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Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 12:29:19 PM

JudgeDredd

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Playing as Luftwaffe in Eagle Day One week scenario...I'm getting spanked - I have 400 points and the UK has 900+!!

So what did I do wrong?

First off, I'm losing far more planes than the UK...on average twice as much if not 3 times.
Second I think I spent the best part of two days taking out radar
Third I wasn't sure what industries to go for and just plotted raids, not specifically targeting the "big hitters" for points (like capacity 7 targets)
Fourth I don't think I had adequate fighter cover some of the time

So a good strategy would be?
Terror Bombing? Tried to bomb populated areas, but had little to no effect - certainly didn't have points for it (though I don't think this is a valid tactic in the short campaigns)
Don't waste valuable resources on the radar?
Bombing height? I set bombing height to 20000 where there was no radar and <3000 when there was CH radar??
Ignore airfields and Go for the big capacity industries?
How to have fighter cover? Delayed? Close?

Actually the point of the thread was just to make it public knowledge I've been sacked by the LW! I know some of the things I've done wrong (though pointers will still be appreciated) and will be trying again. There's also a thread on tactics somewhere...I'll have a look round for it later

Post #: 1

RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 12:35:29 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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in the one week 1940 campaign, the goal is to knock out the Sector Airfields

hitting the radar, may/will help you in getting to them, but the airfields are the goal

for terror, you are going to need 10000 points of damage to score one point of Terror (which not overly sure how that adds up in the one week campaign)

stagger your alt some, I would drop down to 14-17 K (I would go 25 if it is a raid set up to draw the RAF out to fight)

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 12:44:43 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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first raid or two of the day, put one or two Gruppen of 110s on close, with some 109s stacked above them on high

for the Luft 3 area, move the 109s closer to the coast, JG 53, is spread out, and JG 2 is too far from the coast to really help

Biggin Hill, Kenley, Tangmere, are key targets, you may want to head to Deben over Hornchurch (that one is dangerous)

tactics and timing of the raids will be up to you, do you want to try and swarm the defence, or keep them busy all day long ?

try to keep your bomber types the same, the different speeds hurt

save the 87's for the knock out blow, they will flatten almost anything they attack, but will pay for it

your losses cost you a lot more then the RAF losses will, easy to say, but you can't waste bombers on attacks that do not help you

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 1:27:41 PM

RAM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

first raid or two of the day, put one or two Gruppen of 110s on close, with some 109s stacked above them on high

I've consistently put Bf110s on high escort at 10.000 feet over the escorted bombers. They don't come into action too many times, but when they do, they usually get very very good results. I'm adamant to use them in close escort because they are, well, sitting ducks. And honestly to send fighters to the grinding machine is not my way to do things, I'd rather send them to have a limited involvement, but do some damage and keep their K/D as high as possible, than to send them at the same level as bombers, and get ripped because they can't even defend themselves.

one question though for the german campaign over britain: how do I do it so my fighters don't get bounced all the way back to base?. When they are on escort duties they get very good results because they come in force and in stratificated high escorts (3000-6000-9000 and 10000 for the 110s and the /stabs). I use very strong fighter covers for 2-3 main bombings in a given day, so there are a lot of fighters to help bring down any english fighter...

but as soon as they point their nose towards france they start getting jumped, and I get a lot of losses that way. I've tried with delay settings to bring some fighters behind the main force, but no avail. And I simply suck using sweeps so no help with that either.

Oh, one more thing, in the long campaign, I think the CFAC are the most attractive targets. Most of them are in southern england, and the two biggest factories are well within 109E escort range :)

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RAM

"Look at me! look at me!!!

Not like that! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 1:44:48 PM

jomni

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Rookie here playing LW in 1940. Thanks for the tips.
For the last question... why not time a Fighter Sweep to get pursuing fighters and returning fighters while the main raid goes home?

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Post #: 5

RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 1:54:00 PM

Oliver Heindorf

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From: Hamburg/Deutschland
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It was my first campaign after the one day scenario. on the first try I won - luckily it seems.

