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RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/19/2009 4:02:13 PM   
composer99


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One comment regarding the NRD form itself: I would suggest that the radio button option 'Nada', assuming selecting it means that players do not want to see either unit status or section, be revised to 'None'. If duplication is a concern, then perhaps 'N/A' would be a good second choice. Nada just seems so... colloquial.

Unrelated to the NRD form but a potential issue, the CV classes seem too high. E.g. in post 1888 the Saratoga and Enterprise should have CV classes of 4, not 6, and the Bunker Hill and Essex should have CV classes of 5, not 7. The CVLs are also too big but I don't know off the top of my head whether they should be class 1 or class 2.

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RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/19/2009 5:22:05 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

One comment regarding the NRD form itself: I would suggest that the radio button option 'Nada', assuming selecting it means that players do not want to see either unit status or section, be revised to 'None'. If duplication is a concern, then perhaps 'N/A' would be a good second choice. Nada just seems so... colloquial.

Unrelated to the NRD form but a potential issue, the CV classes seem too high. E.g. in post 1888 the Saratoga and Enterprise should have CV classes of 4, not 6, and the Bunker Hill and Essex should have CV classes of 5, not 7. The CVLs are also too big but I don't know off the top of my head whether they should be class 1 or class 2.

How about 'PLain' or 'Nil'?

The year is 1944, which is why the CV classes are larger.

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Post #: 1892
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/19/2009 6:03:53 PM   
Skanvak

 

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ctrl-left click seem not user friendly. Should left click select path, right click move fleet to selected destination better?

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Post #: 1893
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/19/2009 7:21:53 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skanvak

ctrl-left click seem not user friendly. Should left click select path, right click move fleet to selected destination better?

Right click almost always displays a popup menu. I might have violated that dictum at times - but then again, I might be 100% true to it also.
--
Controlling the movement of units by hex or sea area is rare. On land it is usually to overrun air/naval units or take control of specific enemy hexes; at sea it is usually to avoid a sea area, even though doing so costs more movement points. Neither of these things happens very often. For most moves (98%?) you just select the unit(s) and click on the destination.

Therefore the more 'difficult' Ctrl-left click seems to me to be appropriate.

EDIT: For clarity.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 10/19/2009 7:25:10 PM >


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Post #: 1894
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/19/2009 7:24:29 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

One comment regarding the NRD form itself: I would suggest that the radio button option 'Nada', assuming selecting it means that players do not want to see either unit status or section, be revised to 'None'. If duplication is a concern, then perhaps 'N/A' would be a good second choice. Nada just seems so... colloquial.

Unrelated to the NRD form but a potential issue, the CV classes seem too high. E.g. in post 1888 the Saratoga and Enterprise should have CV classes of 4, not 6, and the Bunker Hill and Essex should have CV classes of 5, not 7. The CVLs are also too big but I don't know off the top of my head whether they should be class 1 or class 2.

Here's today's first revision.




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Post #: 1895
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/19/2009 9:17:25 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Unrelated to the NRD form but a potential issue, the CV classes seem too high. E.g. in post 1888 the Saratoga and Enterprise should have CV classes of 4, not 6, and the Bunker Hill and Essex should have CV classes of 5, not 7. The CVLs are also too big but I don't know off the top of my head whether they should be class 1 or class 2.

Warspite1

One little, but effective, example of the extra power of a computer game over its cardboard equivalent. The change in CV class each year is computed by the program and the counter is then updated (rather than the need to look at the back of the counter each time to check the class).


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Post #: 1896
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/20/2009 3:21:39 PM   
composer99


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CV counters don't have their upgrades listed on the back of the counters. These are mentioned in the rules. My group plays with CVPs to boot, so no wonder it all seemed so unusual.

And the change from 'Nada' to 'Nothing' in the unit list options of the NRD form looks great. Would 'Both' be better than the 'S[tatus] + S[ection]' entry in that list?

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Post #: 1897
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/20/2009 5:38:49 PM   
BallyJ

 

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[image][/image][image][/image]?

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Post #: 1898
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/20/2009 6:25:04 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BallyJ






[image][/image][image][/image]?

Do you get all the posts by email? Visit the forum to see the pictures.

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Post #: 1899
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/20/2009 6:48:06 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

CV counters don't have their upgrades listed on the back of the counters. These are mentioned in the rules. My group plays with CVPs to boot, so no wonder it all seemed so unusual.

And the change from 'Nada' to 'Nothing' in the unit list options of the NRD form looks great. Would 'Both' be better than the 'S[tatus] + S[ection]' entry in that list?

