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Additional aircraft info - 9/23/2009 6:32:55 PM

Thales99

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I eagerly awaited the re-release of this game and am about to start with an Axis campaign. However, there are some important details I couldn't find in the game or manual so far (maybe I just overlooked the information):

- Altitude performance differences of aircraft
- Default date of availability for researchable aircraft
- Possible research/production penalties for certain parts (e.g. jet engines?)

That information would be very handy for planning of future aircraft production priorities.

Post #: 1

RE: Additional aircraft info - 9/23/2009 7:53:15 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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I had notes for that, then they wanted to do it a different way, then lost those notes with the computer crash

so for a basic, Low is about 0 to 12-14 K, Med is 15-20, High is over 20 K

LW, for high alt not being good

FW 190 over 20 K starts to decay fast, good med and low

Bf 109s good at med, okay at high

109 H, Bv 155, Ta 152 very good high

for the CW

for Spitfires look at the wing type

LF is for low Alt
HF is for High Alt
F is plain, good or about the same across the board

Tiffy, Mustangs should stay med to low

Kittyhawks, P-39s and P-40s, low to med
early P-38s low to med, very poor over 20K

rest of the US fighters are going to be good up high, early P-47 is bad down low

for dates

look at the unit page, it will list some of the starting dates if they are close

some of the models will have test kommandos that will come out before the plane is ready, that will show the date

(now you could reseach faster then the kommandos)

mainly, no bottlenecks, if you can build it, you can build it, most of the hassles are built into the planes themselfs (262 cost alot of engines)

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RE: Additional aircraft info - 9/23/2009 7:54:14 PM

Hard Sarge

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I am going to move this to the FAQ area, and I will try and get you the dates in the morning

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Post #: 3

RE: Additional aircraft info - 9/24/2009 3:34:59 PM

DBS

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With regards to production penalties, one thing you will find, if you look closely at the Luftwaffe production system, is that some aircraft are listed as needing twice as many engines as they physically toted - eg the Fiat G.55 needs two engines, the Me262 needs four. THIS IS DELIBERATE

. Basically, all Luftwaffe jet fighters require double the real number of engines to represent the short life of early jets. And the Fiat requires two to reflect the fact that its licence-produced Daimler Benz engine suffered particularly from a low priority by the Germans given to delivering certain key components.

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Post #: 4

RE: Additional aircraft info - 9/24/2009 5:08:51 PM

Hard Sarge

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a little info for the 43/44 campaign, LW side

5 Bf 109G-2
6 Bf 109G-5
7 Bf 109G-5/AS ..... 1/44 High
8 Bf 109G-6
9 Bf 109G-6/R6
11 Bf 109G-10 ..... 11/44
12 Bf 109G-10/R6
13 Bf 109G-14 ..... 7/44
14 Bf 109G-14/R6
15 Bf 109H-2 ..... 6/44 very good high
16 Bf 109K-4 ..... 9/44
17 Bf 109K-6
18 Bf 109T-2
20 Bf 109Z-3 ..... 4/45 High good
30 Do 335A-0 ..... 9/44
31 Do 335A ..... 2/45
32 Do 335B ..... 2/45
33 Do 335A-6 ..... 3/45
36 Fw 190A-5
38 Fw 190A-6
39 Fw 190A-6/R1
40 Fw 190A-8 ..... 1/44
41 Fw 190A-8/R1
42 Fw 190A-8/R7
43 Fw 190A-8/R8
46 Fw 190D-9 ..... 9/44 high
52 G.55/I Centauro
53 G.56 Centauro II .....1/45
62 Ju 88C-6a
64 MC.200 Saetta
65 MC.202 Folgore
66 MC.205 Veltro
71 Dar-11 Ljastuvka
72 Avia B.534
73 G.50bis Freccia
74 D.520
75 He 112B-2
76 IAR 81M
77 MS 406
78 Bf 109Ga-2 ..... 9/43
79 Bf 109Ga-6 ..... 11/43
81 Fw 190F
84 Fw 190G
89 Re.2001 Falco II
90 Re.2002 Ariete
91 Re.2005 Sagittario
94 RO 57bis
96 SAI.207
109 Ta 152C .....1/45 High
110 Ta 152H .....12/44 very good High
121 Bf 110G-2
122 Bf 110G-2/R3
123 Me 210Ca-1
124 Me 410A-1
125 Me 410A-1/U2
126 Me 410B-2/R3 .....4/44
127 Me 410B-2/R5
128 Me 410B-2/U2
129 Me 410B-2/U4
131 Bf 109G-6/U4N
133 Fw 190A-5/U2
145 Bf 110G-4
146 Bf 110G-4/M1
148 Bf 110G-4/R7 .....1/44
149 Bf 110G-4/R8
152 CV F.5
153 Do 217J-2
154 Do 217N-2
158 He 219A-0/R2
159 He 219A-2/R1 .....12/43
160 He 219A-5/R4 .....4/44
164 Ju 88C-6
166 Ju 88G .....6/44
168 Ju 388 .....3/44
169 Me 262B .....12/44
170 Re.2001CN
173 Ta 154 .....7/44
176 He 162A .....1/45
177 Me 163B .....5/44
178 Me 262A .....9/44
179 Me 262A-1a/U4
180 Me 262A-0 .....3/44
182 Ta 183 .....10/45
183 Go 229 .....9/45
184 BV 155 .....2/45 Very good High

