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December 8 Scenario - 9/25/2009 7:06:28 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		For those of you playing the 12/08/41 scenarios, we have found a way to include the Arizona and Oklahoma in the sunk ship list, and allocate victory points for them. This is just for the ships. It is not for the planes, or anything else.

For patch-2, Arizona and Oklahoma will appear at turn start, but will have 98-99 damage for all fields, including fires. They are guaranteed to sink during turn execution, no matter what you do, so you will get the listing and the points.

Another tweak for patch-2 is that plane sorties, torp sorties and fuel for the KB have been arbitrarily depleted.

Think the 12/08/41 scenarios are going to look pretty sweet for them as don't want to play the 'how many BBs or planes did I lose - and would it be real' psycho historico babbelo lunacio stuffacicato things.

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RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/25/2009 7:14:43 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3141
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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Thanks,

Rasmus

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RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/25/2009 7:16:06 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		John I know this is slightly off topic, but will the decrease in KB fuel be applied to the Dec 7 aka scenario 1?

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Post #: 3
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/25/2009 7:52:45 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Where is Force Z on Dec 8th? Steaming toward it's date with destiny still?

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RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/25/2009 7:54:21 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		It is as that now, but u can change their orders before they move aka save em.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

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Post #: 5
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/25/2009 7:59:27 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
John I know this is slightly off topic, but will the decrease in KB fuel be applied to the Dec 7 aka scenario 1?

Unfortunately, no. Sigh ... there's a bit of a hierarchical structure going on. Scen001 is THE scenario; any tweaks to scen001 requires my winkie laid out on the table with Joe and Erik wielding cleavers, to whack it off, if it ain't good. This is the serious Matrix scen, and I ain't gonna put Mr Willie on Mr Table unless I am guaranteed imortality.

'Kay, scen002 is an AndyMac specific Jap enhancement, that's supported by the scen001 class files. Andy's a bud and we break out balls making it happen for him. But Mr Willie doesn't have to go on Mr Table.

Scens 003, 4 and 5, belong to Joe, Nik and Terminus. They rule.

Scen006 is my only baby. It's based on scen001, so I can't get too innovative, but with respect to what I can do, I'll do what I can.

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RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/25/2009 8:03:17 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Thanks.


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Post #: 7
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/25/2009 8:07:19 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		What's scenario 6, John?

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RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/25/2009 8:18:20 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		It's the "Keep Mr. Willie in your pants" scenario.  

(December 8th start, based on Scenario 1 )

< Message edited by USS America -- 9/25/2009 8:20:41 PM >

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RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/25/2009 9:58:47 PM   
Marty A

 

Posts: 213
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline 		Why not add points to tokyo for ships and planes like other game? witp december 8 has 600 more points for japan control of tokyo than in december 7 game. seems easier than fooling around with ships sinking and things.

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Post #: 10
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/25/2009 11:28:36 PM   
Veer


Posts: 2231
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Excuse me
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quote:

wWhy not add points to tokyo for ships and planes like other game? witp december 8 has 600 more points for japan control of tokyo than in december 7 game. seems easier than fooling around with ships sinking and things.


Because this is what they want:

quote:

we have found a way to include the Arizona and Oklahoma in the sunk ship list


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Post #: 11
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 12:34:14 AM   
Marty A

 

Posts: 213
Joined: 8/7/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veer

quote:

wWhy not add points to tokyo for ships and planes like other game? witp december 8 has 600 more points for japan control of tokyo than in december 7 game. seems easier than fooling around with ships sinking and things.


Because this is what they want:

quote:

we have found a way to include the Arizona and Oklahoma in the sunk ship list



And this is what they leave out by want instead of doing smart:

quote:

This is just for the ships. It is not for the planes, or anything else.

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Post #: 12
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 12:53:09 AM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marty A

Why not add points to tokyo for ships and planes like other game? witp december 8 has 600 more points for japan control of tokyo than in december 7 game. seems easier than fooling around with ships sinking and things.

