RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (Allies)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (Allies)

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RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:08:37 AM

seydlitz_slith

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Joined: 6/16/2002
From: Danville, IL
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Turn 33 Jan 8, 1942

The turn opened with a bang...but not the one that I wanted.

A surprise night time naval attack on a convoy at anchor at Kanko in Korea.

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RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:10:14 AM

seydlitz_slith

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The situation went from bad to worse with several ships being torpedoed before they could get underway.

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RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:18:12 AM

seydlitz_slith

Posts: 2036
Joined: 6/16/2002
From: Danville, IL
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In fact, the navy did not give a good account of itself in this action, and this failure will certainly cause a shock in Japan as mighty as that in Britain after the American frigates defeated the British Frigates in individual actions during the War of 1812.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kanko at 105,47, Range 1,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Tachikaze, Shell hits 24, and is sunk
TB Chidori, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
TB Hatsukari, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
TB Tomozuru, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Brisbane Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAK Hawaii Maru, Shell hits 20, and is sunk
xAK Kano Maru, Shell hits 24, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Ryanyi
DD Rezhtelnyi
DD Buistro
DD Stalin
DD Revanch

Reduced sighting due to 64% moonlight...
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 64% moonlight: 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards......
Range closes to 2,000 yards......
Range closes to 1,000 yards......

DD Tachikaze engages DD Revanch at 1,000 yards...
TB Tomozuru engages DD Revanch at 1,000 yards...
TB Hatsukari engages DD Revanch at 1,000 yards...
DD Rezhtelnyi engages DD Tachikaze at 1,000 yards...
DD Revanch engages xAK Kano Maru at 1,000 yards...
DD Revanch engages xAK Hawaii Maru at 1,000 yards...
DD Revanch engages xAK Brisbane Maru at 1,000 yards...
Range increases to 2,000 yards...
DD Revanch engages DD Tachikaze at 2,000 yards...
DD Stalin engages xAK Hawaii Maru at 2,000 yards...
DD Buistro engages DD Tachikaze at 2,000 yards...
TB Chidori engages DD Rezhtelnyi at 2,000 yards...
DD Revanch engages xAK Kano Maru at 2,000 yards...
xAK Brisbane Maru sunk by DD Buistro at 2,000 yards...

Range increases to 4,000 yards...
DD Revanch engages DD Tachikaze at 4,000 yards...
DD Tachikaze engages DD Stalin at 4,000 yards...
DD Buistro engages DD Tachikaze at 4,000 yards...
DD Buistro engages TB Chidori at 4,000 yards...
DD Tachikaze sunk by DD Ryanyi at 4,000 yards...

DD Stalin engages xAK Hawaii Maru at 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
DD Stalin engages TB Tomozuru at 3,000 yards...
DD Buistro engages xAK Hawaii Maru at 3,000 yards...
TB Tomozuru sunk by DD Rezhtelnyi at 3,000 yards...

DD Revanch engages TB Chidori at 3,000 yards...
DD Stalin engages xAK Hawaii Maru at 3,000 yards...
DD Buistro engages xAK Hawaii Maru at 3,000 yards...
DD Ryanyi engages xAK Kano Maru at 3,000 yards...
Range increases to 4,000 yards...
DD Revanch engages xAK Hawaii Maru at 4,000 yards...
DD Stalin engages xAK Kano Maru at 4,000 yards...
DD Buistro engages xAK Hawaii Maru at 4,000 yards...
DD Rezhtelnyi engages xAK Hawaii Maru at 4,000 yards...
DD Ryanyi engages TB Chidori at 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
TB Chidori sunk by DD Revanch at 2,000 yards...

DD Buistro engages xAK Kano Maru at 2,000 yards...
DD Ryanyi engages xAK Kano Maru at 2,000 yards...
DD Stalin engages xAK Kano Maru at 2,000 yards...
DD Rezhtelnyi engages xAK Hawaii Maru at 2,000 yards...
DD Ryanyi engages xAK Hawaii Maru at 2,000 yards...
DD Rezhtelnyi engages xAK Kano Maru at 2,000 yards...
DD Stalin engages xAK Kano Maru at 2,000 yards...
DD Buistro engages xAK Kano Maru at 2,000 yards...
DD Ryanyi engages xAK Kano Maru at 2,000 yards...
DD Stalin engages xAK Kano Maru at 2,000 yards...
DD Ryanyi engages xAK Kano Maru at 2,000 yards...
Range increases to 3,000 yards...
DD Revanch engages xAK Kano Maru at 3,000 yards...
DD Buistro engages xAK Kano Maru at 3,000 yards...
xAK Kano Maru sunk by DD Ryanyi at 3,000 yards...

