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Manila Falls Early (sigh....) - 10/5/2009 5:05:39 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		2/9/42 to 2/12/42

Jap Victories: The Japanese took Manila on the 9th and Tarakan and Moulmein on the 11th. A remnant Allied unit recaptured Davao on the 9th, too, but that's just a nuisance conquest. As detailed previously, the defense of Manila and Luzon was bungled by the Allied commandrer. A 600 AV defense force holds Bataan, but the Japs should take that in a week or two. The Japs only devoted one division (4th) and a bunch of regiments and tons of artillery to Manila; the city's fall should free up lots of troops. I suppose Miller will send some to Singapore and others to the main DEI region. The Jap force that took an essentially vacant Moulmein appears fairly weak; I think he'll have to bring more to crosss the river successfully.

Allied Carriers: Having accomplished their job in the DEI, the Allied carriers are sailing south and will round Oz and probably make for New Zealand. The Allied high command thinks SoPac will be the next hotly contested region. The Allies badly wish to hold Noumea, Suva, and Pago Pago. Alot of transports are on the way from the United States, but it will take weeks for them to arrive. I did free up the final of the 41st Divison regiments and began loading it on Queen Elizabeth. She'll make a solo, high speed run south from San Diego. The Allies still hold Port Moresby, which I think has thrown Miller off his timetable. He sent a mammoth bombardment TF there on the 10th (BBs Kirishima and Hiei, and CAs Kako, Furutaka, Kinugasa, Aoba, Chikuma, and Tone) and followed with a raid by 25 Betties; yet the defenses held and forts remain three. We hope PM can hold longer delaying Miller's projected probes into SoPac, allowing the Allied carriers and transport troops to get where they need to go.

KB: No sign of it since it departed the Port Moresby area around the 6th. The Mini-KB was near Singkawang on the 10th, but then withdrew north into the South China Sea.

Jap Subs: I-17 got an AK near Brisbane; I-168 got an AK near Dili.

China: The Chinese defenses in the key cities on the MLR are beginning to show improvement. Miller hasn't arrived at any of these MLR cities, with the exception of Changsha, in big numbers yet. He has two divisions at Changsha, but that shouldn't be enough to even try a probing attack against 2,000+ AV behind four forts.

Assessment: Despite the early fall of Manila and big concerns in China, the Allies are satisfied with the handful of stings and speedbumps inflicted in the game to date. Jap troubles invading PM and Tarakan, and the whipping applied by the Allied carriers to the invasion fleet at Tarakan, slowed Jap momentum in the DEI and New Guinea and should force Miller to be more cautious in his advances. This has bought time for the Allies to plan and get underway the troop movements to reinforce the critical SoPac bases. I still need about three more weeks to stiffen up the key bases of Noumea, Suva, and Pago Pago.



< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/5/2009 5:10:17 PM >

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 91
Dividend - 10/6/2009 2:19:03 PM   
Canoerebel


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The KB showed up in the middle of the Timor Sea, unleashing waves of bombers against scattered Allied transports and some combat ships at Darwin, but surprisingly the Allied high command is pleased. This was an immediate payoff on the risky, protracted effort to stir up a hornet's nest in the DEI to buy time elsewhere. I could not be more pleased....

DEI: On the 15th, the KB shows up about 240 miles NW of Darwin. I had no real warning - Miller had employed them at PM, moved them east around Gili Gili, and I assume he then circumnavigated New Guinea's north coast to spring his ambush. He was seeking all the powerful Allied TFs - Enterprise, Lexington, Prince of Wales, Repulse, Houston, Boise, Marblehead, that sailed these waters just a week ago. But the Allied high command suspected this move and moved the big ships well to the south - the combat ships are at Port Headland, Australia, and the carrier TFs off Perth. The Japs did catch a combat TF anchored at Darwin and some ASW TFs near Timor, sinking at least three DDs (Vampire and Vendetta included) and damaging CL Java. Three tankers at Darwin also went under. On the 16th, the KB moved NNW toward Kendari; I figure Miller may sniff around Soerabaja next or cover a Japanese invaision force perhapws heading for Balikpan or one of the other vital bases. (P.S. Moving PoW and Repulse from Koepang, Timor, to SW Australia was a last second - and fortuitous - decision).

SWPac/SoPac: Employment of the KB in the DEI frees the sea lanes from the West Coast to CenPac, SoPac, and SWPac at a propitious moment. These lanes are choked with transports carrying units to Noumea, Suva, and Pago Pago, and, on a smaller scale, to Tahiti, Palmyra, Johnston, and Christmas. In fact, the first transport TFs just arrived at Noumea and Suva, carrying 205th Field Artillery Batallion to the former and a P-39D squadron to the latter. It will take several weeks to get the first big infantry reinforcements in place, but the Allies are optimistic that they now have a bigger window to work with. CVs Yorktown and Saratoga are south of Palmyra escorting one transport convoy, and Hornet is on the way to Panama City from the East Coast. I strongly suspect that Miller has offensive plans in SWPac and SoPac, and by the time he's ready to move the Allies should have six fleet carriers (including CV Indomitable) in the theater.

Port Moresby: Under repeated bombardment by a battleship TF and daily bombings by LBA, the defenses are cracking. PM could fall as soon as the 17th. The lengthy defense here was an effective speed bump.

