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Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 7:48:30 AM   
Star Ranger

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/27/2009
Status: offline 		I've played several games now and its clear the economy needs a boost. There should not be so much "desperation" on trying to make ends meet with the economy. I've found with medium maps - once your empire gets to be 7 or more stars economy takes a bigger bite of your effort. Around 12 stars and you almost can't declare war without haivng all your planets well developed.

Also - what is missing is the benefit of trade missions - what benefot to they give your economy and how much long term benefit.

Post #: 1
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 8:00:08 AM   
kafka

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 6/11/2004
Status: offline 		I don't think so, boosting the economy would probably break the game balance on the strategic layer and make the game way too easy (an boring in the long run like SE5). I think, you just have to understand the game mechanics - which are in my exes well balanced. It is challenging to keep your economy running, as it should be

< Message edited by kafka -- 11/27/2009 8:07:44 AM >

(in reply to Star Ranger)
Post #: 2
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 8:22:27 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I thought the point of the trade mission was that it gave the owner of the planet tax and customs revenue. Of course, they also let the owner of the mission spy on the planet, so I normally don't bother with them.

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Post #: 3
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 8:50:13 AM   
Janster

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 2/19/2004
Status: offline 		Economy is fine, its those races with unrest penalties, they just can't hack it, my Klugs do very well financially...and they are calm to boot :)

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 4
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 10:59:23 AM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline 		Its not that hard really. Just dont build everything everywhere and dont play humans.

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(in reply to Janster)
Post #: 5
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 11:59:28 AM   
killroyishere

 

Posts: 639
Joined: 4/23/2008
Status: offline 		Economy schomonomy play the game and pass it around 99 games of Armada on the wall. Hrmmm thas not Armada on the wall looks more like Ameretta? (hic)

(in reply to Zakhal)
Post #: 6
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 1:03:29 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		My eonomy is fine. Ive got plus 8k and enough coming in playing the humans. If I was the devs I wouldn't go changing anything yet.

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Post #: 7
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 1:52:50 PM   
Aroddo


Posts: 125
Joined: 11/7/2009
Status: offline 		Try the Hoon Yoon race if you have problems with the economy.
Their bonuses make them very resistant to riots, so you can crank up taxes to max for most of the time.
Turn some planets into low-tax "Breeding Pits" and use shuttles to populate your heavily taxed, slow-growth colonies.

This strategy works exceedingly well for the HoonYoon.

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Post #: 8
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 2:13:55 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I have no problem with my economy as Humans.

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Post #: 9
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 2:14:28 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		A good tip is to not build everything everywhere. Not every planet needs a shipyard, for one thing.

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Post #: 10
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 2:19:28 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		You have to choose your colonies more carefully as Humans and plan your building to keep income up and unrest down. As you develop better terraforming/atmosphere technologies, you can colonize other planets and still keep things running well. I think that the concerns express by the original poster about the economy are more an issue of needing a bit more practice than a real game problem. I also had trouble in my first couple of games, but after more experience with the game I have had no issues keeping my economy running well.

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(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 11
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 2:25:06 PM   
Janster

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 2/19/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, if you don't build mines beyond the first stages and don't expand beyond 10 planets, your fine...most likely...


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 12
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 2:55:30 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		I agree. Be selective where you build shipyards.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

A good tip is to not build everything everywhere. Not every planet needs a shipyard, for one thing.



_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 13
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 3:06:59 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Janster
Yes, if you don't build mines beyond the first stages and don't expand beyond 10 planets, your fine...most likely...


You can certainly build larger mines and have more planets. You might consider "mining planets" though and you could also put more security, entertainment and a larger garrison there than usual to keep the miners happier.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 14
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 3:28:17 PM   
Aroddo


Posts: 125
Joined: 11/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

I agree. Be selective where you build shipyards.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

A good tip is to not build everything everywhere. Not every planet needs a shipyard, for one thing.




What they say. Specialize.

Read that to see how to take colony specialization to it's extremes: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2304122

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Post #: 15
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 6:31:39 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		The only way I can manage the human economy is to avoid building mines. Mines send them into unrest way too easily. With humans, you really come to value systems with asteroids and oort clouds, because those can be developed without penalty. As I've said elsewhere, I don't like the humans much in this game and consider them a hard mode race.

