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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Close Combat Series >> Close Combat: The Longest Day >> The War Room >> Tactics and Strategy!

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Tactics and Strategy! - 9/30/2009 2:38:18 PM

Concord

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Western Australia
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Hi Folks! Been playing the Close Combat series for years. A buddy of mine and I play games on a LAN regularly (once a week). We hadn't played Close Combat for a long time, but we recently bought CC TLD and are right back into it. Tense, H2H grand campaigns. A lot of fun...good combination of heart-pounding tactical and bigger-picture strategic. It ain't perfect, but it keeps us fascinated.

I'm starting this thread to talk about various bits and pieces, from the small to the large. Although some of the subjects I want to raise probably deserve their own threads, this is good a place to start as any.

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Game on!

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RE: Tactics and Strategy! - 9/30/2009 2:50:48 PM

Concord

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Western Australia
Status: offline

First thing I want to examine is the Allied attacks. It's one thing to place the pointy hat of shame upon the AI's virtual head, but quite another versus a human opponent! We've only scratched the surface of the campaign so far, but already there are some challanging situations for the Allies. In particular, there's the paras (especially down south in Merville and Pegasus), and the beach landings.

For both, the thing that seems to work the best is a lot of sneaking. This seems to offer the best chance of expanding, gaining information about enemy positions, and not being totally massacred in the process...although that can happen anyway! Nothing else seems to beat this. Eventually (and on maps with good cover), mortaring, suppression fire, laying smoke, and performing assaults come into play, but often the starting positions are way too exposed for such actions. Do you agree?

What about the beach landings? I'm undecided about bringing in armour. To my thinking, if you are going to bring armour on the beach, you should have at least three, to allow for a loss or two from AT guns. Just one surviving Sherman can tip the scales once the AT guns are gone. But would it be a better idea to have no armour at all on the first beach battle, until you've had a chance to expand a bit, and maybe spot-and-mortar a gun or two?

< Message edited by Concord -- 9/30/2009 2:58:35 PM >

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Post #: 2

RE: Tactics and Strategy! - 10/5/2009 9:37:59 PM

CSO_Talorgan

Posts: 768
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Concord

For both, the thing that seems to work the best is a lot of sneaking. This seems to offer the best chance of expanding, gaining information about enemy positions, and not being totally massacred in the process...although that can happen anyway! Nothing else seems to beat this. Eventually (and on maps with good cover), mortaring, suppression fire, laying smoke, and performing assaults come into play, but often the starting positions are way too exposed for such actions. Do you agree?

Yes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Concord

What about the beach landings? I'm undecided about bringing in armour. To my thinking, if you are going to bring armour on the beach, you should have at least three, to allow for a loss or two from AT guns. Just one surviving Sherman can tip the scales once the AT guns are gone. But would it be a better idea to have no armour at all on the first beach battle, until you've had a chance to expand a bit, and maybe spot-and-mortar a gun or two?

It sounds as if we have similar styles of play because again I agree with you. Infantry-only seems to be the way to establish a bridgehead which armour can be brought in to. This of course is contrary to the tactics actually employed at the time.

Do you (like me) hate taking heavy casualties?

How many casualties per game or per map would you consider acceptible?

Is the "minimum friendly casualty game" the answer to the stupid A.I.? (This question is actually already answered by the vet-mods.)

(in reply to Concord)

Post #: 3

RE: Tactics and Strategy! - 10/6/2009 4:02:08 AM

Concord

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Western Australia
Status: offline

In TLD I'm tending to only bring in armour for a beach landing only if I have plenty of reserves...the Commonwealth forces mainly. Although as I go deeper into the game I've started to realise that some units get extra armour automatically as the campaign progresses.

Yes, I also strive to keep casualties at a minimum (same thing when I play Combat Mission), but the virtual battlefield in Close Combat is so damn lethal. It's so easy to quickly lose a team (or two, or three!). It makes for a very tense environment. Scrambling to correct a situation which is going wrong is not always easy!

The AI is still a challenge to a degree, just because of the lethality of the teams, but the main failing seems to be the big picture. Often, what seems to be a tough map is made much easier by poor placement and orders by the AI. My human LAN opponent does not make those mistakes, which makes progress so much more challenging!

"Vet-mods"? I haven't heard about this before. Is there a reference on this forum? I must do a search at some stage.

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Game on!

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Post #: 4

RE: Tactics and Strategy! - 10/11/2009 3:28:48 PM

CSO_Talorgan

Posts: 768
Joined: 3/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Concord

The AI is still a challenge to a degree

The AI is the main problem with solo play and minimising casualties is the way to restore the challenge.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Concord

"Vet-mods"? I haven't heard about this before. Is there a reference on this forum? I must do a search at some stage.

