RE: Antietam = Carnage

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Antietam = Carnage

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RE: Antietam = Carnage - 10/22/2009 10:00:35 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Chickenboy, I had carrier aircraft diverting to Malang - I *think* squadrons from at least three carriers. I'll have to move them to Koepang (which my opponent is invading right now), Kendari or Ambon to get them to Oz. I'm sure alot of his aircraft diverted too, but I'm not privy to those reports, naturally. One of his big mistakes was that he didn't have base forces at Soerabaja or Semereng to immediately handle LBA once he took those bases.

You bet I'll run - I hope I get to see the file. I expect to find Hornet sunk, two or three or maybe four carriers crippled, and the rest anxious to get out of dodge.

I think CAP and flak damaged or destroyed a fair number of Jap aircraft, but it wasn't a blood bath. Here's my notes from the two morning raids:

A. First Strike (from the Soerabaja carriers) (total/# destroyed)
1. Zero - 82/4
2. Kate - 58/7
3. Val - 44/9

B. Second Strike (from Semereng-based carriers)
1. Zero - 45/1
2. Kate - 25/7
3. Val - 24/5

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 211

RE: Antietam = Carnage - 10/22/2009 10:31:45 PM

BrucePowers

Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

Any way you look at it.............Ouch!

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 212

RE: Antietam = Carnage - 10/23/2009 4:12:43 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

Canorebel,

Because, in part, I'm anxiously awaiting turns from my two PBEM foes-no pressure, guys

, I can't get this AAR out of my head.

I think what you've done here puts the lie to the prototypical 'Sir Robin' approach to the Allies in WiTP. The Allies, with thorough planning and audacity, can severely retard IJN expansion and alter the course of the war EARLY in the game. And they can do it in the DEI.

These concepts have been roundly pilloried by those who have assumed the dogma of 'run now, fight later'. You have shown tremendous moxy, horse sense and a solid grasp of tactical prowess and pulled off a significant strategic victory. You are to be congratulated, sir.

As much as I appreciate the parallels to the battle of Antietam in the US Civil War, I request your indulgence to reconsider the naming of this battle. Would you consider "The 1942 naval battle of Java" or "The 1942 naval battle of Soerbaja" to enshrine where this fundamental shift in the timeline of your war took place? It didn't occur somewhere in the Solomons in 1943 or in the Phillipine Islands in 1944, but in 1942, in what should have been the backyard of the Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere.

Alright, I'm shutting up now

(and there was much rejoicing...). Just had to say-job well done!

_____________________________

(in reply to BrucePowers)

Post #: 213

RE: Antietam = Carnage - 10/23/2009 8:17:49 AM

Swenslim

Posts: 437
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Odessa, Ukraine
Status: offline

If Japan player was more cautios this result ciuld be totally another. If he had Oscars, Zeroes, Nells at oerabaja or somwhere nearby ?

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 214

RE: Antietam = Carnage - 10/23/2009 9:44:13 AM

JeffroK

Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline

Antietam or Sharpsburg,

You've given a sharp slap (nearly fatal) to Miller but maybe next turn you'll have a swarm of Betty's chasing you home.

This raid, like attacks on Iwo Jima or Hokkaido in 1943 will make the JFB more cautious for a few more months.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Swenslim)

Post #: 215

RE: Antietam = Carnage - 10/23/2009 11:25:40 AM

Mike Scholl

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Antietam or Sharpsburg,

Not a bad analogy. And if you know your opponant very well, it can work. But just remember..., all that would have had to happen at Sharpsburg for the Army of Northern Virginia to be crushed was for "Little Mac" to have woken up that morning with a set of cohones and said. "Alright! EVERYBODY pick up a stick and advance.., NOW!"

(in reply to JeffroK)

Post #: 216

RE: Antietam = Carnage - 10/23/2009 12:44:32 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

Yup, coulda ended differently. But it didn't. Major victory, Canorebel.

_____________________________

(in reply to Mike Scholl)

Post #: 217

RE: Antietam = Carnage - 10/23/2009 1:57:43 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Thanks, Gents, for various comments and insights. A few notes as my opponent continues his efforts to get the game-replay crash rectified via the Technical Support forum):

1. This will be recorded in history as the Battle of Java, the clash the resulted when the Allies fully implemented Operation Antietam (in the same way the Operation Watchtower resulted in the Battle of Guadalcanal).

2. As a genuine Southerner, I realize that the South called Antietam the Battle of Sharpsburg. I generally refer to it in that fashion, but I didn't in this case for reasons I can't explain and that don't really matter. I don't mind calling battles by the Union name nor do I mind Confederates being referred to as the Rebels (they did so themselves, frequently) nor to the War Between the States as the Civil War (many Confederates referred to it as the Civil War in later years).

3. Swenslim, I certainly wouldn't have proceeded with this operation if I had thought LBA would be present. I was willing to take on the KB without LBA (because I figured the KB's airpower was halved due to the carriers' presence in port). Alternatively, I was willing to take on some LBA in the absence of the KB in order to accomplish a city/oil/refinery strike on Soerabaja (figuring it was a surprise attack that actually wouldn't encounter much LBA).

4. I've really played a Sir Robin defense in this game and in my two WitP games. I tend to pull everything out. In this game, though, I did sneak in surface combat and carrier TFs several times in successful efforts to sting and slow down my opponent. I considered, but ultimately rejected, the idea of diverting to Java some of the Aussie troops that arrive in Aden. That might be successful, but it's risky. Ultimately, I felt like such a move might be unsuccessful and it wasn't necessary to my long-term objetive of winning the game.