Trade is huge. I've had some empires bringing in over 5000 credits a turn from that, which is no joke. A trade mission to a high pop world can bring in up to 150 credits net each turn, even after paying custom duties. The key here is to make sure you send trade missions to such worlds. 30 pop seems to be about the break even point where revenue covers duty, and after that it is all profit. In 10 turns or less you will pay off the initial 1000 credit investment and it's all gravy after that.

What's harder is convincing the AI to establish missions in your own worlds. They don't seem to be very aggressive about establishing trade missions with you. If you can get them to do it, make sure it's on a colony where you can afford to spare the space for the mission. (Poor worlds are great for this.)

If you want races with easier economics, look for those without unrest penalties, with the bureaucracy bonus, or the Crylons (who get a 20% mining income bonus). The Crylons and Walden are strong on economics. The Walden, in fact, are in my opinion the best race in the game in the larger maps, but they don't lend themselves to an extermination playstyle due to the VP penalty they incur from killing pop. Once they get assimilation techs they can blitzrieg like crazy, however, and absorb enemy empires.  

(in reply to Aroddo)
Post #: 16
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/27/2009 7:11:40 PM   
Aroddo


Posts: 125
Joined: 11/7/2009
Status: offline 		currently playing the AROM, who have the same unrest modificator as the humans. it's still an early game but i manage by building only the level 1 mine (and asteroid/comet mines). higher level mines can only be maintained on planets with a good environment, else unrest ensues.



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Post #: 17
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/28/2009 4:23:49 AM   
Star Ranger

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/27/2009
Status: offline 		I've been playing on normal and easy mode and still having money issues - I've been able to figure out avoiding bankruptcy - but other races have it way too easy to have larger empires and not have economic issues.

I'd recommend lowering the rebellion penalty for Humans and increasing the base economy for an empire - you shouldn't have to have trade missions to keep your economy afloat.

(in reply to Aroddo)
Post #: 18
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/28/2009 5:15:25 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I don't spam trade missions to "keep my economy afloat." I spam them to make big bucks. Several thousand credits a turn in trade revenue does wonders for your economy.

Star Ranger, try the other races out, I think you're judging the game solely on the basis of its worst race. There's a lot of variety in this game, and out of 12 races only two of them are lemons.

(in reply to Star Ranger)
Post #: 19
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/28/2009 10:28:31 AM   
Iceman

 

Posts: 239
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
Trade is huge. I've had some empires bringing in over 5000 credits a turn from that, which is no joke. A trade mission to a high pop world can bring in up to 150 credits net each turn, even after paying custom duties. The key here is to make sure you send trade missions to such worlds. 30 pop seems to be about the break even point where revenue covers duty, and after that it is all profit. In 10 turns or less you will pay off the initial 1000 credit investment and it's all gravy after that.


Last time I checked, trade missions would give you $3.5 per pop in the target system. They're only usefull in large pop systems of course, but then again, you don't want those worlds spied on - and so shouldn't the AI.


(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 20
RE: Economy needs a boost - 11/28/2009 10:44:37 AM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Star Ranger

I've been playing on normal and easy mode and still having money issues - I've been able to figure out avoiding bankruptcy - but other races have it way too easy to have larger empires and not have economic issues.

I'd recommend lowering the rebellion penalty for Humans and increasing the base economy for an empire - you shouldn't have to have trade missions to keep your economy afloat.



I have 120000 kredits and 0 rebellious planets with humans in my current second game on normal difficulty. Perhaps you are doing somthing wrong? I had bankruptcy too in my first game with humans but not after that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iceman
Last time I checked, trade missions would give you $3.5 per pop in the target system. They're only usefull in large pop systems of course, but then again, you don't want those worlds spied on - and so shouldn't the AI.


I have given most of my trade missions to my allies and so far they havent backstabbed me yet. I havent sent any mission only accepted and even then I havent accepted all. I didnt accept any from those I planned to invade in near future.

During first missions I even checked what planets they wanted it in. But since trade mission gives +1 happiness on planet due to trade goods currently I have started to accept almost all missions. Its a big bonus for humans.

I have noticed that the AIs somtimes ask trade missions second time to the same planet of theirs as before. It seems they deleted my trade mission on their planet or it was destroyed by other means and they want it back.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 11/28/2009 10:48:49 AM >

_____________________________

"99.9% of all internet arguments are due to people not understanding someone else's point. The other 0.1% is arguing over made up statistics."- unknown poster
"Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it."– Edmund Burke

(in reply to Iceman)
Post #: 21
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