There is some rule about increasing the class of older carrier units at some point(s?) in time. That only applies when NOT playing with the optional carrier air units. In the program this is only a few lines of code:
// ****************************************************************************
function TNavalUnit.GetAirCapacity: Byte;
begin
  if UnitType in CarrierSet then
	begin
  	Result := GetLongValue(NavalData0, BombardmentMask, BombardmentShift);

    if not OptRules.CarrierPlanes then
    begin
	    if Game.Date.Year >= 1944 then Inc(Result, 2)
   	  else if Game.Date.Year >= 1942 then Inc(Result);
    end;
  end
  else Result := 0;
end;


Carrier data on class is stored in the same location as bombardment data for surface ships (for memory use efficiency).

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RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/20/2009 7:31:07 PM   
Mike Parker

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
There is some rule about increasing the class of older carrier units at some point(s?) in time. That only applies when NOT playing with the optional carrier air units. In the program this is only a few lines of code:


Isn't that incorrect? Older CV's get an increase in class when you ARE playing with CVP's right? Or did I hit my head on too many hard objects this morning!


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Post #: 1901
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/20/2009 7:44:11 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Parker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
There is some rule about increasing the class of older carrier units at some point(s?) in time. That only applies when NOT playing with the optional carrier air units. In the program this is only a few lines of code:


Isn't that incorrect? Older CV's get an increase in class when you ARE playing with CVP's right? Or did I hit my head on too many hard objects this morning!



When you play with CVP you get new stronger CVPs each year and that is the way the carriers get stronger then.

Without the CVP it is the CV that gets a increase in strength.

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Post #: 1902
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/20/2009 8:20:39 PM   
Nikolai II

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Therefore the more 'difficult' Ctrl-left click seems to me to be appropriate.

EDIT: For clarity.


How about shift-click? And/or to be able to click one sea-zone/hex at a time if wanted? (Instead of having to assign a final destination at once)

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Post #: 1903
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/20/2009 9:07:40 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

CV counters don't have their upgrades listed on the back of the counters.

Warspite1

Goodness and apologies - as I said, it was long time ago that I played the old 5th Edition game - the little coloured boxes are on the back of the carrier aircraft aren`t they?

But if I read Orm`s post correctly, the principal re the benefits of computer vs cardboard is still valid as the increased CV capacity is taken care of by the program.




< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/20/2009 9:12:38 PM >


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Post #: 1904
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/21/2009 12:30:25 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikolai II


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Therefore the more 'difficult' Ctrl-left click seems to me to be appropriate.

EDIT: For clarity.


How about shift-click? And/or to be able to click one sea-zone/hex at a time if wanted? (Instead of having to assign a final destination at once)

Ctrl-left click is easier to type - to press the Shift key you have to 'reach' over the Ctrl key. I have given preference to usinge Ctrl and Alt instead of Shift for that reason.
---
Sure, you can Ctrl-click on individual sea areas or hexes for movement rather than just clicking on the destination sea area or hex. Makes-no-never-mind to the program.

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Post #: 1905
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/23/2009 3:09:08 PM   
Neilster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: morgil

How about marking the units with a big phat red stripe right across the chit, just over the name of the unit ?
And then use a white one for japan ?
Unsubtle, but definate..


Just a note that I might appear somewhat brusque in my replies (or lack thereof) to suggestions. That is not intentional, just one of my personality defects.

I do read all suggestions seriously and throw them into my mix of thoughts & ideas on the game. Some ideas may have zero apparent impact on what I am doing until months later, when they resurface in a modified form.

Like mine, for example...

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 1906
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/25/2009 9:50:55 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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I now have the naval review details and naval review summary forms working together the way I want. The only missing piece is the Task Force (TFs) which will not be part of the initial release - they are a convenience for moving groups of naval units, and nothing more than that.

The major new item shown here is in the lower right side of the NRS form (on the right): Displays/Germany/Italy. The Germany display is being shown.

From the CW point of view (the blue colors indicate that the CW is the major power making decisions), the German threat to the CW convoys is being assessed. The 8 ports listed at the top of the NRS form are all controlled by Germany and are ports where the German player is likely to place naval units. Bremen is the only minor port shown, and that is because it is adjacent to the North Sea. The sea areas were chosen as ones where Germany is likely to have units. By clicking on any of the 16 column in the NRS form, the accompanying NRD form updates. Here it is showing the units in Kiel. The idea is that you can quickly see what units are in each of the German ports and threatened sea areas. The NRS form shows summary stats and the NRD form shows the actual units present in those location.

The CW might want to create a second 'display' for Germany, perhaps containing the sea areas in the central and souh Atlantic, for instance.




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Post #: 1907
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/25/2009 9:55:17 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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2nd in a series of 3 posts.