Veterans mods are a phenomenon throughout the series. Not sure if there are any specifically for tLD. The friendly orbat is cut to the bone, so you either take minimum casualties, or lose.

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Post #: 5

RE: Tactics and Strategy! - 10/14/2009 4:56:44 PM

Concord

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Western Australia
Status: offline

I've done most of my beach landings as the Allies in my ongoing LAN grand campaigns. Except for the first landing, I've brought armour on every time, and it has been of great assistance. I've lost some here and there, but surprisingly light losses. I didn't move my armour around much at all after I set them up. They just fired in support...usually by area firing at muzzle flashes only.

Some of those beaches are really tough for the Allies though, even with armour. German MG's and guns. The all time hardest map has been Pont Du Hoc, scaling the clifftops. Also in the running is Merville and Pegasus! Such difficult tactical starting positions, and no armour support.

My opponent is playing well and making things challenging. His Zugtrupp leaders have been performing extremely well. They repeatedly hold a crucial victory location or building for the entire battle - firing, throwing grenades, and fending off close assaults.

The result so far is that I have been able to consolidate the landing areas by expanding a bit, and cause some significant losses to the light German coastal units. Every gun taken out will make it easier next time (not to mention those schweres MG posts!), and I won't have to start crammed into a tiny bit of beach real estate! Any ideas I entertained of breaking out of a beach map in one battle have been discarded as foolhardy.

I've got 3 battles left as the Allies on the morning of the 6th of June. I'm actually looking forward to playing my turn as the Germans in our dual grand campaigns, so I can relax and take it easy for a change.

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Post #: 6

RE: Tactics and Strategy! - 10/24/2009 3:39:41 AM

Concord

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Western Australia
Status: offline

Ahhh. Half way through my German turn on the 6th of June. Set and forget. How relaxing!

I change some covered arcs here and there, call down some mortar fire...meanwhile my human opponent frantically curses and moans in frustration (one of the added benefits of playing TLD on a LAN in the same room). "Sarge! Team down! We're losing a lot of men!" Sheesh! Sobering to imagine how hellish the real thing must have been, poor guys.

I've placed my AT guns in bunkers at every opportunity where a good LOS exists, and they've proved to be amazingly resilient to everything - small arms, tank fire, and artillery. I've had 50mm AT guns on two maps so far that have endured tank and mortar fire for the whole battle without taking any damage. A Pak 40 in a bunker fired non-stop at tanks for most of a battle until they eventually used up all their AP rounds. They knocked out two tanks on the beach and damaged another. Yikes. I understand my opponent's lamentations...and it will be my turn as the Allies again soon enough, so no gloating.

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Game on!

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Post #: 7

RE: Tactics and Strategy! - 10/24/2009 5:55:39 AM

FeurerKrieg

Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
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My Allied opponent found that firing zooks into bunker was very effective for taking out my AT guns. So once you can get close enough, you can deploy a couple zooks and order them to fire into the bunker, I'd say about half the time they get a kill instantly, then other times, if they can live long enough to get another shot or two they will kill the gun.

In really critical situations, put two zooks firing into the bunker and that gun is almost certainly dead.

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Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

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Post #: 8

RE: Tactics and Strategy! - 6/4/2010 6:21:28 PM

sarjanshah

Posts: 3
Joined: 6/4/2010
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I've been playing CC for years now and the one thing that I've not consciously done is use engineers properly - i.e. use them in a 'special role' - from what I can see and hear they behave like normal infantry ...

Can anyone tell me how to exploit their capabilities (explosives etc.) best? In The Longest Day, for example?

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Sarjan

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Post #: 9

RE: Tactics and Strategy! - 6/4/2010 9:29:07 PM

Andrew Williams

Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
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They do a nice job on AT guns and Half tracks

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Post #: 10

RE: Tactics and Strategy! - 6/4/2010 11:52:44 PM

Southernland

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Joined: 11/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Concord

meanwhile my human opponent frantically curses and moans in frustration (one of the added benefits of playing TLD on a LAN in the same room).

Yeah I can see how that would be a laugh

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Post #: 11

RE: Tactics and Strategy! - 6/7/2010 12:48:54 PM

CSO_Talorgan

Posts: 768
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sarjanshah

Can anyone tell me how to exploit their capabilities (explosives etc.) best? In The Longest Day, for example?

To make use of the explosives you usually just bring them into close proximity with a target, preferably with some cover for the engineers.

Their other use is in minefields. If you crawl them through they'll clear a path.

(in reply to sarjanshah)

Post #: 12