< Message edited by Hard Sarge -- 9/24/2009 5:13:46 PM >

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RE: Additional aircraft info - 9/24/2009 5:37:40 PM

Thales99

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Thanks a lot, Hard Sarge!

Is there a possibility to include this type of information in a future patch? I know that code changes are difficult for this game, but a system like in WitP:AE (altitude performance and date of arrival displayed on aircraft data screen) would be very welcome.

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Post #: 6

RE: Additional aircraft info - 9/24/2009 8:58:46 PM

Denniss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
146 Bf 110G-4/M1
158 He 219A-0/R2
159 He 219A-2/R1 .....12/43
160 He 219A-5/R4 .....4/44
183 Go 229 .....9/45

If those are in-game then there are some small problems:

1) A Go 229 did not exist, it was the Ho 229, Horten brothers were the designers and Gotha just the company chosen to build the aircraft (or did you see Gotha-produced Bf 110 designated as Go 110 ?)

2) What is a Bf 110 G-4/M1 ? AFAIR the M1 designation was just a R�stsatz (field add-on kit) with some additional equipment (I just currently not remember what it was, may be the two drop tanks or just an additional gun system) but this did not change the designation.

3) The He 219 dates are wrong, The A-2 appeared in Summer 1944 (with improved altitude performance due to the better DB603AA engines) and the next version, the A-7, in December 1944.

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Post #: 7

RE: Additional aircraft info - 9/25/2009 8:52:29 AM

DBS

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As far as the 110G-4/M1 is concerned, the fact it appears in the aircraft listings is a bit of a quirk of the game engine. As you say, it is an add-on Rustsatz kit, and that is exactly how the game handles it - any G-4 unit can be converted to and from M1 simply by clicking on "add extra cannon" or "remove extra cannon" buttons in the unit's window. The game then changes the designation of the aircraft accordingly - the reason for this is so that the Luftwaffe player, when selecting which units to launch on patrols or intercepts, can readily identify which units are flying the modded aircraft.

So don't worry, the production system does not build specific G-4/M1s. Same principle applies to the simpler Rustatz kits for single-engined types.

HS is better placed to comment on your other points - suspect it may be a case of using differing sources. Which is not to say you are wrong, by any means.

David

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Post #: 8

RE: Additional aircraft info - 9/25/2009 1:42:45 PM

Hard Sarge

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well, if you want to get picky, the Ho 229 didn't exist either

it would be either the Ho IX, or 8-229, but since Gotha had to resign the aircraft to try and build it, must books and sources tend to give it the Go Name then the Ho name (since Ho was a very small company, they really didn't build anything)(most writers tend to give the V-1/V-6 models the Ho 229/Go 229 name, when it was 8-229 V6)

the M's were a group of Belly paks, normally taking the place of the bomb bay area, I have to dig to get all of the books that had the info (my main notes were lost with the crash of my computer)

nothing in the game, from my side, is made up, maybe the sources are wrong, or the names are wrong, but they are what the sources are saying, and in all but a few cases, are based on what a number of sources say, not just one

