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air to air after patch - 6/21/2002 2:53:13 AM   
Paulchen

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 4/13/2001
From: Schneverdingen,germany
Status: offline 		After patch 1.10 and 1.11 in game #19 nine turns my zero-landfighters are totaly destroyed.
F1/Tainan 15 escort-missions over PM 1 kill
F2/Tainan 15 escort-missions over PM 2 kill
25 zero and 10 Bettys destroyed
2 wirraways and 1 P-400 destroyed no P39 or P40 are killed
All allied fighters of SWPC are in PM

In version 1.00 the zero-groups allways have the advantage over the allied fighters and the results are changed (it doesn´t matter if human jap or allied).


Have any other gamer the same results?

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veni, vedi, vici
Post #: 1
Strange... - 6/21/2002 3:04:33 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		I haven't seen that in any version and I've had a great deal of success with zeros in 1.10 and 1.11 running Escort and Sweep missions from Rabaul to Port Moresby. Could you give us more details on the experience, altitude, fatigue, morale and commanders of your squadrons?

Regards,

- Erik

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(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 2
- 6/21/2002 4:00:31 AM   
Paulchen

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 4/13/2001
From: Schneverdingen,germany
Status: offline 		F1/Tainan F2/Tainan
Av.Exp. 79 77
Morale 10 65
Fatigue 45 50
LCDR W.Obayashi LCDR T.Nakajima
Leadership 67 73
Inspiration 44 80

Altitude 10000 10000

The problem was there since first turn 05/01/42, this was very frustating to me, because what will happen if the allied have better planes?

It doesn´t change the problem, if i change altitude or any other, i start 3 games and allways the same.

I play with ai "very hard", is this perhaps the reason?

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veni, vedi, vici

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 3
- 6/21/2002 4:03:41 AM   
U2


Posts: 3332
Joined: 7/17/2001
From: Västerås,Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paulchen
[B]F1/Tainan F2/Tainan
Av.Exp. 79 77
Morale 10 65
Fatigue 45 50
LCDR W.Obayashi LCDR T.Nakajima
Leadership 67 73
Inspiration 44 80

Altitude 10000 10000

The problem was there since first turn 05/01/42, this was very frustating to me, because what will happen if the allied have better planes?

It doesn´t change the problem, if i change altitude or any other, i start 3 games and allways the same.

I play with ai "very hard", is this perhaps the reason? [/B][/QUOTE]

Hi
Thats some horrible fatigue/morale numbers you have there buddy. Might be the reason or dare I say IS the reason.
Dan

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Post #: 4
- 6/21/2002 4:09:29 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by U2
[B]

Hi
Thats some horrible fatigue/morale numbers you have there buddy. Might be the reason or dare I say IS the reason.
Dan [/B][/QUOTE]

That could also be after they took the beating, in which case, it's about right.

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(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 5
- 6/21/2002 4:11:31 AM   
Paulchen

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 4/13/2001
From: Schneverdingen,germany
Status: offline 		This can be the reason, but the morale, fatigue are in all games the same at the start, in patch 1.00 too, and i do all the same things.
I only have the squadrons set target to PM, and nothing else. and this i have do in every game, i have never seen this results.

I think all players do the same, like me, or not?

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veni, vedi, vici

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 6
- 6/21/2002 4:12:20 AM   
U2


Posts: 3332
Joined: 7/17/2001
From: Västerås,Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by von Murrin
[B]

That could also be after they took the beating, in which case, it's about right. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hi

You gott I good point there herr von Murrin. Perhaps he should tell us if this was prior to or after the battle
Dan

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(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 7
settings - 6/21/2002 4:22:05 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, it must be the very hard setting. Try this. Next game do not attack PM till the CV get to Rabaul. Then use the CV fighters to help escort the bombers. You should have much better odds then and get better results. Just leave the CV at PM (in a TF) with the fighters set to escort. Leave one group on training each turn. Every day put the fighter group with most damaged ac and low morale on training and replace with the group that had the day off.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 8
- 6/21/2002 6:50:47 PM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		Hi guys
well, not to sound insulting or anything, but I think it is the commander not the troops, what alt is his bombers going in at ?. it does not matter what alt his fighters are set to, they fly cover for the bombers, get the bombers up higher and make the US fighters climb to attack, and I think the Zero's will do much better

will say that the HARDer AI setting may be helping the Allied also, any mistake or misplay on his part is going to be hammered on, more so then before

Mogami, if he can't go into combat with Exp levels of 77-79, then he may as well give up and go home, more training is not going to be the answer

also as I think Erik was trying to say, where and how are you flying the Zeros, are they close range or long range, are you only flying cover missions or are you sending in sweeps too ?

are the bombers comeing from only 1 base, or can you bring in bombers from a few bases ?, can you place a LR CAP over the target ?

do you have the numbers or does the Allies

one thing I see him say, I have always done it this way before, which may also be part of the hassle, you need to make changes, what works on easy, may/should not work on Hard, what works in game 3 may not work in game 17 and so on

good luck mate

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 9
Training? - 6/21/2002 7:03:16 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Who said anything about training? ( set mission to training but level to zero this is to insure the group does not fly but rests) I was thinking of scenario 17 and he is talking about scenario 19 but my point was not to train but to mass fighters before starting any bombing (let the bombers rest) Put all CV in Rabual then fly a recon to PM and count fighter groups on cap. Then assign enough fighters (landbased and carrier) to give a 2 to 1 edge. Excess fighters set to training so they do not fly. Each day put in a fresh group to replace a tired or damaged fighter group. Also only use 2/3 of the bomber force per day with the rested one replacing the most tired/damaged/low morale group. After a few days you should have the Allied fighters wore out. Just like you would not try to make a land attack with 1-1 odds don't fight air battles without good odds. If you can't achive these odds at PM attack someplace where you can. You will pull the PM groups into battle piecemeal.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 10
Re: settings - 6/21/2002 9:17:10 PM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mogami
[B] Leave one group on training each turn. Every day put the fighter group with most damaged ac and low morale on training and replace with the group that had the day off. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hi Mogami
okay I can agree with your thinking, only you did not explain it that way, from your other reply, I thought you were trying to gain more Exp before attacking

will say though with the new air to air, not sure if any fighting is really going on, it looks like all the work to tell us what is going on, the combat got left out

just had 23 Zeros and 3 Vals attack a CV TF sitting in Lunga (Hornet comeing in to join other CV TF and split them into 2 TF's)

143 F4F's and 16 P-39's, after a good 10 min's of combat, the attack started, my boys claimed 17 Zeros and 2 Vals (1 to Flak) for 3 F4F's (think my boys were greedy, I counted 12 Zeros and 1 Val during the fight)

surprised the F4F's wern't flying into each other trying to shoot at a Zero

but around PM, but haveing much more equal battles, and the losses are more around 3 or so for each side

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 11
- 6/21/2002 9:31:37 PM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		How was the weather in comparison between the two?

I find NG frequently in worse weather than the Solomons.

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 12
- 6/21/2002 10:44:47 PM   
Mark Ezra

 

Posts: 340
Joined: 12/29/2000
From: Jasmin Ranch, Acton CA
Status: offline 		To answer only the question of the patch vis a vi air combat. No, I have noticed absolutely no change. Air to air combat seems exactly the same as the original issue. I win some, I lose some with ever constant attacks degrading morale and fatigue on all combatants.

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 13
- 6/25/2002 11:48:29 PM   
zed

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		How much pilot fatigue is too much? lrcap really jacks this up, I see

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 14
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