I did almost the things that HS said : I went towards Biggin Hill, Kenley & TAngmere. Later on I move against Middle Wallop.

If you set some of the Bf109 to sweep, they are on a free sweep mission and againt any spit, the Emil is equal so you get a good opportunity to hunt down all those hurricanes.

Try to knock out those sector AFs and you will get alot of points for their damage. I never raided more then one Radar a day. everything went only to their Sector AFs - day & night.

Ignore Industry and everything else. In this scenario sector AF counts the rest is of no matter at all in this one week scenario. do not even think about bombing cities - pointless.

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 2:05:00 PM

JudgeDredd

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I normlly keep 87s for radar. I don't send them inland.

Thx for the tips.

Couple of other questions...

1. When looking for a lead bomber, is it normal/required/necessary to select one of the /Stab units? What are the /Stab units? Is there a penalty for not using one as the lead unit?
2. You say airfields are the gola - but you get points for each 25% damage on industry too - multiplied by the capacity. So 25% damage to an industrial unit with capacity 7 is 1 (for each 25% damage) * 7 = 7 points, whereas 75% damage is 3 (1 point for each 25% damage so 75% = 3 points) * 7 = 21 points...is that right?
3. Recon. Is it worth it? A few things spring to mind...do I have to do recon in order to determin damage in order to get the points, or are the points for damage automatically awarded for the damage done? Also, in the short campaigns where the RAF get points for kills (is it 2 points for each kill), is it worth giving them points by sending recon? Also, what is the point of recon? I know it's to determine baloons, defensive AA, # of aircraft that kind of thing...so is it purely to determine risk when attacking an area? Are there any other benefits to using recon? Specifically with the one week campaign in mind - surely with so little time to do any damage recon is just offering points to the RAF? I'm going to bomb high value industry and RAF fields anyway...right?
4. Lastly - you said "Sector airfields"...I presume you said that because it's important...how do you determine what are Sector Airfields? Does it not show up in the popups? I can't remember seeing this information?

Thx

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 2:34:05 PM

Kriegsspieler

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Rookie here playing LW in 1940.� Thanks for the tips.
For the last question... why not time a Fighter Sweep to get pursuing fighters and returning fighters while the main raid goes home?

My experience has been highly variable with fighter sweeps. If you're really lucky, you catch the enemy fighters coming back home to land and you just pick them off one by one as they descend. Othwerwise you can strafe the base, although doing so often causes lots of damage to your planes from flak. With any luck, strafing will damage/destroy planes sitting on the ground. But other times my fighter sweeps have come up completely empty -- nothing's there, so at most I get to knock out a few AA guns, take some damage to my own planes and head back home.

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Post #: 8

RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 5:05:42 PM

Nicholas Bell

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From: Eagle River, Alaska
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

1. When looking for a lead bomber, is it normal/required/necessary to select one of the /Stab units? What are the /Stab units? Is there a penalty for not using one as the lead unit?
2. You say airfields are the gola - but you get points for each 25% damage on industry too - multiplied by the capacity. So 25% damage to an industrial unit with capacity 7 is 1 (for each 25% damage) * 7 = 7 points, whereas 75% damage is 3 (1 point for each 25% damage so 75% = 3 points) * 7 = 21 points...is that right?
3. Recon. Is it worth it? A few things spring to mind...do I have to do recon in order to determin damage in order to get the points, or are the points for damage automatically awarded for the damage done? Also, in the short campaigns where the RAF get points for kills (is it 2 points for each kill), is it worth giving them points by sending recon? Also, what is the point of recon? I know it's to determine baloons, defensive AA, # of aircraft that kind of thing...so is it purely to determine risk when attacking an area? Are there any other benefits to using recon? Specifically with the one week campaign in mind - surely with so little time to do any damage recon is just offering points to the RAF? I'm going to bomb high value industry and RAF fields anyway...right?
4. Lastly - you said "Sector airfields"...I presume you said that because it's important...how do you determine what are Sector Airfields? Does it not show up in the popups? I can't remember seeing this information?

