Only Strafing Runs at 100ft Altitude after Patch?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> Only Strafing Runs at 100ft Altitude after Patch?

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Only Strafing Runs at 100ft Altitude after Patch? - 6/16/2002 8:39:28 AM

wmtiz

Posts: 30
Joined: 6/4/2002
From: Belton, Texas
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After installing the patch and continuing a saved game (Scn#17), I have noticed that when I set a level bomber to Naval Attack and an altitude of 100ft, they no longer execute a skip bombing run, they just strafe the enemy ships. The same thing happens when I set the TBDs on the US carriers to 100ft altitude, they will strafe the enemy ships, but will not conduct torpedo runs.

I have tried the bombing runs with B-26s and Hudsons with experience values of 70+ in various weather over the target. From rain to overcast to partly cloudy to clear, they will only strafe the enemy ships, no bombing runs executed. Please note, prior to installing the patch, these same attacks were resulting in bombing runs being executed. One B-26 squadron located at Gili Gili had become quite successful is getting hits with this tactic.

I can live with the flak losses as long as the bomb runs are fruitfull, but cannot continue with the flak losses at 100ft if all the planes are going to do is strafe.

_____________________________

Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious -- Sun Tzu

Post #: 1

- 6/16/2002 9:55:59 AM

Slaughtermeyer

Posts: 156
Joined: 5/10/2002
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Maybe this has something to do with my report that historically skip-bombing was not done until early 1943. The Allies did not start skip-bombing training until Dec. 1942.

(in reply to wmtiz)

Post #: 2

Strafing / Skip Bombing - 6/16/2002 10:36:00 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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I'm not aware that any changes were made to skip bombing capabilities. How many days have you run under the new patch to make sure these weren't just unusual results?

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to wmtiz)

Post #: 3

Strafing Runs only at 100ft - 6/16/2002 10:36:16 AM

wmtiz

Posts: 30
Joined: 6/4/2002
From: Belton, Texas
Status: offline

I could buy that for the level bombers except they were conducting some sort of bomb runs when attacking at 100ft [U]prior[/U] to the patch installation, but this should have no effect on a torpedo bomber (TBD, Beaufort, etc) they should try to execute a torpedo attack whether their initial alt is 100ft or 1000ft.

My point I was trying to get across is that level bombers and torpedo planes were making their normal attack runs at 100ft alt [B]PRIOR[/B] to the patch installation. After the patch, they only strafe at 100ft alt.

I have suspended play after an air strike from the Enterprise and Hornet caught a large Japanese surface force cold near Lunga and all the TBDs did was strafe instead of making a torpedo attack. This attack was made from a distance of only two hexes, well within the normal combat radius for the short-legged TBD. Needless to say, a machine gun attack by the TBDs was far less effective than a torpedo attack would have been on a surface force that had no friendly CAP from their CVs or LBA.

_____________________________

Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious -- Sun Tzu

(in reply to wmtiz)

Post #: 4

Strafing Runs Only at 100ft - 6/16/2002 10:55:42 AM

wmtiz

Posts: 30
Joined: 6/4/2002
From: Belton, Texas
Status: offline

Erik,
You guys are certainly on top of these items from the players of UV. Great job! This is a welcome change from some of the previous games I have played where the support from the designers was non-existant.

To the issue, please let me clarify. Whether or not the level bombers were conducting actual Skip-Bombing runs is somewhat subjective. However, prior to the patch installation, the level bombers, B26s, Hudsons et al, were generally set to conduct their attacks from a height of 100ft by me when their mission was set to Naval Attack. I had experimented and found that as their experience rose above say 60+, they were more effective at getting hits on naval targets at 100ft than say 5000ft or even 1000ft. When attacking Ground Forces or Ports/Airfields, I generally set the alt to 1000ft.

Prior to the patch installation, I would see my B26s from Gili Gili or PM fly out and attack Japanese surface forces and they would make bombing runs from their 100ft alt. They were never observed to strafe a naval target, only bomb. Since the patch installation, all they do is strafe regardless of weather conditions over the target enemy ships. They do not conduct a bomb run at all.

I have also been running with my carrier TBDs set to attack at 100ft alt which is nominal for a torpedo run. Prior to the patch install, thet TBDs would fly in and make their attack run with their torpedoes. Since the patch installation, the only thing the TBDs have done at 100ft is strafe the Jap ships.

After watching two consecutive airstrikes from the Enterprise and Hornet catch a Jap surface force outside their LBA and carrier CAP, in clear weather, and all the TBDs did was strafe instead of make torpedo runs I had to stop and raise a flag here on the forums about it.

I do not know if this is a by-product of introducing the patch to a game already in progress or something different. All I know for certain is that I did not make any changes to how I am planning/conducting air strikes since the patch install and the actions of the level bombers and torpedo bombers attacking from an alt 100ft is the only thing I can see that is different.

The patch was installed and approx 1 game week has gone by. Early June 42 to mid June 42. When I installed the patch, the Enterprise and Hornet when en route to Noumea and about 7 days out. It was their attack on the Jap surface force near Lunga about three days after their arrival in Noumea that I referenced above. The level bombers have been B26s and Hudsons flying out of Gili Gili.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you need a save game file of more info. Thanks again for all the support and time.

