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WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET

 
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WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 7/13/2009 1:08:35 PM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hi Guys,
I have WITP already and I will be buying WITP AE when it gets released,I'm seriously thinking about buying WPO right now but, I have doubts about this one.

my first concern is the games future ie does it have one ?

Secondly I would love to create a WW1 British V Germany scenario is this possible with WPO ?

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller
Post #: 1
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 7/14/2009 2:08:35 AM   
Rysyonok


Posts: 2138
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline 		Yes and yes.

The latter will require some research and both - commitment.

_____________________________


(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 2
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 7/14/2009 9:14:42 AM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Ok I took the plunge and I now have WPO added to my games collection from matrix. I have been looking at this forum and not alot seems to be happening,so what is in the pipeline for upgrades and improvements for this game ?

Update I just loaded the database editor, oh my god I have a huge number of ship classes to add yet, the only British pre-dreadnought class is the Lord Nelson,Britain had over 40 Pre-Dreadnoughts alone,as far as I can see there are no German ships so I will have to input all of these as well,I'm just scratching the surface here I will be at this for months,good job that there is plenty of free space available within the editor to input all these new ships.

Latest update so far I have added the (8) King Edward V11 class Pre-Dreadnoughts to the database,how do I go about adding the ship art for these ships, can I use paint.NET software to save and edit photos and add them to the game ?

The good news is my new scenario trial loads and runs great, and it has my new King Edward V11 class ships in the game fantastic, just need to add the ship art for this class.Then get down to the serious business of adding all the other British pre-Dreadnoughts,Cruisers etc + all the German high seas fleet,now I know what I will be doing during my holidays yabee daby dooooooo

Update from the last update = I have added all British Pre-Dreadnoughts to the game and alocated the same art to all classes since all Pre-Dreadnoughts look similar,and I have been playing a test game using the new ships for the past 7 hrs I could be here all night fantastic!!!!!

< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 7/17/2009 10:50:27 AM >

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to Rysyonok)
Post #: 3
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 7/17/2009 2:20:50 AM   
Connfire


Posts: 872
Joined: 7/18/2008
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline 		Sounds very interesting. I look forward to hearing of your progress.

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 4
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 7/17/2009 10:25:40 AM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hi Connfire,

While searching throught the ship database,for British Pre-Dreadnoughts I noticed that the London class was listed as a minelayer,so I checked with my reference books about her career and true enough in 1917 she was converted to a minelayer, and served with the 1st minelaying squadron in January 1918,the problem was I was creating her class as a Pre-dreadnought,so I saved her ship art and deleted her Minelaying role,can't have 2 classes with the same name in the database I think,anyway I was not taking the risk.

Next course of action I used, was to have all the British Pre-Dreadnoughts use the Londons bit map art, listed in the database as (88) but from looking at the other pre-dreadnought photos I knew the Majestic had both her funnels side by side, so from the side she looks as thought she just had the one funnel.Easily solved I removed one funnel from the londons bit map art using Paint.NET available free to download on the web good software,and since the bit map database has some open slots I used number (88) for the london class + all other Pre-Dreadnoughts and number (23) for Majestic class.

I also restored all 3 British Battlecruisers sunk at Jutland,its my scenario I'll do what I want hey !!!!!!!

Plus using the ship database I have tweaked quite alot of ships factors mainly increased ships durabilitys.

All in all it's just a case of trial and error playing around with the ship art and databases,so have fun I am

< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 7/28/2009 3:50:24 PM >

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to Connfire)
Post #: 5
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 7/21/2009 12:35:15 AM   
Rysyonok


Posts: 2138
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet
can't have 2 classes with the same name in the database


Sure you can. New Mexico has 3 entries and Clemson I think has 5 :) The game does not examine class name, it connects ships to classes by numbers (ship entry 2487 belongs to class 451, etc).

_____________________________


(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 6
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 7/21/2009 7:01:41 AM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Good to know it's safe to have 2 or more same name ship classes cheers!