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 218

Antietam Combat Report - 10/23/2009 2:18:03 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

The Combat Report for the big carrier battle at Java on 4/19/42:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Apr 19, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Madioen at 53,107 (From KB ships at Soerabaja)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 82
B5N1 Kate x 14
B5N2 Kate x 44
D3A1 Val x 44

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 3
Sea Hurricane Ib x 4
Martlet II x 19
F2A-3 Buffalo x 13
F4F-3A Wildcat x 8
F4F-3 Wildcat x 24
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
B5N1 Kate: 4 destroyed, 6 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 7 destroyed, 28 damaged
D3A1 Val: 9 destroyed, 12 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Fulmar II: 1 destroyed
Martlet II: 1 destroyed
F2A-3 Buffalo: 2 destroyed
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Indomitable
CVL Hermes
CL Durban
BB Royal Sovereign, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CV Hornet, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CA Minneapolis
CL Glasgow

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Madioen at 53,107 [From KB ships at Semereng]

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 45
B5N2 Kate x 25
D3A1 Val x 24

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 1
Sea Hurricane Ib x 2
Martlet II x 6
F2A-3 Buffalo x 5
F4F-3A Wildcat x 5
F4F-3 Wildcat x 12
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 7 destroyed, 9 damaged
D3A1 Val: 5 destroyed, 8 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet II: 1 destroyed
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVL Hermes
CV Indomitable, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
CV Hornet, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CL Boise
DD John D. Ford
CL Danae
CL Dragon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Soerabaja at 56,104 [vs. KB ships at Soerabaja]

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 59

Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 27
Fulmar II x 6
Sea Hurricane Ib x 8
Swordfish I x 11
F4F-3A Wildcat x 19
F4F-3 Wildcat x 56
F4F-4 Wildcat x 15
SBD-2 Dauntless x 17
SBD-3 Dauntless x 151
TBD-1 Devastator x 74

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged
Fulmar II: 1 destroyed
Swordfish I: 4 damaged
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
SBD-2 Dauntless: 7 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 destroyed, 10 damaged
TBD-1 Devastator: 2 destroyed, 20 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
BB Ise, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Ryujo, Bomb hits 1
BB Mutsu, Bomb hits 1
DD Urakaze
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
CL Sendai
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 1
CA Haguro, Bomb hits 1
CS Chitose
DD Kasumi
CL Naka
DD Tokitsukaze
DD Shiratsuyu
CL Tama, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Yudachi
DD Yamakaze, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Kagero
DD Shiranui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Shigure
DD Tanikaze
CA Myoko
DD Hayashio
DD Oyashio
DD Yamagumo, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Yukikaze

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Soryu
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Kaga
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Zuiho
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Hiryu
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Shiranui
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Akagi
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Ise

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Madioen at 53,107

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
D3A1 Val x 4

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 2
Sea Hurricane Ib x 2
Martlet II x 2
75A-7 Hawk x 1
F2A-3 Buffalo x 1
F4F-3A Wildcat x 5
F4F-3 Wildcat x 17
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Madioen at 53,107

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 55
B5N1 Kate x 10
B5N2 Kate x 34
D3A1 Val x 37

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 1
Sea Hurricane Ib x 2
Martlet II x 2
75A-7 Hawk x 1
F4F-3A Wildcat x 5
F4F-3 Wildcat x 16
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
B5N1 Kate: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 26 damaged
D3A1 Val: 4 destroyed, 17 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Torpedo hits 1
CA Chester
BB New Mexico, Torpedo hits 1
CV Saratoga

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Madioen at 53,107

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42
B5N2 Kate x 23
D3A1 Val x 24

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 1
Martlet II x 1
F4F-3A Wildcat x 2
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 13 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 16 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1
CL Hobart, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
BB New Mexico, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Revenge
BB Mississippi, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CA Portland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Semarang at 53,102

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 37

Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 4
F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
F4F-3 Wildcat x 25
F4F-4 Wildcat x 10
SBD-3 Dauntless x 92
TBD-1 Devastator x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3A Wildcat: 2 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 7 destroyed, 22 damaged
TBD-1 Devastator: 1 destroyed, 26 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 1
BB Fuso, Bomb hits 1
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Yura
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 2

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Shoho
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring a Akagi class CV

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Soerabaja at 56,104

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 30

Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 3
Swordfish I x 3
SBD-2 Dauntless x 14
TBD-1 Devastator x 10

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 2 destroyed
Swordfish I: 2 destroyed
SBD-2 Dauntless: 3 destroyed
TBD-1 Devastator: 5 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 219

Antietam Analysis - 10/23/2009 2:51:56 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

I still haven't seen the actual turn file (to open up and see what damage my ships actually suffered), but judging from the combat.txt report here is a summary of the impact of the Battle of Java:

A. Allies
1. Sunk - CV Hornet, BB Royal Sovereign, BB Mississippi, BB New Mexico
2. Crippled - CV Lexington, CV Indomitable, CL Hobart

B. Japanese
1. Sunk - CV Akagi (75% sure), CVL Zuiho, CVL Shoho, BB Ise, BB Nagato (50% sure)
2. Crippled - CV Kaga, CV Hiryu, CV Soryu, CL Tama, three DDs
3. Damaged/Out of Action Awhile - CV Shokaku, CV Zuikaku
4. Lightly Damaged - CVL Ryujo, four BBs and a CA

As you can see, the actual "sunk or crippled" list is much more even than I think Miller thought at first. On the other hand, I think the impression that the Japs suffered a grievous strategic loss is correct. Nearly the entire KB should be out of operation for many months. Perhaps Miller can get Shokaku, Zuikaku, Ryujo and a few other escort carriers to sea in a month or two, but that would be it. In contrast, the Allies should have Formidable, Hermes, Saratoga, Yorktown, and Enterprise with Wasp set to arrive in two months.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/23/2009 3:18:40 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 220

RE: Antietam Analysis - 10/23/2009 3:32:27 PM

Wittmann30

Posts: 43
Joined: 3/5/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline

First, congrats! ;)

As you know the combat report is full of FOW..i would bet you still have the Hornet (in badly shape of course). Crossing fingers your battle group will make it to Perth...good luck.

