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RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/2/2009 6:04:32 AM   
Frasse

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/16/2009
Status: offline 		Yeah that they should do, that would make things easier, or they could put a ceiling, meaning patrols or escorts under a certain height will strafe.
Another questions about moral. As mentioned some of my fighter units got chewed up by flak and my bomber units are taking losses all the time. How long do I have to wait for a unit to reach a moral level from 50 to let say 65? The losses have already been replaced but the moral is still low.

Frasse


(in reply to mikkey)
Post #: 31
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/2/2009 4:40:50 PM   
TechSgt

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Frasse

Yeah that they should do, that would make things easier, or they could put a ceiling, meaning patrols or escorts under a certain height will strafe.
Another questions about moral. As mentioned some of my fighter units got chewed up by flak and my bomber units are taking losses all the time. How long do I have to wait for a unit to reach a moral level from 50 to let say 65? The losses have already been replaced but the moral is still low.

Frasse



Frasse;

It depends!

Who is the commander, how many days rest has the unit had, has the unit flown a Successful mission, etc?

Some units are almost unbreakable and some units are... a bit tougher to deal with.

TS



(in reply to Frasse)
Post #: 32
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/2/2009 7:55:37 PM   
Golden Bear

 

Posts: 190
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		As TS says, there are a lot of variables and one of them seems to be that some units just won't improve morale very much.

But here's some things that help:
Wait at least 4 days between missions. I know they recover fatigue after 3 but doing raids every three days wears them down morale wise.
If a unit had a really shattering mission, just let it sit and monitor its morale. It will recover to a point and then plateau off. Then send it on a very short and safe mission, somewhere just across the Channel perhaps. Give it good rest. Do it again. It will improve to a point.

(in reply to TechSgt)
Post #: 33
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/7/2009 5:08:18 AM   
artuitus_slith

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 11/22/2009
Status: offline 		in a fs there is a way to avoid some of your units from strafing the af-set them to high cover and they wont strafe the af. hope this helps

(in reply to mikkey)
Post #: 34
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/7/2009 2:27:53 PM   
Golden Bear

 

Posts: 190
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		A FS seems LESS likely to go on a random AF strafe if it is targeted to a specific AF... but will still do it sometimes.

The only way I've found is to route the path away from enemy AFs. But they will still wander quite a bit to go hit them.

Carlos

(in reply to artuitus_slith)
Post #: 35
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/8/2009 1:22:42 AM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		Another noob question.Great game by the way.Im currently playing ED as Axis.Any tips?What is good altitude?How many escorts for each bomber group?Should escorts leave after bombers as they fly faster?Should fighters do sweep on area being bombed?Thanks for any tips and advice.

< Message edited by bairdlander -- 12/8/2009 1:25:39 AM >

(in reply to Golden Bear)
Post #: 36
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/10/2009 2:50:26 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Another noob question.Great game by the way.Im currently playing ED as Axis.Any tips?What is good altitude?How many escorts for each bomber group?Should escorts leave after bombers as they fly faster?Should fighters do sweep on area being bombed?Thanks for any tips and advice.


that is a HARD one, it all depends, depends on who you are playing, the AI or a player, what you are trying to do, what you need to do

remember, the Med's are not B-17s with Norten sites, so, they should be lower, how low, depends on you or what you need

14-18 is good (also, remember, the RAF is better Med to Low, while the LW fighters are better Med to Hi)

escort alt is up to you, for me, I like to put 110s on close, and 109s above them, normally I go 4 K above, if I sent a lot of fighters, then I will put the Stabs at 6, with maybe another Gruppen hanging at 8, prefect world and all, the RAF comes in, bounces off of the 110s, and then the 109s bounce the RAF, of course, what then happens is the RAF gets in and hits the bombers, slap the 110s that try to interfer, the 109s miss the bounce, get below the RAF, who then bounce the missed bounce

but, that is how I set it up (I do like to try to keep a JG to a raid, so if I am sending out 100 88's, I will send a full JG (I/II/III/Stab JG26)