China: More constriction along the outer perimeter as the Japs advance toward the Chinese MLR. Nanning, Hengchow, Changsha, and Nanyang are cities that must be held. Others, too, but those are four that come to mind immediately.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 92
RE: Dividend - 10/6/2009 2:54:03 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
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From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		What was your garrison at Port Moresby? What did Miller bring? Either you reinforced it, or he didn't bring enough guys.

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Post #: 93
RE: Dividend - 10/6/2009 3:55:21 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		Miller brought 144th Regiment plus part of a construction battalion. The Allies had the organic defense force that starts the game at PM, plus some remnants airlifted in from Rabaul/New Georgia. I think the defensive AV was about 110 with three forts. Not much, but enough to slow Miller.

Q-Ball, I'll be watching your defense of Luzon to see if I can learn something!

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 94
RE: Dividend - 10/6/2009 4:34:34 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		So far it is I that is learning from you. My opponent gave me a break by landing at Legaspi instead of further north, but as soon as the 4th Division finishes unloading at San Fernando, I am sure he is moving.

I need to decide NOW between Manila and Clark. I don't think splitting the defenses works; although in AE those two bases can support each other, in practice the Japs can roll one before the other. In my other PBEM as Japan, I just took Clark pretty easily from from 1/2 of the Luzon forces, forcing them into Bataan. I will now reduce Manila, which should fall easily. The problem is that Clark forces will retire to Bataan it seems, so pretty much I think you have to go all-in to Clark or Manila..........

Which brings it back to..which one? In WITP, I think the answer was Manila by far. Now I'm not sure. I'll have to look at the terrain in Clark, I think it's Rough Jungle, which give more defensive value (x3), than Manila (x2). Aside from that, I think Manila is the more important hex; that's where all the VPs are, and it has a port.

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Post #: 95
RE: Dividend - 10/6/2009 8:01:06 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

So far it is I that is learning from you. My opponent gave me a break by landing at Legaspi instead of further north, but as soon as the 4th Division finishes unloading at San Fernando, I am sure he is moving.

I need to decide NOW between Manila and Clark. I don't think splitting the defenses works; although in AE those two bases can support each other, in practice the Japs can roll one before the other. In my other PBEM as Japan, I just took Clark pretty easily from from 1/2 of the Luzon forces, forcing them into Bataan. I will now reduce Manila, which should fall easily. The problem is that Clark forces will retire to Bataan it seems, so pretty much I think you have to go all-in to Clark or Manila..........

Which brings it back to..which one? In WITP, I think the answer was Manila by far. Now I'm not sure. I'll have to look at the terrain in Clark, I think it's Rough Jungle, which give more defensive value (x3), than Manila (x2). Aside from that, I think Manila is the more important hex; that's where all the VPs are, and it has a port.

Qball,

You may think this gamey, but the non-malaria sword can cut both ways. If malaria is not enacted in your current game (don't know if it will be in patch II or not...), the defensive terrain of Bataan is much more useful than WiTP. No malaria means those guys can hold out much much longer without that detriment. Plus, you get to hold the entrance to Manila via Correigodor, thereby denying him the port facilities in Manila.

Just a thought.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 96
A Few AE Questions/Observations - 10/7/2009 2:13:56 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		1. Damaged Ships - I've held my "Surprise Attack" damaged BBs at Pearl Harbor into mid-February '42. I just sent BB Tennessee toward the West Coast with damage of 24 44 3 0. Just outside Pearl, I recieved a "temporary flotation device failure" message and FLT increased from 44 to 46. I have no idea how serious this is - do I return to Pearl or proceed to the West Coast?

2. Damage Control - In WitP, Allied merchant and combat ships could absorb a great deal of damage, but in AE they appear to have hulls made of paper. One torpedo is almost always sufficient to get any non-combat ship including AKs and TKs. Miller just got two TKs with one TT hit apiece. What gives?

3. Australia - The off-map sea lanes from Capetown make Australia much more secure for the Allies.

4. India/Burma - I don't see any way for the Allies to contest Burma if the Japs want it; the Allied MLR will be Calcutta/Diamond Harbor and other major cities/bad terrain hexes in NE India. This is not a bad thing - it should allow the Allied player to concentrate more troops at these bases and also Madras/Colombo since they won't be required so far to the front.

5. China: Chinese troops in early '42 are absolutely worthless in open terrain unless they happen to be up in a mountainous hex. In forest and plain, they take amazingly disproportionate casualties. Whether they can hold urban hexes with good forts remains to be seen - Miller hasn't tried an attack at Changsha, yet. If the Chinese defenses in Changsha (2600 AV, four forts, urban terrain) isn't effective, then I don't know how I'll hold China.

6. Pacific: The addition of scads of additional bases and potential (dot-hex) bases in the SE corner (Societies and adjacent island groups) spreads out the map so far that it would be tough (impossible?) for the Japs to take a choke-hold on this area as they could in WitP. In WitP, a Jap player who took Papete/Bora Bora could close off that entire section of map to all but blockade runners. The additional bases all over the Pacific should also make the Allied comeback somewhat easier. Even if the Japs take a base and fortify it greatly, there are often many other bases/dot hexes nearby that the Allies could take and build into decent sized airfields.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 97
RE: A Few AE Questions/Observations - 10/7/2009 2:28:04 PM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
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From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		1. I would send her back to PH. I've had an AP (Australian Star) and a DD (Pillsbury) sink because I ignored those messages.