< Message edited by Hard Sarge -- 9/25/2009 1:45:20 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Additional aircraft info - 9/25/2009 2:19:15 PM

Hard Sarge

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a lot of the info on the 219, is confused

basicly, the A-0 was the most built, and that wasn't even a production model, so I think a lot of the records and what not, are naming A-0's as A-2 and A-5s

I am showing in places that the A-5 was being built in Jan 44, when the 3 man cockpit wasn't even tested until later on, the A-2 and A-5 were both in production at the same time

and to be honest, the listing I have of the /R's should be changed to M's

I may go ahead and make the later date for the A-2, and increase the Production rate of the A-0 (which the A-0 is not player buildable, that will put a bit of a cramp in the LW players plans)

that will slow down the AI build rate of the plane, and make the player work HARDer to get it into play, kind of like the idea

(I do have a source showing the A-2 in action in late 43, but my main book on the 219, shows that to be wrong, so I think it is using info about the A-0)

I'll think on it

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Post #: 10

RE: Additional aircraft info - 9/25/2009 6:32:20 PM

tbriert

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Hard Sarge,

I was going through the files in the DAT folder last night looking to see if the data for the aircraft were all in one place so I could make myself a handy reference guide and do some planning. I could not manage to open the .dat files at all and find anything readable, but did notice that there was a BOB excel spreadsheet.

I excitedly opened it up, to see that it had precisely the kind of data i was looking for -- plane model, speed, cruise, ceiling, climb, mvr, etc, and it even had the Best altitude for operation marked.

Then, I was disappointed to see that the data was only there for six planes, Hurricane I, II, and III and Spitfire IA, IIA, and IB.

No other planes were included.

Is this data found somewhere else, or could it be posted in a spreadsheet or other printable form for reference during the game? Dont get me wrong, the in game reference is a nice tool, but you can only see detail on one plane at a time, and I like hard copes of stuff as I am old school.

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RE: Additional aircraft info - 9/28/2009 9:15:37 PM

Denniss

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Most books have the designation of the Ho IX (company designation)/8-229 (RLM project designation)/Ho 229 (RLM aicraft designation) wrong. In fact it would have been the Ho 229 as designer designation - just like the Ta 152 (was built by Focke-Wulf but designed by Kurt Tank's team). Gotha was basically only a production facility selected for the Ho 229.

Regarding the He 219 production you might want to visit http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/RLM/RLM44.html - up to and including March 1944 there were 65 He 219 A-0 produced and taken over by the Luftwaffe. And another note - they were listed as production version and not in the V-Serie (Test aircraft and prototypes).
There are some excerpts from a Heinkel factory document cited in some web forums stating 104 A-0 produced (some of them with A-2 engines) and 85 A-2 built up to and including November 1944. Several hundred A-7 were on order then with delivery to start in December 1944. No A-5 mentioned at all. (Milit�rarchiv Freiburg (BA/MA RL 3/1024 Flugzeug-Programm 227 Ausgabe 1, 9. Januar 1945))

BTW - if you want to keep the aircraft arrival dates historic then shift the Bf 110 G-4/R7 to 12/1943 and the Fw 190 A-8 to 3/1944 - Gotha delivered 10 Bf 110 G-4/R7 in December 1943 and the first Fw 190 A-8 were taken over in March 1944 (again using data presented at luftwaffe.no)

< Message edited by Denniss -- 9/28/2009 9:31:37 PM >

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RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/1/2009 9:52:53 AM

Thales99

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Is the starting date for the Ju 388J mentioned above really 3/44 - or is it a typo and should read 3/45? The few sources I read mention that preparations for serial production of the Ju 388J were still gearing up at the end of the war.