Combat ends with last Japanese ship sunk......

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Post #: 393

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:19:50 AM

seydlitz_slith

Posts: 2036
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From: Danville, IL
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Of course, our press release will not mention that we were defeated in battle by the Russians and by a ship named STALIN in particular....

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Post #: 394

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:26:21 AM

seydlitz_slith

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From: Danville, IL
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The storm story is very believable. In 1934 Tomozuru was a new ship and was caught in a gale that damaged several ships. She capsized with significant loss of lift. The navy towed the capsized destroyer back to port, righted it, and determined that there was too much topweight (in the form of guns and torpedoes) for the limited displacement. They had to rework all ships of the class.

But enough history....

I followed up with multiple night bombing attacks on Vladivostok where I did significant damage to anchored ships.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Vladivostok , at 112,46

Weather in hex: Light rain

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 42

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 10 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
I-153: 2 destroyed on ground
I-16m24: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
DD Rekordnyi, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Voronov, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS ShCh-105, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage

Repair Shipyard hits 1
Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Vladivostok , at 112,46

Weather in hex: Light rain

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 16
G4M1 Betty x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Rekordnyi, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
AM Podsekate, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAK Voronov, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Port hits 1

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Post #: 395

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:28:50 AM

seydlitz_slith

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From: Danville, IL
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Inspired by this action, My Lily bombers made a night attack on Cavite Port (Manila) in Luzon and also had success.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Manila , at 79,77

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Japanese aircraft
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Thanet, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 2 x 100 kg GP Bomb

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet....
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes...

It appears that DD Thanet had limped in there after being hit during her escape from Hong Kong.

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Post #: 396

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:34:03 AM

seydlitz_slith

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The day dawned with my fighter sweeps again appearing over Vladivostok, guided by the smoke from the strikes during the night. This inspired my pilots and we scattered the Russian pilots like cherry blossom petals blowing in the storm winds.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Vladivostok , at 112,46

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 31

Allied aircraft
I-153 x 14
I-16m24 x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
I-153: 4 destroyed
I-16m24: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 16000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Vladivostok , at 112,46

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 16 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 9

Allied aircraft
I-15bis x 13
I-153 x 19
I-16m24 x 1

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
I-15bis: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Vladivostok , at 112,46

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8

Allied aircraft
I-15bis x 2
I-153 x 13
I-16m24 x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
I-15bis: 1 destroyed
I-153: 1 destroyed
I-16m24: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 10000 feet *

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Post #: 397

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:37:57 AM

seydlitz_slith

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He did conduct bombing attacks on my ground units north of Rybilov, at Birobidzhan, and east of Hailar. I had a range of Sally attacks scheduled for Birobidzhan but thanks to the weather they did not fly.

Accordingly, my ground units there attacked without air support and were not successful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Birobidzhan (117,39)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 21905 troops, 199 guns, 186 vehicles, Assault Value = 667

Defending force 31208 troops, 495 guns, 706 vehicles, Assault Value = 711

Japanese adjusted assault: 229

Allied adjusted defense: 2560

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 11 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
873 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 81 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 54 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Vehicles lost 27 (1 destroyed, 26 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
362 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 49 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Guns lost 4 (0 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 16 (0 destroyed, 16 disabled)

Assaulting units:...
10th Division...
23rd Tank Regiment...
8th Garrison Unit ...
24th Ind. Engineer Regiment...
10th Mortar Battalion...
10th Mortar Battalion...
...
Defending units:...
1st Amurskaya Tank Brigade...
102nd Region Fortress...
44th NKVD Regiment...
34th Rifle Division...
3rd Amurskaya Tank Brigade...
15th Army...
46th/302nd AA Battalion...
129th Engineer Battalion...
145th Howitzer Regiment...
1121st Cannon Regiment...
424th Hvy Howitzer Regiment...
52nd Cannon Regiment...
147th/155th PVO AA Battalion...
70th VVS Base Force...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Post #: 398

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:39:53 AM

seydlitz_slith

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He of course counterattacked but did not drive me from the hex. However, I plan to pull back to the woods hex to the NW. No point in taking excess casualties when I do not have enough forces to drive him from the hex.