Thx

Stab units are the Geschwader HQ elements. Lead units with high morale and experience help the entire bomber formation find the target, and therefore improve bombing results. Stab units often have high morale and experience. If you have another bomber unit with better morale and experience, use them instead.

Recent (2 days) recon is important in helping the bombers find and accurately bomb the target. So it is really even more important in a short scenario where you need to maximize your bombing results.

All the Sector Stations are Primary A/F's. Unfortunately there are a few primary A/F's which are not, so some research is needed. It's covered well here:
RAF OOB

Note that the Germans didn't know about the sector stations and how critical they were in terms of controlling/coordinating the defenses. They just knew they were large airfields. So you have a leg up already

< Message edited by Nicholas Bell -- 10/16/2009 5:06:41 PM >

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 5:49:14 PM

Oliver Heindorf

Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I normlly keep 87s for radar. I don't send them inland.

Thx for the tips.

Couple of other questions...

1. When looking for a lead bomber, is it normal/required/necessary to select one of the /Stab units? What are the /Stab units? Is there a penalty for not using one as the lead unit?
2. You say airfields are the gola - but you get points for each 25% damage on industry too - multiplied by the capacity. So 25% damage to an industrial unit with capacity 7 is 1 (for each 25% damage) * 7 = 7 points, whereas 75% damage is 3 (1 point for each 25% damage so 75% = 3 points) * 7 = 21 points...is that right?
3. Recon. Is it worth it? A few things spring to mind...do I have to do recon in order to determin damage in order to get the points, or are the points for damage automatically awarded for the damage done? Also, in the short campaigns where the RAF get points for kills (is it 2 points for each kill), is it worth giving them points by sending recon? Also, what is the point of recon? I know it's to determine baloons, defensive AA, # of aircraft that kind of thing...so is it purely to determine risk when attacking an area? Are there any other benefits to using recon? Specifically with the one week campaign in mind - surely with so little time to do any damage recon is just offering points to the RAF? I'm going to bomb high value industry and RAF fields anyway...right?
4. Lastly - you said "Sector airfields"...I presume you said that because it's important...how do you determine what are Sector Airfields? Does it not show up in the popups? I can't remember seeing this information?

Thx

1. Stab = Staff. HQ Unit of the Gruppe. What Nick Bell said.

2. Dunno

But : Starting an offensive is usually done by bombing enemy airfields - that what I do.

3. a) yes. b) The point of recon is that your incoming raids are able to find their designated target. No recon/old pictures = less chance that your Bombing run will hit the target, simple as that. Recon recon recon recon. Did I said recon ? Recon !

4. The PRI AFs, what Nick Bell said.

cheers !

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 9:29:19 PM

JudgeDredd

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thx alot peeps

Recon it is. I have done very little recon as I wasn't sure of it's significance. I didn't know the game went into the level where if there was old recon, the chances of finding the target diminished...very cool.

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Post #: 11

RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 10:08:20 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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the BoBs are ruff for Recon, they don't have the right planes for it

so....

either mix some recon planes in with the raids, and hope the RAF is too busy

or move your Ju 86's units around, best to get one with Luft 2 and 3, and use there Alt advantage, and use them for anything from simi deep, to deep, the rest of the recon, birds will get slaughted, even more so, if sent out before the raids

remember, though, you do get some recon with your bombers, but it is kind of after the fact :)

Recon is importent

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 10:14:33 PM

oldspec4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

the BoBs are ruff for Recon, they don't have the right planes for it

so....

either mix some recon planes in with the raids, and hope the RAF is too busy

or move your Ju 86's units around, best to get one with Luft 2 and 3, and use there Alt advantage, and use them for anything from simi deep, to deep, the rest of the recon, birds will get slaughted, even more so, if sent out before the raids

remember, though, you do get some recon with your bombers, but it is kind of after the fact :)

Recon is importent

Never thought about mixing recon w/ the actual raid

...