Well pardon the hell out of me for trying, when there's trash mouth idiots out there that know so much better. Thanks to you, nothing will be done, unless I get a code block saying how it is to be done. Everyone keeps saying how easy it is, and how stupid we are, so here's your chance. Have a nice day.

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Post #: 13
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 2:47:10 AM   
Mark VII


Posts: 1838
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Brentwood,TN
Status: offline 		Nevermind "Marty A"!!!

I think these are great little tweaks especially the KB sorties. Its funny, a couple of days ago was looking at the killed ship list and thought that it was to bad that my Jap opponent was missing out on those VP's from Arizona and Oklahoma.

Keep up the good work.............terry


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

For those of you playing the 12/08/41 scenarios, we have found a way to include the Arizona and Oklahoma in the sunk ship list, and allocate victory points for them. This is just for the ships. It is not for the planes, or anything else.

For patch-2, Arizona and Oklahoma will appear at turn start, but will have 98-99 damage for all fields, including fires. They are guaranteed to sink during turn execution, no matter what you do, so you will get the listing and the points.

Another tweak for patch-2 is that plane sorties, torp sorties and fuel for the KB have been arbitrarily depleted.

Think the 12/08/41 scenarios are going to look pretty sweet for them as don't want to play the 'how many BBs or planes did I lose - and would it be real' psycho historico babbelo lunacio stuffacicato things.



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Post #: 14
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 3:21:01 AM   
stuman


Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

It's the "Keep Mr. Willie in your pants" scenario.  

(December 8th start, based on Scenario 1 )


" It's the 'Keep Mr. Willie in your pants' scenario. "


Boy have I heard that before .

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Post #: 15
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 4:45:12 AM   
Marty A

 

Posts: 213
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marty A

Why not add points to tokyo for ships and planes like other game? witp december 8 has 600 more points for japan control of tokyo than in december 7 game. seems easier than fooling around with ships sinking and things.

Well pardon the hell out of me for trying, when there's trash mouth idiots out there that know so much better. Thanks to you, nothing will be done, unless I get a code block saying how it is to be done. Everyone keeps saying how easy it is, and how stupid we are, so here's your chance. Have a nice day.


This is name calling no? you are a dev yes? mod punish devs for name calling? doubt so. i say what witp do. game out of box. if that bad why is it out of box that way? why you try to make better and not do so. i say simple to make like old game you call me names. only your think mean something every one that does not think like you is bad people. i pity them that work with you.

< Message edited by Marty A -- 9/26/2009 4:49:58 AM >

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Post #: 16
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 4:51:27 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
Marty, with your two posts above - John was much kinder than you deserve.

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Post #: 17
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 5:04:23 AM   
pmelheck1

 

Posts: 610
Joined: 4/3/2003
From: Alabama
Status: offline 		I must say I'm very happy about the ships sinking.  To me these were some of the first losses of the war and I always looked for them and it irked me that they were missing as they WERE sunk during the attack.  As an allied player i'm not so much concerned with the points as their inclusion as ships that were lost during the war.

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RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 6:27:01 AM   
Marty A

 

Posts: 213
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


Marty, with your two posts above - John was much kinder than you deserve.


Maybe yes maybe no on point of view. no excuse for name calling in anyway. all i say is old game add 600 to tokyo and this makes up for december 7 losses and he calls me names because his think only account for 2 ships sink. no excuse for anyone name calling on this maybe more for dev no? dev think should be open to new ideas no? is his? seems not to me.

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Post #: 19
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 6:33:32 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


Marty, with your two posts above - John was much kinder than you deserve.


quote:

This is name calling no? you are a dev yes? mod punish devs for name calling? doubt so. i say what witp do. game out of box. if that bad why is it out of box that way? why you try to make better and not do so. i say simple to make like old game you call me names. only your think mean something every one that does not think like you is bad people. i pity them that work with you.


While I basically agree with witpqs, I also think that the quote above pretty much proves that "Marty" is not a native English speaker. What he said that caused John offense may not have been what he was trying to say, or meant to say. However the tirade above has pretty much ended any chance of anyone ever taking anything he says seriously again...