2. I read in a thread during the developmental stage of the game that the damage model was being revamped. IRL a torpedo was often enough for most merchant ships.

3. But it takes longer.

4. Make the MLR Khoima/Imphal and have a mobile reserve at Dacca and Comilla (build it up size 5 AF)

5. Currently pondering the same issue.

6. Would still take time and be under the aerial threat of the bases the Jap has already developed here.


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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 98
RE: A Few AE Questions/Observations - 10/7/2009 2:53:36 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

1. Damaged Ships - I've held my "Surprise Attack" damaged BBs at Pearl Harbor into mid-February '42. I just sent BB Tennessee toward the West Coast with damage of 24 44 3 0. Just outside Pearl, I recieved a "temporary flotation device failure" message and FLT increased from 44 to 46. I have no idea how serious this is - do I return to Pearl or proceed to the West Coast?

2. Damage Control - In WitP, Allied merchant and combat ships could absorb a great deal of damage, but in AE they appear to have hulls made of paper. One torpedo is almost always sufficient to get any non-combat ship including AKs and TKs. Miller just got two TKs with one TT hit apiece. What gives?

3. Australia - The off-map sea lanes from Capetown make Australia much more secure for the Allies.

4. India/Burma - I don't see any way for the Allies to contest Burma if the Japs want it; the Allied MLR will be Calcutta/Diamond Harbor and other major cities/bad terrain hexes in NE India. This is not a bad thing - it should allow the Allied player to concentrate more troops at these bases and also Madras/Colombo since they won't be required so far to the front.

5. China: Chinese troops in early '42 are absolutely worthless in open terrain unless they happen to be up in a mountainous hex. In forest and plain, they take amazingly disproportionate casualties. Whether they can hold urban hexes with good forts remains to be seen - Miller hasn't tried an attack at Changsha, yet. If the Chinese defenses in Changsha (2600 AV, four forts, urban terrain) isn't effective, then I don't know how I'll hold China.

6. Pacific: The addition of scads of additional bases and potential (dot-hex) bases in the SE corner (Societies and adjacent island groups) spreads out the map so far that it would be tough (impossible?) for the Japs to take a choke-hold on this area as they could in WitP. In WitP, a Jap player who took Papete/Bora Bora could close off that entire section of map to all but blockade runners. The additional bases all over the Pacific should also make the Allied comeback somewhat easier. Even if the Japs take a base and fortify it greatly, there are often many other bases/dot hexes nearby that the Allies could take and build into decent sized airfields.


1. If the MAJOR floatation damage is 44 (or 46 now), the ship stands a good chance of sinking en route to CONUS. I'd return to port at PH and get that down below 20.

2. I think enough people complained about titanium triple hulled IJN AKs for the team to reassess the durability of these ships. I'm in favor of the changes. A torpedo hit on a merchant ship was a grave prognosis.

4. Several players have held for a time at Pegu. Not a bad idea to keep the IJ out of the road and rail hexes leading away from Rangoon. The terrain at Pegu necessitates a shock attack (river crossing), so this will require more than a piecemeal commitment by the IJA to enter Burma.

6. The maximum island garrison numbers make the central Pacific picture much more interesting. Now, unlimited capacity islands (e.g., Christmas, Pago Pago, Suva, New Caledonia, etc.) are more important and the myriad smaller capacity islands (e.g., Johnson, Canton, Palmyra) that used to hold more sway are trickier to value and defend accordingly.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 99
RE: A Few AE Questions/Observations - 10/7/2009 3:06:50 PM   
Streptokok

 

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quote:

2. I think enough people complained about titanium triple hulled IJN AKs for the team to reassess the durability of these ships.


I play IJN and I have no idea whatsoever what are you talking about. None, and i repeat NONE, IJN AKs hit by torpedo in my game ever survived trip back to port. Only ship that is still afloat and was hit by a torpedo is Haruna, hardly a AK ship type

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(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 100
RE: A Few AE Questions/Observations - 10/7/2009 5:02:17 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Streptokok

quote:

2. I think enough people complained about titanium triple hulled IJN AKs for the team to reassess the durability of these ships.


I play IJN and I have no idea whatsoever what are you talking about. None, and i repeat NONE, IJN AKs hit by torpedo in my game ever survived trip back to port. Only ship that is still afloat and was hit by a torpedo is Haruna, hardly a AK ship type

Sure, I'll clarify. Sorry I was unclear. For the record, I play both sides and noticed this as well. YMMV.

In WiTP, merchant ships hit by torpedoes (either aerial, sub-launched or ship-launched) displayed an uncanny amount of resilience and would frequently be unimpeded in reaching their goal. The 'rule of thumb' was that it would take 2-3 torpedo hits to sink a merchant AK in WiTP, wholly unrealistic compared to IRL.

In AE, this unrealistic resilience has been dialed down. A torpedo hit is a grave threat to a merchant ship, as IRL.