Anyway, i think as you the KB is down now for at least the next 3 month or so. What means, risky expansion on his side without CV cover. Bought you plenty of time.

Cheers, Wittmann

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 221

RE: Antietam Analysis - 10/23/2009 3:41:01 PM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

Congrats on that! Pretty awesome.

I don't know what I would do if I were Miller. He's up a creek if you're correct about the losses. He has probably lost the game; Auto-Victory is out of reach, and if you don't get auto-victory as Japan, you will lose the game in 1945 if you are playing for points.

If I had no CVs, and I were Japan, I would probably expand just out to the historical perimeter; you can still get PM without CVs, using LBA from Lae. You really can't go further than the Solomons though. After that I would probably dump all the SRA troops in China, and launch a super-offensive there. Other than that, he has to go over to the defensive in April 1942, which is BAD.

_____________________________

(in reply to Wittmann30)

Post #: 222

RE: Antietam Analysis - 10/23/2009 3:46:48 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Yeah, I agree. The Japs are toast without mobility in '42. Miller already has Port Moresby and Luganville, but that's no big deal. The Allies are rock solid on the key bases of Noumea, Suva and Pago Pago and can probably begin thinking about moving forward now that the KB is out of commission.

Miller is pressing me in China pretty severely, but I don't know if the thought of reinforcing there will occur to him. He might fixate on the notion he needs to reinforce CenPac and SoPac. You're right, though - China is the only place he can really do harm now and that would be his best move.

My early impression of AE (based upon this game, so I could be wrong) is that the Japs are slowed down considerably and the Allies are better able to sting early. If the Allies are similarly slowed down later in the game, then the game is balanced.

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 223

Antietam Re-Run - 10/26/2009 2:24:32 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

After my opponent and I both installed the hot fix (patch 1.084e), we re-ran the turn with decidedly different results. Less damage to BBs on both sides, less damage to the KB (the Allies didn't even go after Shokaku and Zuikaku at Semereng), more damage to Allied cruisers, and overall the Japs probably come out much better from a strategic standpoint. Yes, the KB took some hits, but the Japs should be able to assert carrier superiority in a fairly short time. This should enhance gameplay over the coming months, so I am satisfied. Here are the revised results:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Apr 19, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Madioen at 53,107

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 88
B5N1 Kate x 23
B5N2 Kate x 70
D3A1 Val x 70

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 3
Sea Hurricane Ib x 4
Martlet II x 19
F2A-3 Buffalo x 14
F4F-3A Wildcat x 8
F4F-3 Wildcat x 24
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
B5N1 Kate: 2 destroyed, 13 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed, 29 damaged
D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed, 20 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Fulmar II: 1 destroyed
Sea Hurricane Ib: 1 destroyed
Martlet II: 4 destroyed
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CL Glasgow
CV Indomitable, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Hermes, Torpedo hits 3, heavy damage
CA Astoria
CV Hornet, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Thracian
CL Boise, Torpedo hits 1
CA Minneapolis, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
DD Fanning
CL Danae
BB Royal Sovereign, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA Exeter
DD Nestor
CA Cornwall, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CL Dragon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Madioen at 53,107

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 47
B5N2 Kate x 36
D3A1 Val x 36

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 1
Sea Hurricane Ib x 1
Martlet II x 2
F2A-3 Buffalo x 3
F4F-3A Wildcat x 1
F4F-3 Wildcat x 6
F4F-4 Wildcat x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 17 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Fulmar II: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Royal Sovereign, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Danae, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA Astoria, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CV Indomitable, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Boise, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Fanning
DD John D. Ford, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Dragon, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CL Enterprise, Bomb hits 3, on fire
DD Thracian

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Soerabaja at 56,104

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 53

Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 27
Fulmar II x 6
Sea Hurricane Ib x 9
Swordfish I x 11
F4F-3A Wildcat x 19
F4F-3 Wildcat x 56
F4F-4 Wildcat x 15
SBD-2 Dauntless x 17
SBD-3 Dauntless x 150
TBD-1 Devastator x 74

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged
Fulmar II: 1 destroyed
Sea Hurricane Ib: 1 destroyed
Swordfish I: 2 damaged
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 9 destroyed
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 destroyed, 23 damaged
TBD-1 Devastator: 27 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Haguro
BB Ise, Bomb hits 4
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Mutsu, Bomb hits 4
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Ryujo, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CL Tama
CL Sendai
DD Samidare
CL Kuma
BB Hyuga, Torpedo hits 1
DD Nowaki
DD Hamakaze
DD Kasumi
CL Naka
CA Tone
CA Chikuma
DD Amatsukaze
CS Chitose, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yamakaze

So, Allies lost Hornet and Hermes (the latter has 98 SYS and is nearly a lock to go down under a flurry of additional attacks tomorrow); Royal Soveriegn and Indomitable are moderately hit and can probably make it back home; quite a few cruisers are in bad shape including Boise. The Japs lost Kaga, and Hiryu should be in bad shape as should Zuiho and Ryujo. But the Jap BBs are essentially unscathed - a big difference.