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to Rysyonok)
Post #: 7
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 8/4/2009 2:33:14 AM   
Xxzard

 

Posts: 440
Joined: 9/28/2008
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Just a random note: Playing naval simulation game Jutland, I organized a straightforward fleet v. fleet battle British vs Germans, with maximum realism settings, including fragile Brit AP shells and magazine explosions. The result was surprising, as even though to some degree the British were able to cross the T, the superior durability of German ships paid off. Outnumbered 2-1 they put up a very good showing and destroyed the British fleet in a prolonged battle.

The British ships died so quickly their superior numbers were eliminated once the battle really got going. So I'm figuring this just goes to show that a pro British conclusion is absolutely not certain.

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 8
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 8/4/2009 2:16:32 PM   
Connfire


Posts: 872
Joined: 7/18/2008
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline 		Both the British and Germans entered the battle with the fear that they could lose the entire war if they suffered a major defeat, and acted as such.

The lack of penetratability of the British shells was a big problem, but the fact their ships had no flash protection for their shell handling rooms was a disaster. 3 battlecruisers blew up at Jutland due to this oversight, and had it not been for the heroic sacrifices of a handful of sailors HMS Lion would have been the fourth. The Germans discovered this flaw by accident - they nearly lost SMS Seydiltz to it at Dogger Bank - and by Jutland they had modified their ships accordingly. Their only battlecruiser loss, Lutzow, sank after the battle from accumulationed damage, rather than blow up like her British counterparts.

Had the Germans fought more agressively losses would probably have been higher on each side, particularly the British. The question is if the High Seas Fleet would have had enough units left in fighting condition after the battle to press the advantage.

(in reply to Xxzard)
Post #: 9
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 9/6/2009 2:58:20 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		The Germans fought a very bad battle, resulting at the end of sending the scouting division ( BC's) in a charge to cover the rest of the fleet. If this had not happened, you could argue that Lutzow would not have been lost and far less damage to the BC's overall. The Germans should have tried or the big battle earlier. Once the Warspite and "R" class arrived, the power really shifted to the Grand Fleets advantage. The 15" guns finally gave the British the hitting power they needed. I think if the Germans got aggressive early, they would have had the chance to fight a more even battle. Still, winning hte sea war and gaining control of the North sea was probably beyond the ability of the high seas fleet.

a naval war senario I would like to see is if the US joined the central powers. Fr/GB/Japan  vs the US and germany would be very interesting to try

(in reply to Connfire)
Post #: 10
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 9/7/2009 3:49:50 PM   
Connfire


Posts: 872
Joined: 7/18/2008
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline 		One scenario that's been kicking around in my head is how to simulate a 1922 scenario whereby the Anglo-Japanese Self Defense Pact is still in force and implemented, without the combined Japanese and Royal Navies slaughtering everything that gets in their way.

How about this? - World War I ends in early 1918, with Germany agreeing to withdraw from France, in exchange for some territorial concession to the east at the expense of Russia, which is in the throws of the Bolshevik Revolution. Another condition for peace is the USA, whose European Expeditionary Force wasn’t able to get into full scale combat in the trenches before the war ended, guarantees the security of the German Pacific and Chinese colonies (including the Caroline and Marshall Islands, and Tsingtao in China). The Kaiser, though weakened, is still in power, League of Nations never forms, and the High Seas Fleet is intact.

The Washington Naval Conference breaks down in 1922 when it is discovered that the USA is eavesdropping on Japanese communiqués (as they really did in real life). The Anglo-Japanese Defense Pact remains in force. Diplomatically isolated, the USA signs a mutual defense pact with China. Sensing opportunity, the Japanese successfully fabricate incidents in China to appear she was attacked by the Republic of China and Germany. The USA, and the UK and Commonwealth, are reluctantly drawn into opposing sides to honor their treaty obligations, but not before agreeing to avoid another bloodbath in Europe by limiting the scope of the war to a clearly defined area in the Pacific Rim (which by amazing coincidence happens to be the WPO map, thereby allowing the Royal Navy and High Seas Fleet to arrive in the theater intact). The Great War in the Pacific is underway.