(in reply to Streptokok)
Post #: 101
RE: A Few AE Questions/Observations - 10/7/2009 5:16:58 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

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Status: offline 		Regarding the Tennessee . . . just anecdotal evidence but I didn't have any problem w/ sending PH BBs back to Seattle w/ 50 major flotation damage as long as the sys damage was at 0. Likewise w/ a BB from Noumea to Sydney w/ 68 major floatation damage and 0 sys damage. Iirc greater crew xp and lesser sys damage means the less likely the "temporary floatation device failure" will occur.

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Post #: 102
Palembang and Wuchow Fall - 10/7/2009 6:35:56 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		2/17/42 to 2/22/42

The Japs are making progress in the DEI and China, but its logistics in SoPac that the Allied player (moi) is watching most carefully right now.

China: The Japs took Wuchow on the 21st; the Allies still hold Kanhsien, but for the most part the Chinese are now backed into a corner. The MLR (north to south) looks like this (base/AV/forts): Sian/1173/3; Loyang/1544/3; Chenchow/770/4; Nanyang/1413/3; Changteh/2732/3; Changsha/2536/5; Hengyang/2202/2; Kweilin/694/3; Liuchow/416/2 and Nanning/351/2. The Japs are applying most of the pressure at Changsha, Nanyang, and Loyang/Chengchow. Jap bombers strike daily, with both sides moving fighters around.

India/Burma: The Japs haven't advanced out of Moulmein, yet. The forward (and temporary) Allied position is at Pegu with 400+ AV and three forts. The next speed bump will be Schwebo. After that the Allies will contest the forested terrain on the Imphal line, but the real bedrocks in the Allied defenses will be Calcutta, Diamond Harbor, Madras, and Columbo. As the Allies solidify things in these areas, attention will turn to Dacca and Chittagong.

Malaya/Singapore: The Japanese are bombing and bombarding daily, but thus far the Allied AV holds steady at about 1100. The Japs began landing at Palembang on the 17th and took the city on the 19th. The Japs are also landing at Billiton (an island NW of Batavia). The Allies have been able to extract remants of the cut-off Malaya troops by using patrol aircraft from Sumatran bases like Medan. These units are hustled west to Sabang where they board troop transports bound for Trincomalee.

DEI: No Jap moves on Java, yet. The recent KB raid saw the Jap carriers head north through the Molucca Straits, thus seemingly leaving SWPac, SoPac, and CenPac free from the KB menace for at least a week or two. Jap subs continue to work this area, sinking a TK near Flores, another near Darwin, and a third near Bali.

Australia/New Guinea: On the 18th, the Japs finally took Port Moresby. The Allies are using patrol aircraft to pull out some of the remnant units. Japs subs have congregated at Sydney and sank two APs on the 21st. ASW patrols haven't been effective. Supply levels in the big cities are excellent, but fuel will be in very short supply in short order. All east coast combat ships have been ordered to Noumea to provide cover there as troop convoys begin to arrive. Boise/Marblehead are stationed at Perth. A smaller combat TF is stationed at Darwin.

Allied Carriers: Lexington and Enterprise just arrived at Adelaide and refueled. Indomitable is a few days behind. Yorktown and Saratoga are providing escort for a big troop transport convoy making for Noumea and will pass south of Pago Pago in a few days. Hornet is just leaving Panama City for Tahiti where it will rendezvous with its escorts. I forgot to permit her to exchange her bi-place Hellcats to SBDs. I hope to have a chance to do that at Sydney soon.

SoPac: Reinforcements have begun arriving at key bases, which currently look like this (base/AV/Port/Airfield/Fort/Supply): Noumea/110/3/3/3/27k; Suva/131/3/3/3/27k; and Pago Pago/228/3/2/3/37k. I inadvertently allowed a convoy carrying 132nd Infantry to begin landing troops at Suva. This unit is bound for Noumea, so I've ordered the convoy to stop unloading (10 AV went ashore) and continue on to Noumea. 34th Infantry will arrive at Noumea in just a few days. Queen Elizabeth with part of 41st Division will make it within four or five days. The bulk of 41st division is no more than ten days away. 223rd Field Artillery just arrived at Pago Pago with tanks on the way. A Marine Raider battalion just unloaded at Christmas with another about to reach Tahiti. At the moment, this is the most exciting aspect of the game for me - getting things in order at these key bases.

With the KB out of the way for the foreseeable future, the only threat to the reinforcement of my key bases would be the appearance of a strong Japanese combat TF. I've ordered a large number of cruisers and destroyers to make for Noumea. The PofW and Repulse TF is on the way from Perth. All American carriers plus CV Indomitable will operate out of Auckland and provide protetction for Noumea and Suva.

CenPac: BB Tennessee's FLT dropped from 46 to 44, so things appear okay and she'll proceed to the West Coast.

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 103
China Cauldron Map - 2/23/42 - 10/7/2009 8:43:00 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		The Chinese MLR as of February 23, 1942 - primary Chinese bases (yellow) on the MLR and direction of primary Japanese advances 9red arrows).




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 104
RE: China Cauldron Map - 2/23/42 - 10/8/2009 3:40:27 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		2/23/42 and 2/24/42

SoPac/SWPac: Queen Elizabeth will arrive at Noumea tomorrow with 100 AV of 41st Division; another transport TF is unloading a regiment there. Several CA/DD TFs will likewise arive tomorrow to provide protection. Within two or three days, the AV at Noumea should exceed 400. Transports carrying the balance of 41st Division, escorted by Yorktown and Saratoga, should arrive in less than a week. CVs Enterprise and Lexington and CVL Hermes just refueled at Melbourne and will remain there a few more days. Australia and NZ will soon be sucked dry of fuel.