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Post #: 399

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:41:17 AM

seydlitz_slith

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Here is the situation in Manchkuo

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RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:42:37 AM

seydlitz_slith

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Here is Mongolia along with comments regarding supply. In short, we are ok as long as we stay on the road.

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RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:46:46 AM

seydlitz_slith

Posts: 2036
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From: Danville, IL
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In north china, I drove the Chinese from the mountains at 92,38:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 92,38

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 19685 troops, 146 guns, 69 vehicles, Assault Value = 708

Defending force 16067 troops, 115 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 266

Japanese adjusted assault: 451

Allied adjusted defense: 163

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), fatigue(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
447 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 54 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 21 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
5270 casualties reported
Squads: 210 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 221 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 2

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:...
2nd NCPC Infantry Brigade...
36th Division...
13th Indpt Infantry Regiment...
12th Indpt Infantry Regiment...
4th NCPC Infantry Brigade...
...
Defending units:...
35th Chinese Corps...
3rd Prov Chinese Corps...
13th Group Army...

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Post #: 402

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:51:48 AM

seydlitz_slith

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At Changsha I just bombarded while I removed disruption.

At Loyang I launched a deliberate attack against his large forces but only reduced the fort level instead of kicking him out. I am certain that patience will pay off here as it is difficult for him to defend this clear hex. I have a couple more units enroute to help, but if he sticks it out here too long then my units moving north of the river will reach Sian before he can get his Loyang troops back to defend. Then they will be trapped in the woods without supply (as if the Chinese had supplies anyways).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Loyang (87,43)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 43955 troops, 310 guns, 74 vehicles, Assault Value = 1219

Defending force 60469 troops, 318 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1283

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 525

Allied adjusted defense: 486

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
3531 casualties reported
Squads: 11 destroyed, 369 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 154 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
3703 casualties reported
Squads: 59 destroyed, 112 disabled
Non Combat: 21 destroyed, 207 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Assaulting units:...
7th Ind.Mixed Brigade...
3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade...
8th Ind.Mixed Brigade...
35th Division...
32nd Division...
...
Defending units:...
98th Chinese Corps...
9th Chinese Corps...
80th Chinese Corps...
34th Chinese Corps...
93rd Chinese Corps...
33rd Chinese Corps...
40th Chinese Corps...
15th Chinese Corps...
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps...
27th Chinese Corps...
5th New Chinese Corps...
15th Group Army...
4th Chinese Base Force...
10th Chinese Base Force...
39th Group Army...
24th Group Army...
14th Group Army...
1st War Area ...
7th Group Army...
36th Group Army...
3rd Construction Regiment...
Jingcha War Area ...
7th Construction Regiment...

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Post #: 403

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:53:12 AM

seydlitz_slith

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Here is a summary of aircraft losses during the turn.

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RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:55:04 AM

seydlitz_slith

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And here is my aces leaderboard. Note that there are several Oscar pilots with 3 kills but I am showing only the first screen with the true aces. Most of them are Buffalo Hunters like Wild Bill Hicock....

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Post #: 405

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 4:57:12 AM

seydlitz_slith

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The damaged Haruna is finally sailing for Kure for repairs. Hopefully she will make it. We did all we could for her at Cam Ranh Bay. She will be escorted by several destroyers and minesweepers that are heading there for their first upgrade.

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Post #: 406

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 5:00:09 AM

seydlitz_slith

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Meanwile, at Yokohama the BB Fuso is still in the yard having her engines repaired. Tokyo couldn't handle the job in their dock so she had to come here. Her old powerplant just can't stand up to anything more strenuous than swinging around the anchor chain.

