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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/10/2009 1:19:49 AM   
sPzAbt653


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Status: offline 		2nd Panzer Army has made the closest progress to Moscow. Rather than continue towards the capital, the panzer divisions should probably strike north in order to pocket the Soviet forces around Vyazma-Mozhaysk.




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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/10/2009 3:36:38 AM   
BigDuke66


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Status: offline 		So your running a winter offensive?
Should the German side be capable of such an operation?

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/10/2009 3:44:35 AM   
cesteman


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Status: offline 		Cant wait for a product to use :)

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/10/2009 11:25:59 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

So your running a winter offensive?
Should the German side be capable of such an operation?


I don't see why not.

quote:

Cant wait for a product to use :)


We are working on monitoring how well Elmer does in his defense (with the recent objective track schemes and use of the EEV). Beyond that it seems we are pretty much done with this, so it may not be long.

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/10/2009 12:26:23 PM   
BigDuke66


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Status: offline 		Because the German Army wasn't even prepared for the winter at all not to speak of making an offensive.

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/10/2009 4:45:55 PM   
cesteman


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Status: offline 		I have to agree with the above post. What's the negative shock for the first winter?

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/10/2009 5:12:11 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

What's the negative shock for the first winter?


At turn 42 the Axis Shock Level is 115%. At turn 43 (Nov 41) it goes to 100%. At turn 73 (Feb 42) it goes to 105%.

I wouldn't say I'm having an offensive in Jan-Feb 42, it's more like an advance to contact (as you can see in the above post with the screen shot of 2nd Panzer Army). Also keep in mind that the mistakes made by the Wehrmacht in Aug-Oct 41 put them in the bad position they were in at Dec 41.

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/10/2009 6:23:57 PM   
BigDuke66


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Status: offline 		And the Russian shock values?

Is the AI in no position to make a winter offensive?

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/10/2009 9:15:21 PM   
cesteman


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Status: offline 		I think they have some shock for a few winter turns, I just can't remember what it is for V653.

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/11/2009 2:36:03 AM   
sPzAbt653


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Status: offline 		The Soviet Shock Level goes to 115 on turn 49 (early Dec), and stays there until turn 61 (early Jan). This Winter Offensive is on a turn range, so the player doesn't know exactly when it will start.

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/11/2009 4:53:06 AM   
cesteman


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Status: offline 		Nice to know. I assume it will show up in the news report when it's active?

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/11/2009 7:54:04 AM   
sPzAbt653


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Status: offline 		I seem to remember that it does not. I do remember that all of sudden the Axis units are weaker, and then the Soviets start attacking and you can't hold ground. And it goes on for 10 or so turns. It sucks, but that's life on the East Front.

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/12/2009 12:08:37 AM   
cesteman


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Status: offline 		Agreed on the life sucking part. Is there any way to let either player know via the new feed when their shock goes up? Knowing me, I would pay attention to losses until three turns after the fact!

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/12/2009 12:27:53 AM   
TPOO

 

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Status: offline 		Also, the Axis Shock Level drops to 95% at the start of the Soviet Offensive and recovers to 100% at the end.

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/12/2009 1:39:33 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

Is there any way to let either player know via the new feed when their shock goes up?


It's difficult to justify because how does an officer know when the troops will perform differently? But ... in the scenario the Axis is notified of shock value changes because otherwise the player doesn't know what is going on (and that is a playability issue). And ... eventually the officers would get word from the front as to what is going on.

No news for the Soviet side though. Elmer doesn't need it (PO Bias is used to calm him down when things are rough, and to kick him in the pants when things are good). We felt that putting Soviet Shock values in the news strings gives the human player an unfair advantage.

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D21 playtesters thread - 11/13/2009 3:57:39 AM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Hey you guys I downloaded the latest ( I think ) version of D21 and am taking a look around planning my first turn as the Axis and I found out that the RR arty has to be put in rail mode before it can move at the railroad rate. But when the equipment is aboard the train it can't fire. I'm not sure I like that. Seems as though I remember that in FITE you could shoot with your RR arty and didn't have to switch modes to move it because it only had one mode: the RR-moving mode. And further, the D21 RR arty can be moved off the rail lines. Cross-country RR arty doesn't seem right to me. I'm wondering why the unit is deployed like this and how much trouble it would be to "fix" it. Or....maybe you can explain why it's good just the way it is.

Anybody?




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 11/13/2009 3:58:57 AM >

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RE: D21 playtesters thread - 11/13/2009 4:39:48 AM   
Veers


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Status: offline 		$20 says that the modder felt that railroad arty that could dart and dash about firing and then moving, and then firing was not realistic, as prep time was involved before those bad boys could fire. Probably supposed to be a House Rule that they can only move on rail.

But I could be wrong...:D

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RE: D21 playtesters thread - 11/13/2009 10:01:25 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

But I could be wrong


But you could be right ... and are!

Hey Mr. Fulkerson, I just sent you the latest file.

Looking into the railroad guns that the Germans used, I came across two things of interest: 1, it took a lot of time and effort to move most of these guns around, and more time and effort to set them up. 2, the total number of shells that some of them fired is pretty low, and some of them were restricted by a limited number of available shells.

As Veers said, to have them represented with a movement allowance over 200, and with unlimited firing ability, didn't seem very good. So we 'fixed' them so that their movement now takes away from the Axis rail capacity (I'd like to make them heavier), they have limited movement because they have to embark/debark, and they have limited rates of fire (due to their low movement allowance). Yes, they can move off rail (actually some did historically, as they were railed to a location and then moved into position by tractor). It's the one downside to the overall situation, but moving them off-rail isn't much fun, as they can only move a little, and if the Russkies catch them they are goners.