DEI: Quiet momentarily. Back-to-back raids by a handful of B-17s from Soerabaja knocked out a total of 2 oil points at Brunei.

Singapore: The Japs are bombarding daily.

Philippines: A Jap deliberate attack at Bataan came off at 1:2, didn't touch three forts, and cost the Japs 1867 to 2537. Bataan may hold another week or maybe even two.

China: 2/3rds of a Jap divison arrived at Changsha bringing the total to 3 and 2/3, with more on the way.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 105
WitP v. AE in Feb. '42 - 10/8/2009 6:17:05 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		Miller and I started a Grand Campaign WitP game three years ago and then began this Grand Campaign (Scenario 2) AE game two months ago. In some ways the games are similar and in others quite different. We're playing two-day turns and the reducation in Jap troop-lift capacity is well known, so that may explain some of the differences. Here are some notable WitP dates/places with AE notations for comparison:

12/7/41: In WitP, Miller doesn't sink a single BB. I have all the damaged BBs to the West Coast by 2/2/42. In AE, Miller sank two BB and badly damaged the rest. As of 2/24/42, just one BB has made the West Coast shipyards, one is in transit, and the rest remain at Pearl.

12/23/41: Miller's first foray into the central DEI is an invasion of Tarakan - likewise in AE, though in that case he invades in late January of '42.

2/5/42: Singapore surrenders (WitP); in AE, Singers is still holding strong as of 2/24/42.

2/7/42: KB raids Ceylon and the Japs invade Trincomalee on the 16th (WitP); in AE, Miller sends the KB to cover an invasion of PM in late January '42. Ceylon and India have been most quiet.

2/24/42: Rangoon falls (WitP); The Allies still hold Rangoon as of this date in AE.

3/25/42: Batavia falls (WitP).

5/27/42: Manila proves a tough nut and Miller eventually commits seven divisions here. The city falls on May 27. In AE, Manila falls on 2/7/42 or thereabouts. What will Miller do with all the extra time and troops?

July 1942: Miller invades Suva, Pago Pago and Canton Island simultaneously. This become a terrible and costly fiasco for him. He eventually takes Suva and Canton, but fails to claim a strongly held Pago Pago. Miller never went after Noumea in the WitP game.

In our current AE game, I've had a strong hunch that Miller will focus on SoPac - Noumea, Suva, and/or Pago Pago. Hence my obsession with reinforcing these base and consolidating the Allied carriers and combat ships in the Auckland area. Miller might surprise me and head for Ceylon, India, Australia, Midway, or the Aleutians, but my money's on SoPac.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 106
RE: WitP v. AE in Feb. '42 - 10/8/2009 6:26:48 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Back-to-back raids by a handful of B-17s from Soerabaja knocked out a total of 2 oil points at Brunei.


The Achilles heel for the Japanese economy in AE is not Oil, but Refineries. I would switch targets.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 107
RE: WitP v. AE in Feb. '42 - 10/8/2009 6:38:48 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

Back-to-back raids by a handful of B-17s from Soerabaja knocked out a total of 2 oil points at Brunei.


The Achilles heel for the Japanese economy in AE is not Oil, but Refineries. I would switch targets.


Michael, I respect your opinion in these matters...are you sure? Japan has excess refinery capacity. Though I suppose it will take awhile to burn through the Oil stocks in Japan to where that truly is a factor.

The other factor is the refineries in Home Islands can be expanded, Oil never can.

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Post #: 108
RE: WitP v. AE in Feb. '42 - 10/8/2009 11:05:26 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		In WITP, your Oil centers produced fuel along with oil on a daily basis. Now in AE, that oil needs to be refined to produce fuel. Your ships and HI need that to run now use fuel. If memory serves me (no laughter in the background allowed ), wasn't there a discussion earlier on about the need to repair refineries outside of Japan vs repairing the oil centers?? The bottleneck was Refineries, not Oil. Correct me, if I'm wrong.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 109
RE: WitP v. AE in Feb. '42 - 10/9/2009 12:01:12 AM   
racndoc


Posts: 2519
Joined: 10/29/2004
From: Newport Coast, California
Status: offline 		At over 48,000 tons it might take a while for Queen Elizabeth to offload 41st Division at Noumea....and it might expose the high value target for too long a period of time. It might be faster to drop off 41st at Sydney and use smaller xAPs or APs for the transfer to Noumea.

< Message edited by AdmSpruance -- 10/9/2009 12:46:15 AM >

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 110
RE: WitP v. AE in Feb. '42 - 10/9/2009 2:25:43 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		You're right, AdmSpruance.  On the turn of her arrival, just 5 AV came ashore.  I've already sent the turn back to my opponent, meaning that she'll remain at Noumea for two more days; but then I'll weigh anchor and head to Auckland.  Another TF is unloading an Army regiment, so the AV at Noumea currently stands at 180 and should exceed 200 by the time I get the next turn back.