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Post #: 20
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 7:35:22 AM   
Marty A

 

Posts: 213
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline 		I see devs say anything they want and no mod say anything. i see other say less and get punished. i try to make point that jwe think he is smarter than rest of people and only his think counts. i not say no one can think different than me. different thinks is good if both hear others think. i say jwe calling names and not hear my think is wrong. maybe not say it good in way. i see some wrong with the game that could be made better if thinks heard. not mean just my thinks but every peoples. devs do not listen to other thinks only ones that seem to matter to devs is other devs thinks as i see. time for dev thinks over when game sold. devs need to open their thinks to others and hear what they say. maybe good maybe not good but listen and hear the think. other thinks maybe not so bad if they let ego go away and hear others.

< Message edited by Marty A -- 9/26/2009 7:38:23 AM >

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RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 9:38:22 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marty A

I see devs say anything they want and no mod say anything. i see other say less and get punished. i try to make point that jwe think he is smarter than rest of people and only his think counts. i not say no one can think different than me. different thinks is good if both hear others think. i say jwe calling names and not hear my think is wrong. maybe not say it good in way. i see some wrong with the game that could be made better if thinks heard. not mean just my thinks but every peoples. devs do not listen to other thinks only ones that seem to matter to devs is other devs thinks as i see. time for dev thinks over when game sold. devs need to open their thinks to others and hear what they say. maybe good maybe not good but listen and hear the think. other thinks maybe not so bad if they let ego go away and hear others.


JWE is dev and Scen 6 is his. This means, that only his thinking counts, when it comes to this official scenario.

If you'd be nice to him, he might consider your opinion, but in the end, his word is law about Scen6. If you have problem with that, tough.

You can always copy the scenario 6 to different slot and open editor. Modify your hearts content if you think something is wrong.

Just friendly advice, do not suggest that things like that are easy to do. I did myself lot of testing for my own ideas to modify the game (WitP), mainly around submarine air search radars. This was my minor contribution to CHS mod and I am happy to see, that AE has those devices properly depicted.

Creating test scenario based on WitP tutorial took me about 30 minutes. Changing values in editor took me about 5 minutes each time. Testing what those changes did took usually 5 days to get statistically reasonable results. For each change.

So, I understand that JWE may be bit testy when you tell him that something is "easy to do". It bloody well is not easy. Point value adjustment for Tokyo might, for example, have arbitrary effect on AI. Which would need running loads of test games for full campaign to be sure not to accidentally break something. In game as complex as this, "flutter of butterfly wings in Ledo can cause earthquake in San Francisco".

I have been there, done that..and thus I do not mod AE yet. I know it's not easy, I lack time, I lack commitment needed and I still not understand the mechanics of AE well enough.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 9/26/2009 9:45:49 AM >

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RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 11:06:11 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marty A

I see devs say anything they want and no mod say anything. i see other say less and get punished. i try to make point that jwe think he is smarter than rest of people and only his think counts. i not say no one can think different than me. different thinks is good if both hear others think. i say jwe calling names and not hear my think is wrong. maybe not say it good in way. i see some wrong with the game that could be made better if thinks heard. not mean just my thinks but every peoples. devs do not listen to other thinks only ones that seem to matter to devs is other devs thinks as i see. time for dev thinks over when game sold. devs need to open their thinks to others and hear what they say. maybe good maybe not good but listen and hear the think. other thinks maybe not so bad if they let ego go away and hear others.



JWE and other developers have given years of their lives to the creation of AE. You've been playing it for a month. The "ego trip" is you telling them what they did wrong. If you have a suggestion, by all means mention it. Just remember that it's quite likely to have been considered and rejected during developement long before you ever saw the game.

That doesn't automatically make your point invalid, but it does mean that you need to make your case clearly, respectfully, and with support. And "I think" is not "support"! The Dev's have greatly simplified "Mod" creation so that you can build your own "I think" scenarios. If you want to get changes in official scenarios or portions of the game's design you need to present verifiable examples of historical facts to support your position, not just "I think you are wrong."