Assuming the four American carriers and Formidable make it back to SoPac in good condition, the Allies should be able to contest on even terms any big Jap move on SoPac or CenPac. I think Operation Antietam essentially prevents the Japs from any major operations in the Pacific now, leaving Miller largely on the defensive strategically. He does have the Indian Ocean and China as potential targets for serious expansion. India I can handle, but all bets are off in China.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 224

AE's Most Dangerous Feature - 10/26/2009 5:13:50 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

4/20/42 and 4/21/42

To the surprise of both Miller and me, the Allied carriers remained near Java for two more days. Even more surprising, this was a successfull hold-over for the Allies.

AE's Most Dangerous Feature: I had set my carrier TFs to withdraw, using waypoints, toward Perth. The carriers moved just a few hexes south, however. There aren't any damaged ships in the TFs, so the only thing I can figure out is that they slowed down to allow an AO TF (set to follow the lead carrier TF) to rendezvous. I had this same trouble playing the Guad scenario just after AE was released. AOs set to meet up with and then follow carrier TFs will make the carriers act very strange and move very slowly. I have learned my lesson!

Allied Carriers: The Allied carriers sent four big strikes against merchant shipping at Semereng, Miller having moved Shokaku and Zuikaku out of harm's way. These strikes just completely tore up 20 to 40 Jap merchant ships and also damaged CVE Hosho. Over the two days, there was just one Jap counterstrike effort - a moderate sized group of Zeros and Vals from Soerabaja that were easily handled by CAP. No Bettys or Nels or other LBA sortied, nor did Jap aircraft sortie vs. the multitude of damaged Allied ships in the area. CA Cornwall went down, but CVL Hermes and a host of other crippled ships are still afloat just five to seven hexes from Soerabaja. I *think* Indomitable and Royal Soveriegn will still escape, but Hermes and a host of damaged CLs (Boise, Danae, and others) should go down under a hail of attacks or just under the weight of accumulated damage.

KB: Miller apparently moved his undamaged/lightly damaged carriers out of the area. I don't have any aircraft/sorties left on my carriers after four days of heavy attacks, so I hope my carriers skedaddle now.

Strategic Implications: Miller lost a true host of merchant ships, which may be nearly as serious as the damage to his carriers.

Koepang: The bombers I moved to Koepang lit into another group of transports here, damaging four to six.

SoPac: Another Marine regiment landed at Pago Pago (AV 700) with one more Army regiment on the way. I believe the Allies have finished with the big reinforcement operations in SoPac, now. I'll send some smaller units to some of the smaller bases that still need help, but I'm also begining to think "forward." I have an infantry regiment and an Aussie brigade prepping for Luganville and will consider proceeding with that operation when the former, which is on the way, arrives at Noumea.

Comment: Our game has gone seriously awry. First, I was off two days; then the replay-crash-bug cost us a good four days to unravel; then we had to deal with different results in the big carrier battles; then my carriers lingered against orders and shellacked the Jap merchant fleet. This has sucked the momentum out of the game; it will take us a few days to get back on track. But, overall, I think the Japs have taken a strategic blow that will be difficult to recover from.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/26/2009 5:16:27 PM >

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Post #: 225

RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature - 10/27/2009 4:59:49 PM

Canoerebel

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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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4/22/42 to 4/27/42

Miller and I are starting to get back on track after the Wierd Week of Carrier Battles, Crashes, and Other Game Disruptions. I'm trying to get a handle on how the carrier battles affect the game strategically, both from my perspective and Miller's. The game has definately entered the "next phase" earlier than normal.

Allied Carriers: Reached Perth on the 27th, refueled, and have replaced aircraft. There aren't enough F4F-3s and SBDs to replace the heavy battle losses. The TFs will now proceed to Sydney where I think I can make good all fighter squadron losses by upgrading F4F-3s to F4F-4s. SBDs are going to take much longer to replace. In the late carrier battles, Allies lost CV Hornet and CVL Hermes. CVL Indomitable suffered moderate damage but will make port unless it stumbles across a Jap sub.

KB: I don't know where Miller put his carriers following the battle - Manila or Paula would be my guesses. He should be able to put together a strong force - stronger than the Allied carrier group - fairly soon. I assume he'll send them to Truk or Kwajalein or Rabaul to support whatever he plans to do in those areas - or to meet whatever threats he perceives.

Initiative: With the KB hurt and a massive loss of APs (Miller says he lost 25% of the total he had), I doubt Miller will try a major amphibious operation against a heavily guarded Allied base. IE, I think much of the heat is off Ceylon, India, Noumea, Pago Pago, Suva, New Zealand, and probably all of Australia with the possible exception of Darwin. He will continue major land-oriented operations in Burma and China. He may also try low-risk operations on fringes distanct from the threat of Allied carriers - the Aleutians come to mind.

Allied Response: It is still far, far too early in the game for the Allies to conclude that they are ready to meet the Japs head-on. I don't want to become overconfident. I will try to advance my interests in several areas, though. First, the Allies are sending base force, artillery, and infantry to Adak Island. Second, I will consider an invasion of Luganville in the short term - within two weeks. This one worries me because by then the KB could be in the vicinity. But the Allies will also have LBA as close as Efate. A newly arrived American infantry division (32nd?) is allocated to SWPac. I've set prep for Port Moresby, but I could change that to a base on Timor. Not sure, yet, that I would try something like that in the near term, but it's worth mulling over.

China: A bunch of Jap artillery just arrived at Changsha, beginning a new period of elevated Chinese losses to bombardment (700 troops one day, 550 the next: ouch!). This is ridiculous because Changsha has 6 forts (15% to level 7). I've got to hold this base - it's the very heart of my MLR. I have some reserves nearby and will probably have to rotate depleted units out and replace them with fresher units close by. I have 3200 AV there at the moment, so it should hold.