_____________________________

Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious -- Sun Tzu

(in reply to wmtiz)

Post #: 5

Testing... - 6/16/2002 10:57:28 AM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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The problem is that if we are to pin this down and find out if it's actually a problem, we'll need you to keep trying it out. I have seen torpedo and bomb attacks from low level during patch testing, though I can't say with 100% certainty that nothing could have broken in the last few builds. Perhaps if you save to another slot so your main game won't suffer any ill effects?

I have seen Torpedo Bomber attacks come in from other altitudes where not a single torpedo even hit the Japanese. At a mandated 100 foot altitude, this could still happen but they would also strafe even if they missed. Could this be what you are seeing? Have you heard any of the torpedo attack "splash" sounds during the animation?

-- Edited and added: I just saw your third post, thanks greatly for all the additional info. Yes, if you have a save that has skip-bomb capable squadrons and a carrier battle all set up, that would definitely save some time. At this point, I'll see what I can set up and check into it. If you have such a save, please zip it and send it to [email]erikr@matrixgames.com[/email].

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to wmtiz)

Post #: 6

Testing - 6/16/2002 11:34:52 AM

wmtiz

Posts: 30
Joined: 6/4/2002
From: Belton, Texas
Status: offline

Erik,
Save game file on the way.

_____________________________

Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious -- Sun Tzu

(in reply to wmtiz)

Post #: 7

Re: Testing - 6/16/2002 10:18:15 PM

Mike Wood

Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline

Hello...

The code change was:

If group mission = SWEEP and altitude < 200 feet do not not strafe.

The tests for groups with BOMB or TORPEDO mission was not changed. Only fighters, night fighters and fighter-bombers can be given strafe missions.

Hope this Helps...

Michael Wood

(in reply to wmtiz)

Post #: 8

Testing - 6/16/2002 10:46:07 PM

wmtiz

Posts: 30
Joined: 6/4/2002
From: Belton, Texas
Status: offline

Mike,
Thanks for helping out with the code changes info. However, in these issues, none of the attacking planes were given the Sweep mission, they were all set to Naval Attack. Per Erik's suggestion, I went back to the saved game and replayed the combats and there was no "splashing" sound to indicate the TBDs had dropped torpedoes, they just came in and strafed the Japanese cruisers and destroyers. When I quit out and replayed the save game after changing the TBD altitude to 1000ft and letting the combat happen again, the TBDs did drop torpedoes, confirmed by the splash sound effect and seeing a couple of hits by torpedoes on a cruiser.

I have emailed the zipped save to Erik.

_____________________________

Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious -- Sun Tzu

(in reply to wmtiz)

Post #: 9

Re: Re: Testing - 6/16/2002 11:01:33 PM

Slaughtermeyer

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Joined: 5/10/2002
From: Pennsylvania
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike Wood
[B] Only fighters, night fighters and fighter-bombers can be given strafe missions.

Hope this Helps...

Michael Wood [/B][/QUOTE]

I did a hotseat test in the Feb '43 campaign, I ordered all of the level bombers in Port Moresby to attack the airfield at Rabaul at 100 ft., they did indeed strafe and that was all they did, no bombing. I then ordered the level bombers to attack a vacant airfield at 100 ft. and the program crashed after reporting a belt armor hit from strafing.

(in reply to wmtiz)

Post #: 10

Re: Re: Re: Testing - 6/16/2002 11:13:59 PM

wmtiz

Posts: 30
Joined: 6/4/2002
From: Belton, Texas
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Slaughtermeyer
[B]

I did a hotseat test in the Feb '43 campaign, I ordered all of the level bombers in Port Moresby to attack the airfield at Rabaul at 100 ft., they did indeed strafe and that was all they did, no bombing. I then ordered the level bombers to attack a vacant airfield at 100 ft. and the program crashed after reporting a belt armor hit from strafing. [/B][/QUOTE]

Was this a game that was already in progress prior to the patch being installed or was this a new scenario started after the patch installation?

I was not having any problems getting bombers and torpedo planes to carryout bomb and torpedo runs respectively at 100ft altitude before applying the patch to a savegame of Scn#17. After the patch, all I get is strafing runs unless I change their attack altitude up to 1000ft.

_____________________________

Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious -- Sun Tzu

(in reply to wmtiz)

Post #: 11

patched - 6/17/2002 3:14:58 AM

Slaughtermeyer

Posts: 156
Joined: 5/10/2002
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

new scenario after patch installation

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Post #: 12

- 6/18/2002 1:25:32 AM

Dunedain

Posts: 224
Joined: 4/4/2000
Status: offline

Slaughtermeyer brings up a good point.

Should U.S. bombers even have the option of skip bombing
before 1943? If they did not even start to learn the technique for
skip bombing until Dec. 1942, then they obviously couldn't even try
to skip bomb until Jan. 43, at the earliest.

(in reply to wmtiz)

Post #: 13

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> Only Strafing Runs at 100ft Altitude after Patch?

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