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Post #: 23
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 4:39:57 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marty A

I see devs say anything they want and no mod say anything. i see other say less and get punished. i try to make point that jwe think he is smarter than rest of people and only his think counts. i not say no one can think different than me. different thinks is good if both hear others think. i say jwe calling names and not hear my think is wrong. maybe not say it good in way. i see some wrong with the game that could be made better if thinks heard. not mean just my thinks but every peoples. devs do not listen to other thinks only ones that seem to matter to devs is other devs thinks as i see. time for dev thinks over when game sold. devs need to open their thinks to others and hear what they say. maybe good maybe not good but listen and hear the think. other thinks maybe not so bad if they let ego go away and hear others.


Well I think this is false because it is not what you did. You said:

quote:

And this is what they leave out by want instead of doing smart:

quote:

quote:

This is just for the ships. It is not for the planes, or anything else.



Basically, 'doing what they want instead of doing smart things.' You chose to denigrate the efforts of JWE and the other developers. Now you falsely claim the devs do not listen except to other devs.

This might come as a shock to you, but being genuinely open minded and listening to someone does not mean that one must agree with them and do what they want.

BTW, the reason they are making this scenario change for ships only and not for planes, etc. is that they found a way to make the change for ships, but the code does not support making the change for planes, etc. The effort to modify the code for it is large compared to a virtually meaningless benefit for players.

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Post #: 24
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/26/2009 5:46:33 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marty A

I see devs say anything they want and no mod say anything. i see other say less and get punished. i try to make point that jwe think he is smarter than rest of people and only his think counts. i not say no one can think different than me. different thinks is good if both hear others think. i say jwe calling names and not hear my think is wrong. maybe not say it good in way. i see some wrong with the game that could be made better if thinks heard. not mean just my thinks but every peoples. devs do not listen to other thinks only ones that seem to matter to devs is other devs thinks as i see. time for dev thinks over when game sold. devs need to open their thinks to others and hear what they say. maybe good maybe not good but listen and hear the think. other thinks maybe not so bad if they let ego go away and hear others.


I have found JWE very open to ideas and thoughts. The problem must be yours.

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Post #: 25
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/27/2009 2:27:08 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

For those of you playing the 12/08/41 scenarios, we have found a way to include the Arizona and Oklahoma in the sunk ship list, and allocate victory points for them. This is just for the ships. It is not for the planes, or anything else.

For patch-2, Arizona and Oklahoma will appear at turn start, but will have 98-99 damage for all fields, including fires. They are guaranteed to sink during turn execution, no matter what you do, so you will get the listing and the points.

Another tweak for patch-2 is that plane sorties, torp sorties and fuel for the KB have been arbitrarily depleted.

Think the 12/08/41 scenarios are going to look pretty sweet for them as don't want to play the 'how many BBs or planes did I lose - and would it be real' psycho historico babbelo lunacio stuffacicato things.


JWE. Thanks! This is my favorite scenario and these two tweaks are significant upgrades.

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Post #: 26
RE: December 8 Scenario - 9/27/2009 6:52:55 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace
JWE. Thanks! This is my favorite scenario and these two tweaks are significant upgrades.

Thank you! Much appreciated. This really was a last minute, two weeks before release, addition. Glad it’s working for somebody.

Because the scenario was a last minute slash-and-burn, there’s some places where it could be tweaked; watched the threads on KB fuel and such, and stuck that in. Tweaked the ‘remaining sorties’, but recognized that Hiryu/Soryu didn’t put that many torp armed Kates out there, so it’s still reasonable to split them out and have them go after Wake, if ya want – that sort of stuff.

I really like this scenario. It’s become my basis, too. Am always willing to make it better and better. Trying my best to incorporate ya'lls inputs.

No worries, I can recognize the difference between wet cow flapjacks and real people; I will do my best to make it happen for ya.

Ciao.


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