P.S.  I know the KB is far, far away in the Philippine Islands, and I have a pretty stout combat TF with four or five CAs and at least six CLs protecting Noumea from surface raids.  Saratoga and Yorktown are just SE of Suva and will soon arrive in the area (with all other CVs on the way to Auckland from Melbourne, with the exception of Hornet, which is heading from Panama City to Tahiti).

(in reply to racndoc)
Post #: 111
Logistics Nightmare - 10/9/2009 3:23:42 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		2/25/42 to 2/28/42

SoPac: Six or eight transport convoys left the West Coast weeks ago and sometimes weeks apart, but it seems that all of them are arriving at Noumea at the same time. Currently, QE with part of 41st Division, two APs with 1st Marine Raiders, and a larger transport TF with an Infantry regiment are trying to unload, with an even larger transport TF about to arrive carrying the balance of 41st Division. No way to clear this logjam. Per AdmSpruance's suggestion, the QE will weigh anchor and make for Auckland to unload the balance of her passengers there. I'm not too concerned about the logjam, though, because the KB is near Ambon and Noumea is protected by a stout combat TF with two carriers about to arrive and a bunch more scheduled to arrive in less than a week.

Allied Carriers: The problem is fuel. Melbourne was sucked dry. Combining Sydney, Auckland and Noumea gives me perhaps 50,000 tons of fuel; enough to handle carrier and fleet operations for a few weeks, but things are getting pretty slim down this way. Another 50,000 tons of fuel awaits in Perth and I have oilers and tankers on the way, but this theater is a long way from anywhere that has a large enough port to permit tankers to operate efficiently. Right now Pago Pago is serving as a fuel dump, as is Christmas Island; I'd like to get Tahiti up and running since it's far to the rear and therefore safer, but it's only level two now and port-building takes time.

KB: The KB sailed SE from the vicinity of Jolo, tangled with four PT boats that didn't do anything except make a good intel report, and finished this period NW of Ambon. Don't know if this is a "look for targets" cruise or providing cover for an invasion fleet. Once again, though, this is a big payoff of the Allied plan to draw full Jap attention this way. The Noumea situation would be a nightmare if I didn't know precisely where the KB is located.

Jap Subs: Back in action all over the place I-7, I-18, and I-19 each get AKs or AKLs north of Pearl; RO-34 misses CL Trenton at Pago Pago; I-154 gets an AK near Flores. Allied ASW has thus far picked off four or five Jap subs during the course of the war, but to this point it seems like 85% of Jap sub attacks are successful, with 95% of the successes resulting in sinking; in contrast, 5% of Allied sub attacks are successful.

Philippines: Back-to-back deliberate attacks at Bataan drop forts from 3 to 1 and result in 3:1 odds; the Japs should take Bataan on March 1.

Sumatra: The Japs aren't doing anything at Singapore except bombing, and Miller's preoocupation with bombing Sinapore has allowed four APs to shuttle back and forth between Trincomalee and Sabang to evacuate British units including most of 8th Indian Brigade, several air HQ, and several base forces.

Reinforcements: The end of February brings alot of units to Oz and NZ and six or eight subs to San Diego. Over the past six weeks, I've gotten most of the infantry units out of SD. They are enroute to various front-line bases or, in some cases, have already arrived.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 112
Finally, the Chinese Stand Firm - 10/9/2009 8:55:47 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		3/1/42 to 3/4/42

Changsha: The Japanese assembled a strong army at Changsha including 6th, 13th, 39th, 40th Divisions, 2/3rds of 3rd Divsion, 12th Mixed Brigade, and 55th Brigade (something more than 2000 AV), and launched deliberate attack on the 4th. The Chinese had about 2,500 AV behind 5 forts and I had changed a few commanding officers. If this attack went badly for the Chinese, I figured there would be no way they could ever stop the Japs. So I held my breath as the attack commenced. To my great relief, it came off at 1:6, didn't touch the forts, and cost the Japs 8,727 to 2,344 for the Chinese. Finally, the Chinese held somewhere! Get them behind fortifications on good terrain and it appears that they can hold their own. I don't know if Miller will continue to send troops here, or pull back and try another vector.

China: Elsewhere, Miller sent two brigades to Nanyang in northern China. This base is held by a stout army (1700 AV behind three forts). Meanwhile, three Chinese corps moved behind the Japs and severed their road/supply connection. A small Jap unit landed at Pakhoi (Miller previously took the unoccpied "French city" on the Chinese coast and unoccupied Wenchow).

Philippines: The Bataan garrison succumbs to a shock attack on the 1st - 29,000 troops are taken prisoner. This leaves the Allies with just a few small garrisons in the Mindanao and Leyte regions.

KB: The KB swept south from the DEI, claiming a lone AKL off Broome, and then moved NW toward Bali. I had several troop TFs moving toward Darwin and had to divert them toward Perth (Q-Ball, these are the troops I considered landing on Timor; but with the Japs giving the area careful attention now I'm going to use them in Australia). I love knowing where the KB is. A Jap CS is sending out Alf patrols off Perth.

Allied Carriers: Every carrier except Hornet is now in the same hex 80 miles south of Noumea. Hornet will arrive at Tahiti in three or four days. With the KB in the DEI, that means the Allies control SoPac.