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Post #: 13

RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/16/2009 10:41:12 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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well, it wouldn't be with the raid, but you can time them to fly in the back path or what not, and you can add escort to them, if you want

not as a good idea for the first raid of the day, the AI will let a Recon and escort go most times, it reacts to the bombers, or if it picks up single recon birds

RAM

got to disagree with the high 110s (now I will put a 110 Stab up high) but you are wasting the 36 planes or so, plus, on close, they take the force of the attackers, and to be honest (as a General type) it is better to lose 5-10 110s, then to lose 5-10 He 111s, and for the bomb raid to get broken up, upset, and then to miss the target

the 109s, will then be in postion to start there bounces if the RAF is fighting the 110s, and, the 110s do get lucky at times, they got great forward firepower, and they do have a stinger

but in a one on one, they are a two, if they get the attack, it is also close to a two, when and if they get the bounce, then it is more a one and a half

in 1940, the two planes you have to baby sit are the Ju 87 and the Bf 110

BUT, what is great with this game, for how ever long it has been around, there is not right way, there is no wrong way, if it fits your style, or the way you like, great, go for it

these are my points as a player, not as a game person

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/17/2009 12:10:20 AM

nelmsm1

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I've been putting my 110's on high escort at 6000 ft above and getting fair results. They'll get a chance to bounce Hurricanes sometimes and if they get bounced it always seems to be the Spitfires and they will tend to get a few with those rear gunners. If I put them any lower they get hurt a lot worse, but HS is right about better them then the bombers. I've been setting my raids about an hour apart and going for Middle Wallop, Biggin Hill, Kenley, and Hornchurch until I get them over 50% damage and then rotate to a few others. I've been been using the Ju-87's to take out the radar by launching them 20 minutes behind the main raid with just some high escort at 2000 to 3000 ft over and having pretty good success with it. Been using the Ju-86's to recon the far targets as high as they will go along with the 110 recon birds and using the others to just recon the coastal targets. Those Dornier and Junker recon birds are dead meat any where besides the coast, and even then it's not really safe.

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/17/2009 1:06:18 AM

jomni

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My 110 are taking a beating based on Hard Sarge's advice. Dismal K/D ratio.
But they do distract the interceptors very well.� It's worth continuing but at what cost?
I guess time will tell.

Recon management is something I have to learn.
I just let AI plot the missions most of the time. But they just get killed.

What's the best use for Night Bombers?� AF? or Area?
I thought that because it is night, they will be hitting Area better than AF.� But getting results takes a lot of time.

After playing a week. I lost almost double than RAF just like the OP's experience. Air Superiority stuck at 4. Most coastal radar has been destroyed. Now attacking airfields and Power plants.

< Message edited by jomni -- 10/17/2009 1:09:37 AM >

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/17/2009 2:02:51 AM

Golden Bear

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Doesn't sound so bad Jomni. I've only played a little with this game but you might be doing OK.

I THINK the idea is to have the 110s on CE to draw some fighters off your bombers on the line of thinking: 110s bad against fighters and will get shot down anyway so let them do something useful in the process. THen you can pile up a huge mountain of 109s to hopefully even out the fighter score.

BTW, I haven't done much better on the first couple turns myself. I have the idea that if you can draw the RAF into battle close to the SE corner of England and pound them with your 109s (which is sort of iffy) you can possibly wear down the RAF enough. It seems that the general idea in this game is not to get distracted by factories and terror early in the game but to try to pound on the RAF until they break. I don't know if it can happen but maybe you'll be hte one to tell me...

Carlos

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Post #: 17

RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/17/2009 2:10:07 AM

JudgeDredd

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I always "assumed" the 110's were great planes!

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/17/2009 2:30:39 AM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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that is what I was trying to say, as a General, I am going to be willing to risk my 110s, so my bombers can get though

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RE: Ok - time for some pointers... - 10/18/2009 1:39:19 PM

Oliver Heindorf

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From: Hamburg/Deutschland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

that is what I was trying to say, as a General, I am going to be willing to risk my 110s, so my bombers can get though

Tell this H. G�ring and find yourself being shot asap.

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Ok - time for some pointers...