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Post #: 407

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 5:02:28 AM

seydlitz_slith

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Meanwhile, the rest of the battle line is tied up at Tokyo getting their repairs done. Steaming up north is very hard on the ships and several of the battleships had engineering casualties during the cruise.

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Post #: 408

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 5:03:52 AM

seydlitz_slith

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Speaking of the weather, it doesn't look good for next turn either...

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Post #: 409

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 5:07:01 AM

seydlitz_slith

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Thunderstorms during winter in the cold zone equal snow and blizzard conditions.

Now, for my last section, here is a trick that I am using to hunt subs.

First, I select the smallest, least valuable xAK that I can find. I leave it empty (probably filled with cellulose or other floatable materials) and give it a heavy ASW escort as follows:

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Post #: 410

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 5:11:21 AM

seydlitz_slith

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As you can see, this old gal has a pretty hefty escort. I even put a DD with a good TF commander in charge. The TF will sail out a bit and loiter. The others will also go to expected hotspots and run patrol routes. We will see if this tactic draws in any subs. There should be enough ships that the xAKL will draw the fire and enough ASW assets to persecute the contact. I do not antcipate any surface attacks due to the number of escorts.

Here is BAIT TF 2. You can see her patrol zone on the map next to the TF box.

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Post #: 411

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 5:12:08 AM

seydlitz_slith

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BAIT TF 3

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RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 5:13:18 AM

seydlitz_slith

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BAIT TF 5. I actually have about 12 of these sailing this turn to cover different areas.

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Post #: 413

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 5:14:45 AM

seydlitz_slith

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Lots of pics and posts for the turn, but hopefully you found it worth it. The pictures help tell the story and in some cases demonstrate the concept better than words alone. Hopefully everyone is enjoying the AAR.

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Post #: 414

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 5:18:54 AM

Xxzard

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Clever tactic--- if it works. I don't recall this having been done much before in games I've seen.

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Post #: 415

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 9:08:09 AM

bklooste

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seydlitz

Yes they do. However I anticipate using all of my airborne units down south for the next three months. One unit is currently enroute to Miri so that I can drop then in at Tarakan, and the other two are on Luzon.

I also wonder what type of garrisons are stationed at those railway outposts. So far there have been experienced Russians behind every tree.

Transports can fly them in rest occupy , fly in a base force then you can fly them back south. Prob worth a 2 week break wont have much preparation though. Even 1 unit could cause havock if all the bases are undefended. Mainly thinking of it from the angle that he will rush troops to stop your northern attack the more bases you take the more time you have to reinforce.

Recon will probably show you what is there , If its a static your in trouble if its mobile he would have sent some south or to the SE.

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Post #: 416

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 9:42:42 AM

bklooste

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quote:

1st Amurskaya Tank Brigade...
102nd Region Fortress...
3rd Amurskaya Tank Brigade...
46th/302nd AA Battalion...
129th Engineer Battalion...
145th Howitzer Regiment...
1121st Cannon Regiment...
424th Hvy Howitzer Regiment...
52nd Cannon Regiment...
147th/155th PVO AA Battalion...

Ouch some nice stuff their... 4 arty Rgt a fortress and a tank Brigade!

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Post #: 417

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 10:05:51 AM

CaptBeefheart

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From: Seoul, Korea
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This is a great AAR! I am quite interested in your Russian strategy. Good luck with that. I'll need to check this about once a week or so.

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

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Post #: 418

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 10:24:02 AM

Smeulders

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Interested in the bait tactics, if it can destroy/damage enough subs it seems worth it, but doens't it draw a lot of escorts away from your real convoys?

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Post #: 419

RE: Nomonhan Redux: Seydlitz (Japan) vs. MBatch729 (All... - 9/21/2009 12:37:07 PM

seydlitz_slith

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Interested in the bait tactics, if it can destroy/damage enough subs it seems worth it, but doens't it draw a lot of escorts away from your real convoys?

It does, but right now it is a trade off. I won't go into full swing with my convoys until I finish capturing the SRA and that is when I will feel the pressure. I also increased excorts by converting several xAKLs to PB. Also, I have several escorts tied up with invasion convoys now that will be freed up later when I need them.

(in reply to Smeulders)

Post #: 420

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