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RE: D21 playtesters thread - 11/14/2009 12:33:46 AM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Oh......okay.  Now that you've explained the reasoning behing the deployment it makes sense.  Thanks for that enlightenment.  By the way, the version of D21 that I'm playtesting is dated August  15, 2009.  I'm going to start over ( since I'm only on turn 2 so far ) and use the newest version.  I've uploaded it to a file server and all you guys can find the latest version of D21 at this address:

http://www.mediafire.com/?uamodnczzbm

Thanks to sPzAbt653 and TP00 for all their hard work on D21.


< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 11/21/2009 11:56:18 PM >

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Post #: 439
RE: D21 playtesters thread - 11/14/2009 6:32:01 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

Thanks to sPzAbt653 for all his hard work on D21


Thanks Mr. Fulkerson, but ... no love for Rick 'TPOO' ??

He and I are sharing the playtesting and modding efforts.

And for your efforts I will give you some top secret intel . There is a gap in the Soviet defense between the Don River and the rivers Donetz/Oskol. We've decided that we wanted that area to have some sort of defense, no matter what the overall situation, so we're fixing it up this weekend. But for now, the major crossings from Voroshilovgrad (192,232) north to Novy Oskol (179,207), and the area between there and the Don River, are fairly undefended.

Cheers!

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RE: D21 playtesters thread - 11/14/2009 7:29:13 AM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Thanks Mr. Fulkerson, but ... no love for Rick 'TOO' ??
He and I are sharing the playtesting and modding efforts.


Opps......sorry, didn't know about a Rick. Thanks Rick for your efforts as well. If you guys are ever in Tucson I'll buy you a beer. LOL

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RE: D21 playtesters thread - 11/14/2009 11:39:10 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Quick question for the Directive 21 scenario designers:  Are there any Axis or Soviet units that DON'T reconstitute?  Reason I ask is that in FITE most of the Axis units and some of the Soviet units don't reconstitute so loosing a uint can become a big thing after all the lost units add up.

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RE: D21 playtesters thread - 11/15/2009 1:46:15 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

Are there any Axis or Soviet units that DON'T reconstitute?


Similar to FiTE, some do, some don't. You can check the 'D21 Background' document for some general guidelines. You can look in the Editor to see which ones do and which don't. You can also run a Scenario Dump to check for a units Recostitution eligibility (hit 'Ctrl' and 'f', type in the unit name). I place my vote to add this info to the Unit Report dialogue box in some future version of TOAW, so it can be easily found. Maybe some don't want it to be known, though.

Overall, it's best not to lose any Axis units, and to destroy every Soviet unit you can, especially when they are unsupplied.

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/15/2009 8:15:49 AM   
Silvanski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Jan - Feb 15, 1942. Finally captured Odessa, closed off the northern passes into the Crimea, and have reached Rostov.

What did Elmer do during the Nov-Dec 41, did you have to deal with a counter offensive?

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/15/2009 10:45:49 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

What did Elmer do during the Nov-Dec 41, did you have to deal with a counter offensive?


Yes, that was back during the turn 36-56 period, when I made the brief comment '... the bad Axis supply situation and harsh winter conditions. That slows things enough, but then the Soviets get some shock and supply bonuses for their Winter Offensive so they can make some effective counterattacks.'

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/15/2009 7:14:16 PM   
Silvanski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

What did Elmer do during the Nov-Dec 41, did you have to deal with a counter offensive?


Yes, that was back during the turn 36-56 period, when I made the brief comment '... the bad Axis supply situation and harsh winter conditions. That slows things enough, but then the Soviets get some shock and supply bonuses for their Winter Offensive so they can make some effective counterattacks.'

OK so you don't need to use things like a penalizing Pestilence event for the first winter

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/15/2009 9:22:13 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Hey you guys.....I made a first stab at a movie of me and my moves during the playtesting of D21. The movie is about a minute long and is about 5.12M big and you can find it here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?eiyyomfdlqg

Your suggestions are welcomed. Maybe the AARs of the future will be a sort of playback of the game as it happens while you watch.

I made this movie by getting screen captures before and after I moved something and stringing the separate images together using Windows Movie Maker. It's not all that complicated and it's easy but it's time consuming to say the least.

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/16/2009 4:02:45 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		I found out that when I use WMM ( windows movie maker ) that the program shrinks the picture I captured to a size 640 by 480 when it makes the movie so if I capture screens as 1270 by 900, say, then the detail is washed out and you can't tell which unit is which etc.  So I used GIFanimator.exe to string the screen images together and the file is much much bigger but the detail is better.  I put together a 43-frame movie which is about 10M bytes big and uploaded it on a file server so you guys can download it and watch it if you want to. 

Would a movie showing the moves in a game be something that might appeal to people?  Beginners might like to watch the moves of the experts when they play.  Not that I'm an expert. Especially if there's a running commentary on why the moves are done that way.  Anyway you can find the new movie here:

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=aumjmwqmqme&thumb=4




< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 11/16/2009 8:24:46 PM >

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/16/2009 5:05:13 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

so you don't need to use things like a penalizing Pestilence event for the first winter


I don't think so, and as Rick said, the Axis get an additional -5% shock once the Soviets start their offensive.

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RE: Turns 57-69 - 11/17/2009 1:10:23 AM   
BigDuke66


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Status: offline 		But wouldn't it be good to simulate the losses of the unprepared Wehrmacht for a winter war?

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