One note about the High Seas Fleet, however. I'd imagine the endurance of their BB and BCs would be quite low, unless somehow it was understood that they were modified. With the exception of their overseas cruisers, most of the German ships had limited crew quarters, it being expected that their crews would mostly sleep on barracks on shore. This is one reason that the UK didn't buy the German explanation before World War I that the High Seas Fleet was built to protect overseas German colonies, as opposed to taking on the Royal Navy, which was about one day's sail away.


< Message edited by Connfire -- 9/7/2009 9:16:11 PM >

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 11
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 9/9/2009 2:56:37 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Or go with the thought that after WWI, France did not want to risk having a land war fought on her soil again, and sat things out. Therefore the armies of Eurpoe are taken out of the picture, but you can still have GB/Ger fight in the North sea or East Atlantic.

(in reply to Connfire)
Post #: 12
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 9/12/2009 9:50:53 PM   
Rysyonok


Posts: 2138
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ConnfireOne scenario that's been kicking around in my head is how to simulate a 1922 scenario whereby the Anglo-Japanese Self Defense Pact is still in force and implemented, without the combined Japanese and Royal Navies slaughtering everything that gets in their way.


Is possible to 'shift' British ships to the Japanese side. Just make sure they end up in appropriate slots and with appropriate art... check the editor manual :)

_____________________________


(in reply to Connfire)
Post #: 13
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/16/2009 3:27:42 PM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hi Guys,
A little update to my earlier post a few months back,having been playing WITP Admirals edition for a while,I found myself hanckering after War plan orange,with all the big ships and very few planes,I have added all the German high seas fleet to the game up to their Armoured cruiser's with all Ship art.Will be adding the Light cruiser's + destroyers and U boats later this week,gives the Japanese a little helping hand, I have also added all the British fleet complete,so let battle commence,just love it.

< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 11/16/2009 3:28:19 PM >

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to Rysyonok)
Post #: 14
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/16/2009 5:36:40 PM   
tex


Posts: 204
Joined: 3/8/2009
Status: offline 		That´s great work, congratulations! I know how tedious it can be adding stuff to this game, so well done! And of course, if you want to share any of it, I am sure you would find many interested people 

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 15
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 12:25:10 AM   
Connfire


Posts: 872
Joined: 7/18/2008
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline 		I'll second that!

(in reply to tex)
Post #: 16
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 8:02:57 AM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		If anyone is interested in my art work for the German high seas fleet,this file pack at present contains the following ship classes.

Pre-dreadnoughts = Braunschweig + Deutschland.
Dreadnoughts = Westfalen,Helgoland,Kaiser,Konig + Bayern.
Battlecruisers = Von der Tann,Moltke,Seydlitz + Derfflinger.
Armoured Cruisers = Furst Bismarck,Prinz Heinrich,Prinz Adalbert,Roon,Scharnhorst + Blucher.
Light Cruisers = Gazelle, Bremen + Leipzig classes only so far will be adding more shortly.

The art pack has been made available for download my thanks to Tex for that cheers.

http://www.filefront.com/14941247/HIgh%20Seas%20Fleet.zip


Here is a great site for getting German ship art =

http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/index.html


< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 11/17/2009 3:27:58 PM >

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to Connfire)
Post #: 17
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 12:26:01 PM   
tex


Posts: 204
Joined: 3/8/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks very much for sending that along, it was very kind of you.

I can say to everyone that this work is top notch, and the ships will look great in your game!

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 18
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 2:23:12 PM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hi Tex,
You can send any art I create to anyone you want to the more the better,The German navy should have been in the database from the start of the games release,the Nation with the second largest fleet during world war 1 should have been made available as a stock what if scenario in my humble opinion.