SoPac: The AV at Noumea stands at 479 with an Aussie brigade on the way and the rest of 41st Division still to land. The AV should eventually climb to 600, which I think is sufficient for now - sufficient to permit the Allies to concentrate on other important bases. Suva's AV stands at 157 and Pago Pago is at 315. Auckland's port just went to level six.

Malaya: Three Jap regiments just attacked aross the river at Pegu, but came up against 400+ AV behind three forts. The resulting 1:2 shock attack failed to touch the forts and cost the Japs 786 to 131. I think Miller will have to reinforce. B-17s from Rangoon scored two refinery hits at Bangkok, but I've since moved them to Calcutta. Imperial Guards just arrived at Singapore. Miller hasn't tried an attack here, yet, but the first should take place soon.

Strategic Situation: With the Jap conquest of Luzon, Miller can concentrate on Singapore and Java; but will he also look elsewhere in the short term? This interval has given the Allies the time needed to really stiffen defenses at Noumea, Suva, and Pago Pago. I will continue these efforts over the next month, for holding these key bases gives the Allies a huge headstart when the time comes to go on the offensive.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/9/2009 8:58:35 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 113
Singapore Falls - 10/11/2009 8:39:39 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		3/5/42 to 3/10/42

The KB continues to patrol the central DEI, providing the Allies with a heck of alot of time to organize things in SoPac, SWPac, and CenPac. Miller may have had some fuel shortages or the Allied activity in the DEI may have him so concerened that he's focuesed here to the detriment of other theaters.

Singapore: Back to back deliberate attacks on the 9th and 10th overcame the defenses at Singapore and 75,000 Allied troops surrendered.

Strategic Implications: This gives Miller his first lead of the game - 10,184 to 8,082. More importantly, he has now completed his conquest of Malaya and Luzon. Java will take some time and troops, but he can begin to contemplate his next major offensive - Ceylon? India? Aleutians? CenPac? SoPac? Australia? In our WitP game it took Miller about two months to put together his big push, which in that case targeted SoPac. I'd say I have at least a month to work with now. Time enough to push in more reinforcements and supplies. Noumea's AV is nearly 700; Suva is 200 with another infantry regiment about to arrive; Pago Pago is 315 and could use another regiment.

KB: The Japanese carriers spent several days at Tarakan, got into a few non-bloody skirmishes with PT boats, and have lately moved south through the Makassar Straits. The Mini-KB moved from the South China Sea to a point north of Soerabaja. Dutch bombers and escorts sortied, failed to score any hits, and lost 28 aircraft to the CAP of 55 Zeros.

Allied Carriers: Retiring to Auckland to rest and refuel. I need to get Lexington and Hornet (the latter just left Tahiti) over to Sydney to upgrade aircraft. Allied carriers will remain in SoPac for now to offer protection to Noumea/Suva. Once the KB departs the DEI, I'll have to make some decisions.

China: A Japanese shock attack at Chengchow came off at 1:2, didn't touch four forts, and cost the Japs 1907 to 836. A shock attack at Yenen came off at 1:2, didn't touch three forts, and cost the Japs 673 to 575. Two isolated Jap brigades near Nanyang fought their way out of an attempted encirclement. As noted often and abundantly, Chinese troops in the open are completely worthless, at least this early in the game.

Subs: Jap subs claimed an AK near Melbourne and two near Canton Island.

Port Size: The developers did a tremendous job thinking through and implementing the new port size restrictions. It has added a challenge to the game, and a fantastic touch of realism, as the Allies struggle to offload troops at small ports and struggle for dock space in major ports like San Diego. Kudos to a feature that helped turn Admiral's Edition into WitP on steroids.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/11/2009 8:47:01 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 114
Supplies - Yipes! - 10/12/2009 11:23:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		3/11/42 to 3/16/42

DEI: The KB continues to patrol the Makassar Straits and the Japs have renewed amphibious operations here - landing (and taking) Balikpan and landing at a number of other bases including Merak and Bintan (the island adjacent to Singapore). B-17 raids against oil refineries at Tarakan were ineffective. Java remains untouched with garrisons of 300+ at Batavia, 300 at Soerabaja, and 280 at Malang. I have considered withdrawing many of the Batavia troops to reinforce Malang, but ultimately I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference. I think I'll remain behind the three forts and force Miller to commit a stout army to take this city.

Philippines: The Japs have started mop-up operations here including a successful invasion of Iloilo.

Sumatra: The Allies continue to evacuate units through Sabang. This operation is nearly finished. 8th Indian Brigade, 75 AV strong, is now at Trincomalee.

India/Burma: The Japs don't have enough to push through Pegu. Miller will have to either bring reinforcement or try and end run. Another CV arrived at Capetown and will make for Colombo.

China: The Japs are making serious progress in the effort to wrest Yenan from the Chinese. Repeated attacks have dropped forts to one. The city should fall tomorrow. Repeated Jap attacks at Chengtow have met with no success, thank goodness, because this is a key city in the Chinese MLR. Recent attacks came off at 1:2, forts 4, costing the Japs 3026 to 4401 (that disparity worried me) followed by 1:3, forts 4, 2,348 to 1,056. Chinese reinforcements are on the way, so I'm optimistic in this area for the short term.

Australia: Quiet. Many American B-26 and figher squadrons have recently arrives. Supply levels look very good here, but fuel is low. ASW got I-24 off Sydney, but not before the sub claimed AM Mildura.

