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The war in Russia - 11/1/2009 12:25:56 PM   
Smeulders

 

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A very interesting theatre in this great game is the war between the Russians and the Japanese. Unfortunately, there isn't too much discussion about this as it rarely becomes active in PBEM games. Therefore, I started this thread, to get a bit of different ideas together on how the war in Russia should be fought, by both sides.

The first, and very important consideration is that Japan will always have the strategic initiative. They decide when the war starts (unless they've made a severe mistake) and will surely be prepared. Because of this it's very important to know what the goals of the Japanese are. I think the most important reasons are.
1) Freeing up troops : If Russia is defeated, there is no more need for a Manchuko garrison.
2) Economy : This is a minor reason, but a bit of oil can be found in Russia and it's easier to transport then from the DEI.

If this is correct, then the best way to win a strategic victory with the Russians is to tie up Japanese troops.

Now that we have our goals, let's have look at how we can best reach them.

As the Japanese, the first goal should be to cut of the railway to Vladivostok, there are many point to do this, but the more to the North you go, the more troops will be cut off. Cutting the railway in multiple places is better, that way, the Russians can't support each other. A critical point is the stretch of rail between the Vladivostok area and Kabarovsk, this needs to be broken at some point, if he can get the Vladivostok forces on the major road, he can escape.
If you manage to contain the Russians in this way, you can start eliminating his forces. This will be a long and hard battle, but if we look at Seylditz's AAR, your forces should be stronger.

What should a Russian player do to tie up the Japanese ? Force him to keep large armies to guard against the Russians or put another way, preserve your forces. To do this, you can evacuate the Vladivostok area from the beginning of the game onward. This eliminates virtually any risk of your forces getting cut off and destroyed.
This strategy does have a couple of major downsides though.
1)First the most obvious, what about the Russian fleet ? If they lose Vladivostok, there is not one decent naval base left for them in the whole area. There doesn't seem to be any good solution to this problem, except for a breakout to the Aleutians. On the other hand, if we expect Vladivostok to fall anyway, then this is only speeding up the inevitable. Question is, how much damage are they able to do in the meantime ?
2) You lose your best airbases. This problem can be minimized though, by building up other bases from the start. Depending on how far you retreat you ground forces, there is Khabarovsk 5(7) and a 4(4) just North. Then the group around Kuibyshevka, 3 bases with 4(7)and then a lot of decent bases further Northwest.

According to me these are the basics of the war in Russia, what are your ideas ?
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RE: The war in Russia - 11/1/2009 12:27:32 PM   
Terminus


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The Japs can't beat the Russians in a land war. Sorry, but they can't.

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RE: The war in Russia - 11/1/2009 12:41:17 PM   
Smeulders

 

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Well, you've probably seen the scenario play out quite a bit more then me during development, but Seylditz has cut off the rail near Vladivostok and it looks like he might win there. At other fronts he's at least holding his own, so that doesn't look like losing by a long shot. Of course, we're only seeing one side, so we can't see the Russian reserves, etc. I also think Seylditz is outplaying his opponent (couple of Russians divisions were mauled badly in futile attacks), but it might just be a bit more even then you think. 

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RE: The war in Russia - 11/2/2009 5:21:11 AM   
kalai

 

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On June 22, 1941, Germany launched its blitzkrieg warfare against the Soviet Union.  Armored and motorized forces quickly punched through the Soviet front line and countless divisions were cut off and surrounded.  Fighting a withdrawal action, the Soviet army retreated eastward and finally made a stand at the gates of Moscow.  In December 1941 the Soviets launched their counteroffensive.  This was merely the first year of strategic warfare waged on the eastern front.  You can play War In Russia - Matrix Edition up until July 1945, fighting for four years over the new improved map.  Numerous campaign games and scenarios are included to allow players many different starting points and game lengths.  Each hex is 20 miles across with each turn representing 1 week.  Land units are at the Corps level, composed of up to 8 divisions. Arnaud Bouis and his dedicated team have once again improved upon Gary Grigsby classic wargame War In Russia.  Arnaud Bouis and team began this project back in May 2000, its aim being to fix the bugs to one of our favorite computer wargames and has done a great job. ________________________________________________________
Pergola Utah Timber Frame  missourihomeowner.com


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RE: The war in Russia - 11/2/2009 3:15:02 PM   
Chickenboy


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To me, any IJ player that intentionally activates the Russians is 'asking for it'. How could the IJ player argue against the Allies shuttling over all of their LBA heavy bombers to Russian airfields? Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

IRL if the Russians had been attacked on their Eastern Front (Siberia), they could very well have approved US bombers operating from the Soviet Far East. Waves of heavy US Bombers operating from Eastern Soviet Airfields would be carpet bombing Japanese homeland production in 1942. War's over folks. This could be done whilest waging a defensive campaign against the IJA incursion.

An effective IJ player must resist the urge to play with those cool Manchuko garrison toys if they want to survive in the long run. Pay your PP and put your Manchuko garrison surplus to good use in other theaters (as was done IRL), but don't anger the bear.

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RE: The war in Russia - 11/5/2009 6:57:13 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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I'd recommend taking a look at the Nomonhun Redux AAR to see whether the Japanese can pull it off. Seydlitz is making a pretty good fist of it so far.

Cheers,
CC

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RE: The war in Russia - 11/5/2009 7:33:45 AM   
Smeulders

 

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I know, that's why I started this thread. I also believed that the Japanese wouldn't be able to pull it off, but Seylditz is showing it's not impossible. For the record, I don't think he'll get a total victory, but destroying the forces in Vladivostok is at least a major one that'll allow him to lower the Manchuko/Siberia garrisons. It also pretty much takes away any airbases that could be used for a strategic bombing campaign. 

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RE: The war in Russia - 11/5/2009 1:47:41 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

I know, that's why I started this thread. I also believed that the Japanese wouldn't be able to pull it off, but Seylditz is showing it's not impossible. For the record, I don't think he'll get a total victory, but destroying the forces in Vladivostok is at least a major one that'll allow him to lower the Manchuko/Siberia garrisons. It also pretty much takes away any airbases that could be used for a strategic bombing campaign. 

Having not followed this AAR closely, has the Allied (Russian) player permitted all manner of Allied forces (including all manner of LBA and the entirety of the USN SS fleet) to operate from Russian bases or is there some sort of self-imposed limitation on this?

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RE: The war in Russia - 11/5/2009 2:26:45 PM   
vlcz


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quote:

Having not followed this AAR closely, has the Allied (Russian) player permitted all manner of Allied forces (including all manner of LBA and the entirety of the USN SS fleet) to operate from Russian bases or is there some sort of self-imposed limitation on this?


They have no home rules so it seems he can, but they are yet in Turn 61 5 Feb 1942 so soviet subs themselves are far more dangeous than Us ones, and with the heavy mauling of the airbases it is not a great idea for the allied deploy his precious 4E over there.

We have only the japanese side of the info, the campaign seems progressing quite well around vlad, but there are some signs of stagnation..it would be VERY interesting knowing his adversary analisys


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