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Post #: 13

RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/1/2009 2:19:11 PM

Hard Sarge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thales

Is the starting date for the Ju 388J mentioned above really 3/44 - or is it a typo and should read 3/45? The few sources I read mention that preparations for serial production of the Ju 388J were still gearing up at the end of the war.

correct, looks like a mixed up date, is 3/45 now

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Post #: 14

RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/1/2009 2:26:04 PM

Hard Sarge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Most books have the designation of the Ho IX (company designation)/8-229 (RLM project designation)/Ho 229 (RLM aicraft designation) wrong. In fact it would have been the Ho 229 as designer designation - just like the Ta 152 (was built by Focke-Wulf but designed by Kurt Tank's team). Gotha was basically only a production facility selected for the Ho 229.

maybe you should buy better books

Regarding the He 219 production you might want to visit http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/RLM/RLM44.html - up to and including March 1944 there were 65 He 219 A-0 produced and taken over by the Luftwaffe. And another note - they were listed as production version and not in the V-Serie (Test aircraft and prototypes).
There are some excerpts from a Heinkel factory document cited in some web forums stating 104 A-0 produced (some of them with A-2 engines) and 85 A-2 built up to and including November 1944. Several hundred A-7 were on order then with delivery to start in December 1944. No A-5 mentioned at all. (Milit�rarchiv Freiburg (BA/MA RL 3/1024 Flugzeug-Programm 227 Ausgabe 1, 9. Januar 1945))

On 11 july 1944, RLM sent a priority telegram to Schwechat to accelerate the replacement of the He 219 A-2 to the A-5, the first 5 A-2 which were produced in Vienna had been completed in Sept 1943, and since then there had been continuous problems with the fuel delivery system, which had been reworked in the A-5

A-0's were still being lost in 45, my book stats 110 A-0s produced
BTW - if you want to keep the aircraft arrival dates historic then shift the Bf 110 G-4/R7 to 12/1943 and the Fw 190 A-8 to 3/1944 - Gotha delivered 10 Bf 110 G-4/R7 in December 1943 and the first Fw 190 A-8 were taken over in March 1944 (again using data presented at luftwaffe.no)

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RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/1/2009 4:59:40 PM

Nemo121

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Can we invest research into the He-219 A0 and Me-262A0 types or are those not player-buildable? I seem to remember something abotu them not being available to players to build.

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RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/2/2009 7:40:15 AM

TechSgt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Winfield S. Hancock

Hard Sarge,

I was going through the files in the DAT folder last night looking to see if the data for the aircraft were all in one place so I could make myself a handy reference guide and do some planning. I could not manage to open the .dat files at all and find anything readable, but did notice that there was a BOB excel spreadsheet.

I excitedly opened it up, to see that it had precisely the kind of data i was looking for -- plane model, speed, cruise, ceiling, climb, mvr, etc, and it even had the Best altitude for operation marked.

Then, I was disappointed to see that the data was only there for six planes, Hurricane I, II, and III and Spitfire IA, IIA, and IB.

No other planes were included.

Is this data found somewhere else, or could it be posted in a spreadsheet or other printable form for reference during the game? Dont get me wrong, the in game reference is a nice tool, but you can only see detail on one plane at a time, and I like hard copes of stuff as I am old school.

General;

You may want to check here.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2255748&mpage=1&#

da Baron did good!

TS

(in reply to tbriert)

Post #: 17

RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/2/2009 3:44:38 PM

Hard Sarge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Can we invest research into the He-219 A0 and Me-262A0 types or are those not player-buildable? I seem to remember something abotu them not being available to players to build.

no, those are preproduction models, you will get some, for combat testing, you have to wait for the production model to be ready

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Post #: 18

RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/2/2009 4:21:56 PM

Toby42

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I guess that I must be missing something. Where in the world do you find anything on production and upgrades? Reference to a page in the manual would be OK. Then I can read it for myself and see if I can understand it!!!

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Post #: 19

RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/2/2009 5:45:31 PM

joliverlay

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I can't find it in the e-manual. Where is it hidden?

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RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/2/2009 6:49:38 PM

Toby42

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joliverlay

I can't find it in the e-manual. Where is it hidden?

I found it, but boy is it buried! I'm not sure if there is a shortcut to find this or not. I'm not even sure that I could get back to it easily. You can change what is produced and you can change the type of aircraft that is in a squadron if you have enough replacements available. Production starts out being controlled by the copmputer and that's probably where I'll let it stay! About the only thing that I may do is swap out planes in a unit.... I can't find anything in the manual about this and I've went through it several times???