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Post #: 226

RE: AE's Most Dangerous Feature - 10/27/2009 10:07:40 PM

Canoerebel

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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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4/28/42 to 5/1/42

We're picking up the pace - today we'll do four turns covering eight game-days.

KB: Sightings of several carrier aircraft squadrons suggest that at least some of the KB remains in the DEI. KIX put a torpeo into an AR in the Malacca Straits - I *assume* this was heading to Soerabaja to help repair carriers. I am nearly certain that for at least a few weeks the Allied carriers could afford to meet whatever carriers Miller could cobble together.

SoPac: Given the carrier-comfort level, I'm inclined to proceed with Operation Bethel Church, the amphibious assault against Luganville. The Allies will have a Marine regiment, Aussie brigade, U.S. artillery unit, and Kiwi base force - all but the base force have high prep numbers, and the base force won't go in until after the base is taken. Recon shows two Jap units 3,000 strong - one has to be an enginner unit because the airbase is level one (I think it starts the game as a zero?). An augmented Force Z, the Allied carriers, and some LBA from Noumea and Efate would assist in the operation. This *should* be a quick, low-risk strike - kind of like Guadalcanal in the real war, right?

DEI: The Japs are landing at Manado, but the force that landed at Koepang couldn't take the base and is now badly disrupted. Most of the Allied carrier aircraft that diverted to Malang have now hopscotched to Darwin via Kendari/Lautem/Koepang/Timor and/or other bases.

India: With the perceived threat to Ceylon/India reduced by the late carrier battle, the Allies are moving some units to more forward locations - primarily in and around Calcutta, Dacca, and Chittagong.

China: The Japs are moving a small stack toward Sian; I suppose Miller was thinking he might catch the base lightly guarded. In fact, however, it has a decent garrison behind forts. An advance Jap unit (9th Ind. Bde) crossed the river, launched a 1:99 shock attack, lost 5081 to 8, and promptly retreated. I think Miller will conclude that the back door to Sian isn't open.

Aleutians: Troops slated for Adak Island will begin arriving in four to six days.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/27/2009 10:08:26 PM >

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Post #: 227

Antietam Aftermath - 10/28/2009 5:04:51 PM

Canoerebel

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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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5/2/42 and 5/3/42

Sub Wars: Miller has set up a gauntlet of subs - at least three - in the waters around Melbourne/Portland. I-165 picked off an empty AP and I-174 got an empty AK. I-6 was attacked by DD Fanning, a lone destroyer returning to port from some mission I've forgotten. The Allied carrier TFs were nearing this area enroute to Sydney, so I've rerouted them around Tasmania. Meanwhile, two Allied subs scored hits with torpedoes that turned out to be duds.

Antietam Aftermath: Indomitable, Royal Sovereign, and Astoria, the three most heavily damaged capital ships still at sea, finally made Perth. I have a heck of alot of ASW working these waters, but to my surprise there didn't seem to be any lurking Jap subs. One other badly damaged ship is at sea - CL Danae - but she looks good to make Perth.

Operation Bethel Church: The Marine regiment and an artillery regiment are aboard transports that will arrive at Noumea in less than a week. The troops will disembark and then re-load in combat fashion. They will be joined by an Aussie brigade already at Efate. I have checked to make sure that I have plenty of APs in the region. Force Z will participate and I'll have the carriers nearby - no further than Sydney - should they be needed. I think the invasion will take place in two weeks.

Aleutians: Troops begin unloading at Adak Island tomorrow; an infantry regiment is unloading at Cold Bay and an EAB is on the way there from Seattle. Troops in Tacoma are preping for either Umnak or Amchitka (can't remember which) and will head to Seattle to embark on transports.

CenPac: Three damaged Pearl Harbor carriers have reached the West Coast - one at Seattle and two at Alameda. The fourth (Oklahoma) departs Pearl tomorrow. Reinforcements are unloading at Johnston Island. I'm weighing the possibility of trying to hold Canton Island. I already have troops 100% prepped, but I don't know if I want to risk the ships needed to carry them that far forward.

China: Miller has advanced troops to Nanning in the southeast and is continuing to sniff around Sian. Despite mutual big stacks at Changsha and Chengchow, Miller hasn't tried any assaults there recently. The Chinese MLR is still intact.

Burma: The Japs are advancing in relatively small numbers and should take Mandalay in less than a week. The Allies will have 400 AV behind two or three forts at Schwebo and another 80 AV behind three forts at Lashio. Miller doesn't have enough to overwhelm Schwebo at this point, and I don't think he can send all those troops to Lashio because then his rear would be unprotected. He needs reinforcements. I've been willing to concede Burma since early in the game, but he's taking his sweet time about things here.

Strategic Situation: At this point, it appears that the early-war Jap offensive will exceed the historical gains only in a few areas - Port Moresby, Gili Gili, Luganville, Burma, and China. I think the Allies are in good shape everywhere except China, and even there I'm satisfied if I can hold the MLR - but that's a big if at the moment.

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Post #: 228

RE: Antietam Aftermath - 10/28/2009 5:44:55 PM

Swenslim

Posts: 437
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From: Odessa, Ukraine
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What kind of crush did you have ? Today in PBEM�I expirienced crush when enemy hit my DD. Renaming Sound folder to NOSOUND helped me to play replay graphics till the�end without crush.