SoPac: Six carriers are in port at Auckland (including an RN CV and CVL) with Hornet to arrive in two days. Several oilers are present - sufficient to permit complete refueling. Some carriers will proceed to Sydney to upgrade aircraft. Noumea looks very good - 700 AV, level four airfield and port, forts at three and rising, 40k+ supplies. RO-34 showed up and was promptly sunk. An infantry regiment shall arrive at Suva in two or three days, bringing the AV to around 300. Pago Pago's AV is 315 with 50k supplies. Jap subs have also nosed around Christmas, Palmyra, and Canton and managed to sink an AKL, TK, DMS, and DD. The Japs took Baker Island on the 13th. The sub activity suggests increased Jap activity in this region soon.

Supplies: I'm concerned about low supplies. Here's the supply/fuel status at my major bases: Seattle (27k/179k), S.F. (101k, 951k), L.A. (64k/232k), S.D. (43k/40k), Sydney (224k/9k), Melbourne (182k/2k), Perth (128k/13k), Capetown (12k/184k), Aden (6k/26k), Abadan (129k/886k), Bombay (215k/104k), Karachi (57k/175k), Colombo (242k/182k), Calcutta (177k/22k). So, India and Australia have plenty of supplies, but Capetown and the USA are barren. In fact, the West Coast is so low that it looks like I'll have to suspend major supply convoys for awhile.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/12/2009 11:25:23 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 115
RE: Supplies - Yipes! - 10/12/2009 11:48:56 PM   
loricas

 

Posts: 217
Joined: 3/29/2008
From: Scandiano(RE), Italy
Status: offline 		supply: WestCoast: have you changed the priority supply setting of SF, LA, SD and seattle?

Cape town\port stanley: depend on arrival of convoys: so you must be carefull to load supply from here, as you keep very low amount between convoys arrival.
TF from UK and or east coast to Cape town if you need more

Aden: the base unit here are sucking supply for nothing: augment the supply priority to have in the base

assuming you have 999999 supply in us east cost:

if you need more somewhere: made a supply TFs from east cost to Panama(balboa): is around the same distance to australia\NZ than WC

and fuel: from Cape town to perth and from perth to melbourne (eventually from abadan to cape town)





< Message edited by loricas -- 10/12/2009 11:51:25 PM >

_____________________________

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Ciao Paolo

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 116
RE: Supplies - Yipes! - 10/13/2009 1:33:45 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Also, eventually you will have to be concerned about keeping enough fuel at Capetown, or else your supply convoys will need sails!

(in reply to loricas)
Post #: 117
RE: Supplies - Yipes! - 10/13/2009 3:58:18 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, gents, for good suggestions. I have been shipping fuel to Capetown for a few weeks now. I hadn't even considered the supply priority situation and will give that my full attention next turn. I am also ashamed to say I hadn't even considerd running supplies from East Coast to Capetown. Good idea. I have about fifteen AKs at Balboa, so I'll send some of them to the East Coast to begin the Capetown convoys.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 118
Jap Artillery - Yipes! - 10/13/2009 6:09:59 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Here's the combat reports for two well-fortified cities in China for the 3/18/42 turn. These illustrate the devastation wrought by Jap artillery against even well entrenched Chinese units. Question: How are the Chinese supposed to stand up to results like these every turn for months or years?

Ground combat at Changsha (82,52) [Note: Five forts]

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 80448 troops, 616 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 2404
Defending force 118193 troops, 669 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2796

Japanese ground losses:
55 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
759 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 17 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 38 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
6th Division
40th Division
39th Division
55th Infantry Brigade
3rd/A Division
12th Ind.Mixed Brigade
13th Division
3rd/B Division
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment

Defending units:
72nd Chinese Corps
58th Chinese Corps
26th Chinese Corps
9th Prov Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Corps
74th Chinese Corps
20th Chinese Corps
73rd Chinese Corps
78th Chinese Corps
21st Chinese Corps
49th Chinese Corps
28th Chinese Corps
10th Chinese Corps
37th Chinese Corps
99th Chinese Corps
29th Group Army
30th Group Army
17th Chinese Base Force
9th War Area
1st Artillery Regiment
19th Group Army
23rd Group Army
3rd War Area
5th Construction Regiment
27th Group Army
22nd Artillery Regiment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Chengchow (88,44) [Note: Four forts]

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 51740 troops, 384 guns, 143 vehicles, Assault Value = 1406
Defending force 75267 troops, 333 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1868

Japanese ground losses:
23 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
393 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 3 (0 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Assaulting units:
59th Infantry Brigade
35th Division
15th Division
3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
32nd Division

Defending units:
93rd Chinese Corps
9th Chinese Corps
13th Chinese Corps
40th Chinese Corps
98th Chinese Corps
69th Chinese Corps
27th Chinese Corps
80th Chinese Corps
5th New Chinese Corps
15th Chinese Corps
48th Chinese Corps
8th New Chinese Corps
7th Construction Regiment
Jingcha War Area
10th Chinese Base Force
1st War Area
24th Group Army
39th Group Army
3rd Construction Regiment

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 119
RE: Jap Artillery - Yipes! - 10/13/2009 6:12:05 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
Looks like all the units are bombarding, not just the artillery.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 120
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