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Post #: 21

RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/2/2009 7:04:17 PM

Hard Sarge

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not sure, what do you need to know ?

changing plane types ?

go to a plane unit (list Air units)

click on the button on the side of the plane unit, top of screen with have a show detail button, click on that, that brings up the unit detail page

on the bottom of the page, is somethings you can do, move the unit, change the plane type, look at the pilot screen, look at the Honor rolls

click change plane type and it will bring up a screen that shows the planes you have in stock that you can change the unit over to

or am I misunderstanding you ????

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RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/2/2009 7:14:50 PM

Toby42

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

not sure, what do you need to know ?

changing plane types ?

go to a plane unit (list Air units)

click on the button on the side of the plane unit, top of screen with have a show detail button, click on that, that brings up the unit detail page

on the bottom of the page, is somethings you can do, move the unit, change the plane type, look at the pilot screen, look at the Honor rolls

click change plane type and it will bring up a screen that shows the planes you have in stock that you can change the unit over to

or am I misunderstanding you ????

I'm probably misunderstanding myself. What you described is about as far as I will get into production. I did find buried somewhere that you can change a factories production of certain plane types, I think??

I couldn't find anything in the manual on this feature(s). Sometimes I can't see the trees because of the Woods...

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Post #: 23

RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/2/2009 7:36:48 PM

Hard Sarge

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in the forum on Axis Production, i posted a number of screen shots showing how to do the Aircraft production changes ?

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Post #: 24

RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/2/2009 7:43:21 PM

Toby42

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

in the forum on Axis Production, i posted a number of screen shots showing how to do the Aircraft production changes ?

Thanks Sarge. Is any of this documented in the Manual? If it is, I sure couldn't find it!!

How is the weather in Ohio? We left there in 1997 and moved to the sunshine state. I sometimes miss the snow, but then my wife smacks me and brings me back to reality

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Post #: 25

RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/2/2009 8:25:51 PM

Richard III

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Probably shoud start a new thread but then useful answers get spread all over and lost in time.

Question is if the game take alt. into consideration during the combat turn, should flying the B-17G`s at max alt. un-escorted result in fewer losses ? So far I haven`t seen this to be true.

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Post #: 26

RE: Additional aircraft info - 10/3/2009 6:05:34 AM

Hard Sarge

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that is tricky

the 109 is not going to be as good at 27 K as it at 18 K, but it is going to be better then a 190 at the same Alts

now that being said, if it gets off an attack, the attack run is still going to be the same (the bombers MVR is so much worse then a fighter, that the different is not that noticable)

also, you go the BG, a BG in a nice tight formation is going to be HARD to attack, one that has taken some losses, , so damaged or is breaking up due to pressure, is going to be much easier to attack and hurt, you may see, out of a raid, most of the losses seem to come from only a couple of units, those are from units that had there formations broken up

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Post #: 27

RE: Additional aircraft info - 11/2/2009 8:35:16 AM

TechSgt

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Hard_Sarge;

I downloaded Baron's spreadsheet and have been adding availibilty dates, replacement rates, etc.

For the altitude mods I figure you added four bands, low, medium, high, very high with a -2, -1, 0, +1, +2 mod for each band being possible.
NO! I'm not asking for the exact number.

But, this thought crossed my mind.

Since we now have altitude bands, and the pilots know what altitude they operate best at... and, mission assignments... and...

During the turn engaged aircraft lose altitude, but after the engagment, *** planes are not returning to operating altitude. ***
I'm not talking about planes returning to base, but long-range Allied fighters continuing to provide escort.

Shouldn't this be looked into?

The operating altitude is set during plotting or interception. So, an "unengaged" plane would check for a difference and begin climbing, at climb rate, back to its assigned operating altitude.

Also, units would attempt to reform after engagements. But, that is for another thread

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Post #: 28

RE: Additional aircraft info - 11/2/2009 12:10:12 PM

Hard Sarge

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they should be climbing back up ?

it should depend on what is going on around them

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Post #: 29

RE: Additional aircraft info - 11/2/2009 1:33:51 PM

Hard Sarge

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from this screen shot (I looking for something else, but...)

look at the planes for 611, the added in box is 3 minutes later, combat has ended

those look to be trying to climb back up to alt

(one stack of 3 could be either)

not sure what the 124 is holding place, but...

the rest look to be trying to regain alt