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Post #: 229

RE: Antietam = Carnage - 10/29/2009 9:27:07 AM

JeffroK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Antietam or Sharpsburg,

Not a bad analogy. And if you know your opponant very well, it can work. But just remember..., all that would have had to happen at Sharpsburg for the Army of Northern Virginia to be crushed was for "Little Mac" to have woken up that morning with a set of cohones and said. "Alright! EVERYBODY pick up a stick and advance.., NOW!"

I saw it as similar to Lee's move into the Unions backyard and iff the first Mac had half a brain, or some of is commanders been half competent (Burnside) Lee should have been destroyed, for whatever affect on the War.

Here, Miller should have come better prepared, brought along some Base Forces and had Betty into Soerbaja ASAP.

As it is, you took him on, both sides took heavy losses and you will retreat back across the river, well into the SWPA at least and in future, Miller will be a bit more wary.

(PS. I name all of my spawned CV, CL etc after alternate names, i have a Sharpsburg to go along with the Antietam, I also have a Fredericksburg & Malvern Hill)

_____________________________

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Post #: 230

Torpedo Alley - 10/29/2009 3:33:28 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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5/4/42 to 5/7/42

Torpedo Alley: Miller established a mammoth wolf pack in the waterways between Tasmania and Melbourne extending east and west toward Sydney and Portland. This was a good idea - he had surmised that the carrier groups might retire this way. Attacks on merchant shipping revealed the ambush, however, and the carrier TFs slipped around the seaward side of Tasmania. Here is a roster of Jap subs operating in this region: I-6 (got an AK on the 6th), I-174, I-1, I-172 (got AO Guadalupe on the 5th), I-164 (got an AK on the 6th), I-170, I-169. There are also at least two subs operating near Noumea. With this much activity along the SE coast of Oz, I have redirected the carrier TFs to Auckland. P.S. ASW operating out of Melbourne and Sydney have been "reacting" and chasing subs, though without effect thus far. Very neat, though, to see the "react" feature working well.

Operation Bethel Church: The Marine regiment and artillery regiment are due to arrive at Noumea in four days. They will disembark and combat load for the invasion of Luganville. I've also ordered APs to Luganville to pick up the Aussie brigade there. Force Z, augmented by a combat TF on the way from Oz, will provide surface combat support. The carriers will also be close if needed.

AO-Worth: These ships are gold in AE - permitting carrier operations in far-flung areas like the recent attack on Java. Oz just didn't have enough fuel, but thanks to AOs my carriers were able to proceed and then withdraw by a circuitous route that avoided Torpedo Alley. I used AOs in WitP, of course, but they weren't ever critical to my plans. They are in AE and I intend to assign DDs to them, as ASW, whenver possible. I tried to steer my AOs clear of Torpedo Alley, but somehow allowed Guadalupe to go astray and paid for it.

NoPac: Troops unloading at Adak Island and Cold Bay. A combat TF (one slow BB and four DD) will be stationed at Kodiak to provide protection in the region.

Falling Dominoes: Mektila (Burma), Padang (Sumatra), Buka (Solomons), and Munda (Solomons) fell.

Civil War Battles: JeffK, I've always enjoyed the South/North versions of Civil War battle names. The ones I can recall are Shiloh/Pittsburg Landing; Bull Run/Manassas; Antietam/Sharpsburg; Stones River/Murfreesboro. Both sides used the same names for most of the big battles: Gettysburg, Chickamauga, Fredricksburg, Chancellorsville, Vicksburg, Nashville, Wilderness. Operation Bethel Church is named for a little-known battle in Virginia early in the Civil War.

Swenslim: The crash occurred during combat replay - during a big carrier battles - and was apparently caused by my opponent and I not upgrading with HotFix 1084e. We've upgraded and haven't had any further problems.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/29/2009 3:45:15 PM >

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Post #: 231

RE: Torpedo Alley - 10/29/2009 8:43:01 PM

Canoerebel

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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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5/8/42 and 5/9/42

KB: Patrol aircraft in the Ambon area sighted Jap carriers heading NNE on a course that would take them north of New Guinea toward either Rabaul or Truk. B-17s from Darwin sortied, reported Shokaku, Zuikaku, and Shoho present, and then missed in bombing runs against two of four BBs present (Mutsu, Fuso, Yamashiro, Ise). Cursor intel revealed that there may be more than the three carriers present in this TF. I *assume* this is the KB and its heading could put these carriers in the Luganville region just about the time the Allies are ready to invade.

Allied Carriers: Should arrive at Auckland in two days. This will give them a few days to rest, refuel, and prepare for Operation Bethel Church.

Operation Bethel Church: The Marine regiment is unloading at Noumea, the artillery regiment will arrive tomorrow, and APs are on the way to Efate to load the Aussie brigade. D-Day should be in a week.

Jap Subs: The entire region is full of Jap subs - over these two turns, the following showed up: RO-64 (Noumea), RO-61 (Noumea), RO-62 (sea lanes east of Brisbane), RO-68 (Noumea), RO-60 (Sydney). Miller may well suspect that the Allied carriers are heading to Auckland - I have ASW working with more on the way from the Perth region. Far, far to the west, I-25 claimed both a TK and an AK off Trivandrum, India. What's with the brittle tankers and oilers? One torpedo and, Poof!