Here is the double sized global map that goes with the NRS and NRD forms shown in the previous post. I have only created NRS displays for Germany and Italy (shown in the next post) but clearly the CW will want more displays so it can monitor the different segments of its convoy pipelines. I figure at least one of the will be labeled Japan.

Most major powers will have only a couple of NRS displays. The exceptions are the CW, USA, and Japan, which might want to use a dozen or more. There is room for 21 NRS displays in the list.




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Post #: 1908
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/25/2009 9:56:34 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
The only missing piece is the Task Force (TFs) which will not be part of the initial release - they are a convenience for moving groups of naval units, and nothing more than that.

Sniff.... The world (in flames) will never be the same without the Task Forces...

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Post #: 1909
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/25/2009 10:08:42 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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3rd and last in the series.

Here is the Commonwealth's NRS display labelled Italy. It complements the Germany display in which sea areas are listed, with only a couple of duplicates. Notice that the NRS column for La Spezia matches the NRD unit data panel, which summarizes the units being displayed.

Setting up the displays from scratch is somewhat tedious, but once they are in place, they provide instant access to information on the fleet deployments of both your own units and also those of your enemy. Revising them is fairly easy too, if you don't like the decisions on what to display that were made by others.

The only missing information is what air units might fly into the various sea areas. I decided that would be very difficult to figure out and present coherently (what with flying at extended range, and determining which section boxes the air units can reach, etc.). Anyway, I have to leave some tasks for the players to perform. The difference between average players and expert players often lies in the figuring out stuff like that.

EDIT: corrected the screen shot.




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< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 10/25/2009 10:12:47 PM >


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Post #: 1910
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/26/2009 8:02:09 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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I created another Help form. This one explains the mouse and keyboard commands.




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Post #: 1911
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/26/2009 8:04:19 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Post 2 in a series of 3.

These aren't up to my usual quality standards. They're simply screenshots of the Players Manual. But I think they get the job done.




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Post #: 1912
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 10/26/2009 8:06:29 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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3rd and last in the series.

Maybe someday I will do a better/cleaner job on the presentation. What is important is that the code is now all in place and working. So if I do decide to redo the 'graphic', it will simply be a matter of changing the BMP file on disk; there won't be any need to modify the program.




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Post #: 1913
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 11/2/2009 8:47:12 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Here is an improved layout and wording for the explanation of the keyboard and mouse commands. I have changed this in the Players Manual and then took screen shots for the help pages that are available during game play.

1 of 3 posts.
===




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Post #: 1914
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 11/2/2009 8:48:17 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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As you can see, it was somewhat difficult to find a place for the 3 buttons that worked for each of these 3 pages.




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Post #: 1915
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 11/2/2009 8:54:47 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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3rd and last in a series of 3.

The only substantive changes were to the first page, where the explanation of Control Left Click for naval units was reworked. I have been fixing bugs related to this so I made sure that the Players Manual description of the action taken by the program matches what the code actually does.

Naval movement is more complex than land or air movement because of the possibility of:
(1) interception by enemy units,
(2) a digression to a naval combat due to #1,
(3) picking up land units from coastal hexes after ending the naval move in a sea area, and
(4) dropping off some of the naval units in the moving stack and then have the remaining naval units in the stack continue moving.




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Post #: 1916
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 11/21/2009 9:35:10 AM   
Neilster


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I've been experimenting...

Edit: I've improved these quite a bit.



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< Message edited by Neilster -- 11/22/2009 7:51:11 AM >

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Post #: 1917
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 11/21/2009 9:37:27 AM   
Neilster


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The Pacific Theatre






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< Message edited by Neilster -- 11/22/2009 7:52:52 AM >

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Post #: 1918
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 11/21/2009 9:47:59 AM   
Neilster


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I someone puts up a global map with units on it (if that's possible and perhaps without the sea area labels), maybe from a Global War scenario in about 1942/43, I'll make a spherical map and generate images from it. That should look pretty cool, with the Eastern Front and Japanese empire etc.

Edit: Actually, it would be better if you send me a message and I'll give you my email address. Then you can send me a PNG file or something else non-lossy. This will improve the end result.

Cheers, Neilster


< Message edited by Neilster -- 11/22/2009 5:23:57 AM >

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Post #: 1919
RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 11/21/2009 6:55:49 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

I someone puts up a global map with units on it (if that's possible and perhaps without the sea area labels), maybe from a Global War scenario in about 1942/43, I'll make a spherical map and generate images from it. That should look pretty cool, with the Eastern Front and Japanese empire etc.

Cheers, Neilster


Cute.

Hopefully one of the beta testers can do that for you soon.

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Post #: 1920
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