategies after a few turns you had not considered earlier, based on the experiences of your units, weaknesses of your enemy....It is fun when you see that happen.

I read the manual for WITP once, never opened it again because the Forum is full of nice folks smarter than me who will answer any question I might have.

After a couple of years, even WITP became a "beer and pretzels game"....

I have only bought 2 wargames since I purchased WITP years ago, (which saved a ton of money).

I bought War Between The States, and WITP-AE.....(Glutton for punishment, or addict?)

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Post #: 25
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 6:53:32 PM   
stuman


Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Larac

I know alot of folks really like it, and I am thinking about getting it.

The price of course makes me slow down a bit, but from what I read it seems to be worth it.

Fixed incomes are not good for gamers.

Can a few folks give me a line or two on what WITP does so well every wargamer into WWII should play it?

I guess I am trying to talk myself into it and need a little help, spending 100USD on a computer game, as if if get it I'll need that manual :)

Thanks for the help
Lee




Buy the game. Come join the cult, erm I mean gang. Sorry, I mean group of fanatical followers, opps, I mean our " club ". Your new life will be AE, work, family, exercise. Either in that order, or you can maybe skip the last three.

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Post #: 26
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 7:28:09 PM   
sandman2575


Posts: 310
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

I read the manual for WITP once, never opened it again because the Forum is full of nice folks smarter than me who will answer any question I might have.





I'm definitely finding this to be true -- seems to be a very supportive & responsive group on these forums. (For contrast, check out the Paradox HoI3 forums... OK, I'm done kvetching about HoI now... got it out of my system.)

Thanks everyone for the feedback & tips.


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

After a couple of years, even WITP became a "beer and pretzels game"....





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Post #: 27
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 7:44:07 PM   
Hokum

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 4/14/2002
From: France
Status: offline 		Well once you figure out that all you have to do is to set up major hubs and develop your operations from there, turns go quite fast.

The first 6 months are really long because it's basically a set-up phase on steroids. Once you've passed it, you only have minor adjustments to do.

(in reply to sandman2575)
Post #: 28
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 7:47:00 PM   
Swayin


Posts: 317
Joined: 1/27/2007
From: Bellingham, WA
Status: offline 		I tried to explain the fascination with this game to my wife by telling her it was like a chess match on a board the size of our living room floor, and never, ever the same game twice.

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Post #: 29
RE: THinking Hard ABout this one - 9/14/2009 10:38:13 PM   
PresterJohn001


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/11/2009
Status: offline 		To be fair Hearts of Iron and War in the Pacific are completely different is style and depth. World in Flames when it comes out is more
comparable to HoI - but will be better :) (WiF fan!!)

WiTP AE is an amazing game, not for the faint of heart but theres plenty of help if you need it from the forums...

(in reply to Swayin)
Post #: 30
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