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to tex)
Post #: 19
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 2:54:52 PM   
tex


Posts: 204
Joined: 3/8/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Graham,

Since you don´t mind your work being distributed amongst the world, I have taken the liberty of uploading it here for all to download:

http://www.filefront.com/14949821/undefined

So those of you out there who want to own the High Seas Fleet, just download this file and all the Kaiser´s seafaring dreams can be yours. Highly recommended!

I agree that this should have been included in the game. I would also like to have seen other ships of the First World War era, such as those of the French fleet, but perhaps that is beyond the scope of this game. Oh well, maybe with WPO AE (that was sarcasm, for anyone who cares).


EDIT: The url is for the new and improved version with working shils and a ship list.

< Message edited by tex -- 11/18/2009 9:04:40 PM >

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 20
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 3:21:30 PM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Thanks Tex,
For the download site, by the way I will be adding Ships for other Nations ie Italian,French etc in the near future I will keep you posted if interested.

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to tex)
Post #: 21
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 4:24:26 PM   
tex


Posts: 204
Joined: 3/8/2009
Status: offline 		That would be great Graham, the more ships the better!

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 22
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 4:47:17 PM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hi Tex,
I have been getting an unusual problem with my Shil art,it is still displayed as pink around the ship while within the blue combat screen,have not had this prob before any ideas whats going on,don't know if it's just a glitch with my pc graphics,are they appearing ok in your game?

I have not done anything different from the art I done for the 40 British Pre-dreadnoughts I added months ago they are fine,this is weird no doubt I will figure it out.

< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 11/17/2009 4:51:55 PM >

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to tex)
Post #: 23
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 5:44:00 PM   
tex


Posts: 204
Joined: 3/8/2009
Status: offline 		So I just made a quick scenario where I sent Braunschweig unescorted to Manila, and sure enough, when she was in the periscope view the pink showed up. I seem to recall reading something about this somewhere on the forum, but I am not sure where. What process did you use when you made the shils? I wonder if it is a layering problem. Rysyonok may have an idea.



(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 24
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 7:05:47 PM   
tex


Posts: 204
Joined: 3/8/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Graham, check out this thread:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1405076&mpage=1&key=ship%2Cart�

(in reply to tex)
Post #: 25
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 7:37:48 PM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Ok I read that about the Shil,I will check it out,can't think of doing anything I have not done before thought.

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to tex)
Post #: 26
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 7:59:13 PM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hi Tex,
I have made ship art for ww2 German ships for WITP AE ie Bismarck & Tirpitz etc and they are fine using the same method I have done with the ships for WPO without any probs,the black boarder they talk about does not apply,my Shils are all pink go figure.

< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 11/17/2009 8:00:12 PM >

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 27
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/17/2009 8:44:02 PM   
tex


Posts: 204
Joined: 3/8/2009
Status: offline 		Okay, I have a workaround, but it is rather labor-intensive 

I took your shil 0420 and cut out the ship only and then pasted it onto an original shil from the game that I had painted over the ship (so that there was only an empty pink background). In the game this works fine, no pink anywhere. I don´t know what the problem is, but at least there is a way around it.

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 28
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/18/2009 7:50:56 AM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hi Tex I can't remember where I got the Shil template from, but DIXIE wrote in that other post that the problem could be the shade of pink used in game,anyway from now on I will only use a Shil from within the game as a template,that way I know there should not be any problems in the future,thanks for feedback.

< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 11/18/2009 7:51:49 AM >

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to tex)
Post #: 29
RE: WW1 BRITISH GRAND FLEET V GERMAN HIGH SEAS FLEET - 11/18/2009 9:54:24 AM   
tex


Posts: 204
Joined: 3/8/2009
Status: offline 		I compared the colors and they were both the same in all ratios, including the color number. Very strange situation indeed! 
I will make the changes and repost the download.


< Message edited by tex -- 11/18/2009 10:19:17 AM >

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 30
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