Port Blair: I have debated whether to reinforce for two weeks and have finally decided to do so - a small recce unit will embark from Colombo. I want enough at Port Blair to force Miller to commit seriously if he wants to take it, but I don't want so much that it turns into a prison/death chamber.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/29/2009 8:44:07 PM >

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Post #: 232

The Seas are Alive with the Sound of Sonar - 10/31/2009 8:52:34 PM

Canoerebel

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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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5/10/42 to 5/13/42

Operation Bethel Church: Three weeks ago I played a hunch in proceeding with Operation Antietam, the carrier strike on Java. This time I'm playing an anti hunch by postponing Operation Bethel Church, the invasion of Luganville. The base is lightly garrisoned by Japanese troops and is not well-supported by the Japs - no other bases are close by - so it was worth a quickly put-together surprise strike. Things have developed too slowly, however, some things are not coming together properly, and I think it's better to postpone this for a week to address the following:

1. The Aussie brigade prepping for Luganville is also the garrison for Efate. I don't feel comfortable leaving Efate unprotected. I've ordered the transports to move SE about 600 miles to clear the dangerously exposed "front lines" for awhile. I have ordered an Aussie brigade at Brisbane to begin prepping for Efate. These troops will move to Sydney and embark on transports. I've also moved a P-39 squadron from Suva to Efate to provide some fighter protection.

2. At least one aircraft carrier fighter squadron just upgraded from F4F-3 to F4F-4 - at the moment just one of 27 fighters is operable. This outfit needs time to become air-worthy.

3. Luganville is so exposed that Miller would worry about a strike even if I wasn't up to anything. So I can expect either no resistance (if he decides it's too weak to protect) or a major battle. I need to think this through and make sure I'm as prepared as possible for an all-out battle including the Japanese carriers. With the Allied carriers, a level five airfield at Noumea, and a level one airfield at Efate, things look pretty good. Luganville currently has a level one airfield. Since this operation probably won't surprise Miller and doesn't need surprise to succeed, I might begin bombing the airfield immediately along with sending Force Z to bombard prior to the invasion.

The Seas Are Alive with the Sound of Sonar: Geez, Jap subs have taken up residence around Melbourne, Sydney and Noumea:

1. I-162 damages PG Charleston near Sydney
2. RO-60 is damaged by ASW near Sydney
3. RO-33 gets an AK near Sydney
4. I-174 is attacked by ASW near Melbourne
5. RO-62 finished off a damaged AK near Sydney
6. I-155 is attacked by ASW near Sydney
7. I-172 is attacked by ASW near Melbourne.

Elsewhere, I-25 gets hammered by ASW near Bombay (I think she went down) and I-22 gets a TK near Trivandrum.

Losing the Loving Feeling: Mandalay falls on the 12th. Elsewhere, Sabang holds against attacks but should fall in days, while a Jap attack at Malang fails miserably (Miller is having a hard time wiping out the final pocket of resistance on Java).

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Post #: 233

RE: The Seas are Alive with the Sound of Sonar - 10/31/2009 10:49:49 PM

JeffroK

Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
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Re using the Australian Militia Bdes offensively.

Check that you use units with good exp levels, I've had a few surprises when attacked by similar sized but vastly more experienced japanese forces. (Have you got a NZ Bde available to take over Efate, I would guess the threat to NZ has dropped some.)

Whats happening in the rest of the PTO, can Miller make trouble in theatres where he is less reliant on airpower, Burma, Aleutians, China?

Dont forget to strip your West Coast Marine Sqns for SBD's, they can train up on SBU's (I have had SBU on CV's for the same reason and they work OK, out of range of any japanese aircraft)

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Post #: 234

RE: The Seas are Alive with the Sound of Sonar - 10/31/2009 11:06:41 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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Canorebel,

As the IJ player in two PBEMs, I've found that the IJ production of sea mines is not nearly as meager as the board discussions would suggest. Type 88 (submarine-delivered) sea mine production is particularly plentiful. When I have some island bases that are worthy of defense, I will use this abundance to defensive effect.

As Allied player, I would begin to consider the effect of offensive mining of bases that are likely to be contested when my game gets to the point where you are in yours (mid 1942+). This would be yet another way for your opponent to surprise you with the efficacy of his submarines once your ASW starts holding its own.

Have you been including AMs in your invasion or reinforcement packets?

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Post #: 235

RE: The Seas are Alive with the Sound of Sonar - 11/1/2009 12:54:36 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Chickenboy: Thanks for the heads-up. I don't think I've encountered a mine yet, but I'll try to keep my guard up. One other reason that I postponed Bethel Church is to await arrival of two or three DMS that are on the way from Pearl Harbor. I do have three AM that can assist with transport convoys.

JeffK: The Aussie brigades have low experience; they would be fine if I had acted fast enough to surprise and overwhelm the defense. As it is, I will rely primarily on the Marine regiment for the punch needed to take the base.

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Post #: 236

RE: The Seas are Alive with the Sound of Sonar - 11/1/2009 3:18:43 AM

racndoc

Posts: 2519
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From: Newport Coast, California
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Canoerebel....just catching up on your AAR....nice job with the CV battle near Java.

I had a 4 on 4 CV battle in my PBEM in 2/42 in the Solomons and noticed similar results. In your game the Japanese attack came in at 19,000' and was detected at 160 NM giving your CAP 60 minutes heads up to take off and reach CAP altitude....I bet virtually ALL of your CAP was flying at the time of the Japanese attack. Conversely, your attack went in at 16,000' and Japan detected the raid at 40 NM giving them only 15 minutes for the CAP to get airborne...I bet only a portion of Miller's CAP was able to intercept. I think radar is extremely important in AE and possibly overated at this point of the war as the USN hadnt developed effective fighter direction control until after the Fighter Direction School was established on Oahu following the Battle of Midway....so radar should pick up the incoming strike but USN CAP shouldnt be so effective.

In my 4 on 4 carrier battle the Japanese attack was detected at a range of 120 NM giving my CAP 45 minutes to get airborne...and _every_ one did. Japanese Kate and Val A2A losses were horrendous. Check out the plane losses for the turn of your carrier air battle and see if Japan lost disproportionally more naval bombers to A2A than you did. Like your attack, IJN CVs without radar didnt pick up my incoming attack until a range of 40 NM also giving them _only_ 15 minutes to get their CAP airborne...and I think that the CAP was minimal when considering the number of IJN carriers involved.

The other thing to look at is the effect of escort ships on "soaking up" torpedoes. In your battle your escorts ate 16 torpedoes while your carriers were hit by only 8 torpedoes...if that ratio was reversed your CV losses would have been much worse. In my 4 on 4 CV battle my escorts ate 10 of 11 IJN torpedoes.....worse than in stock WitP and allowed me to sink/heavily damage all 4 IJN CVs vs 2 moderately damaged USN CVs....the game may have inadvertantly become inbalanced in favor of the Allies in this way.

Comments.....

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Post #: 237

RE: The Seas are Alive with the Sound of Sonar - 11/1/2009 10:06:41 AM

Smeulders

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Joined: 8/9/2009
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Are you using Koumac as an airbase ? The port is bad, but supplies can be moved overland from Noumea and it's a potential lvl 7, probably the best airbase you can find around there.

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Post #: 238

Torpedo Alley on Steroids - 11/2/2009 6:06:00 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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5/14/42 to 5/19/42

Torpedo Alley on Steroids: The blistering pace of Jap submarine attacks in the waters around southeastern Australia and New Caledonia somehow managed to increase. See list below of Jap subs sighted in the area between the 10th and 19th of May, 1942. These subs have claimed ten ships. Allied ASW has been active (see list of Jap subs sunk by ASW to date in a following post) and the list of Jap subs sunk to date is actually pretty impressive. But I've never faced sub warfare on this scale before. Two things: (a) Will the sub losses eventually begin to affect the Japs; and (b) Will Miller eventually move subs over to Auckland, where my carriers are parked?

Anti-Submarine Efforts: The Allies have been trying to handle the subs by using aircraft patrols, ASW TFs, and re-routing ships from forward positions in CenPac and SoPac. I haven't been as thorough in limiting traffic around Oz, but that is changing.

Allied Subs: Once in awhile Allied subs score. Spearfish got an xAK near Truk and Perch took care of an AKL off Wenchow, China.

Ship Losses to Date: It was interesting to compare the ships lost summary in Q-Ball's AAR to what we've experienced in this game. Here's my tally of ships sunk. This does not include a Jap CV, two CVL, and a BB listed but that I don't believe are sunk.

CV/CVL: Allies -2 (Hornet, Hermes); Japs - 2 (Kaga, Zuiho)
BB: Allies - 2 (both at Pearl Harbor)
CA: Allies - 3; Japs - 1
CL: Allies - 4; Japs - 0
DD: Allies - 8; Japs 2
PT/Patrol: Allies 46; Japs 10
Aux: Allies 21; Japs 5
TK: Allies 16; Japs 1
AO: Allies 5; Japs 0
Subs: Allies 2; Japs 26
AP: Allies 15; Japs 5
AK: Allies 80; Japs 31

Total Sunk: Allies 200; Japs 67
Points Scored: Japs 2,195; Allies 597

Operation Bethel Church: Following the indefinate postponement of this operation, the Allied carriers went into port at Auckland. They will remain there until all aircraft squadron upgrades are complete. Force Z bombarded Luganville on the 19th. B-26s and Hudsons from Noumea hit the airfield at Luganville on the 18th.

DEI: The Japs have invaded Namlea; Sabang and Kendari fell to the Japs. The Allies still hold Malang (on Java) and Ambon. A Jap combat TF led by CA Haguro sank two xAPs unloading supplies at Port Blair (after these ships had already unloaded a small recon battalion that should prevent the Japs from just grabbing this base without any effort).

Burma: The Japs have a few units holding the line at Mandalay while five others advance on Lashio. The defense at Lashio is 200 AV behind a single fort. I doubt that's enough. At Schewbo I have 430 AV behind two forts and a river. Miller probably won't advance on Schewbo until he takes care of Lashio.

India: Forward defences at places like Colombo, Calcutta, and Chittagong look good to me. Most other forward bases have small garrisons: Akyab, Cox's Bazaar, Imphal, Ledo, etc. Miller can't threaten India without the KB and I doubt he'll be willing to commit his carriers when they're needed so badly in the Pacific.

China: Miller continues to bombard at Changsha and Chengchow, but no attacks there. He has advanced a small stack (four units - two brigades, two regiments) behind my lines to sever the road connecting Sian and Loyang. However, his troops have been cutoff themselves, so supplies should pose a problem for him. Miller has also advanced some units to Nanyang, but I don't think he has enough to pose a threat there. In China, therefore, the MLR continues to hold with no obvious signs of cracking at the moment.

Aleutians: The Allies have reinforced Adak Island and Cold Bay, which are now defended along with Dutch Harbor and Kodiak Island. An infantry battalion will soon load aboard transports and head for Amchitka Island. The main defense in this region is a BB and four DDs posted at Kodiak. Miller showed absolutely zero interest in the Aleutians in our WitP game, and is now doing the same, to date, in this game.

AdmSpruance: Interesting analysis. I agree that effective fighter-control operations from American carriers at this point would not be historical.

Smeulders: I have just garrisoned Koumac with an Aussie brigade. I'll be sending an engineer unit as soon as I have one available.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/2/2009 6:13:51 PM >

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Post #: 239

RE: Torpedo Alley on Steroids - 11/2/2009 6:15:19 PM

Smeulders

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Have you got the forces in China to attack the Japanese units you have cut off ? If you manage to get about 2-1 in AV you could do some serious damage.

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Post #: 240