which that can then be set up, based on how long the mission is, is the mission importent, is the mission to draw off the RAF (I mean a raid that is set up to be bait, can have a lot more fighters, as it wants to draw in fighters)

delay take offs can help, but depends on the reason, and how much of a delay is needed, it is better to stagger the escort, then to have all of it take off on delay, just in case

so like a raid to Deben, 110s take off with the bombers, a Gruppen of 109s at 4 or 5 minutes, and then the rest about each 2 minutes afterward (each)

most times does not much good to join up with the raid when it is coming back, you want to join as it is still heading forward

sweeps

those are kind of odd, if you sweep a blank spot, most times the AI will leave them alone, you do not really want to sweep something with a lot of AA, or over fly many targets (fighters love balloons)

now, if the target is a airfield, it is going to drop down to 500-1000 ft and attack the base (and maybe catch some planes on the field, and take AA fire)

it will then patrol around the sweep target (a 2ndary patrol can be set for Sweeps)

sweep fighters, will patrol until they hit bingo fuel, but, they also go to full fuel burn, so the 109 does not have long legs to start with, but once it goes to full burn, it's end will be cut by 3/4ths (110's by design, can not sweep)

a sweep in the right place at the right time, can be deadly, but it can also get hammered HARD

and for what it is worth, I don't get told when someone posts up here, so I don't always know there are questions floating around

_____________________________


(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 37
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/11/2009 12:38:03 AM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		Thanks for the tips.Currently 3rd day of long campaign BoB.I start the day by doing recon on targets more than 2 days without photos,then fighter sweep the targets,then bomb runs.I've been concentrating on UK radar.I've done 99 damage to approx 10 stations.Final question I have is re radar.Created a gap up to Birmingham from the coast by destroying the radar stations and see that the white circles are gone as well as the red.I know these circles represent where radar can find my planes but why are some red and some white?Does red represent the individual stations and white is total of stations grouped together?

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 38
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/11/2009 1:54:50 AM   
simovitch


Posts: 5488
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		white is for CH (Chain Home, High radar) detects anything coming in at 3000' or higher.
red is for CHL (Chain Home Low, low radar) detects anything coming in down to 500'

Easy way to remember is white has "hi" in it.


_____________________________

simovitch


(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 39
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/19/2009 2:01:13 AM   
nico71


Posts: 121
Joined: 9/2/2003
Status: offline 		The night bombing campaign appears to be very interesting. Is there any information available regarding the electronic warfare devices used in the game and how to use them properly?

(in reply to mikkey)
Post #: 40
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/24/2009 3:41:33 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		ahhh, that is kind of HARD to discribe

Elint is passive, it reads enemy Radar signals, which may speed up counter devices

Jammers, jam, either Ground or Air radar (mainly for the game, each Jammer has a main target, with a 2ndary chance for others)

(in real life, a lot of the Jammers were comm jammers, that side is taking over by the Code, if you ever notice how HARD it can be to keep a Night fighter locked onto a target, that is the comm jammer breaking lock)

Window, I have added a small device, Windows, which will effect ground and air radar, at very short range, there is also code that works to show the overall effect (the Elint planes would use Window as a decoy, dropping massive amounts, to try and look like it was a much larger raid

Detectors, some devices detect, other devices, which helps them to pin point a target

(real life, the LW could detect H2S, H2X, Gee, Monacia)

Homers, go one step father then the Detector, they actively home in on the device they match up to

each of the radars get better, and each has a jammer set to counter it, so a 202 is a good basic set, but Windows effects it badly, 212 will be HARDer to jam, confuse, but still will, 220 will not be jammed by basic windows (still a small chance as a 2ndary radar)

which, that is where sets like Mandrel, ABC, Jostle come in (Jostle is really more of a comm jammer, but has other effects)

for the RCM planes, a single plane has a chance to shut down ground radar it is with in range of, also air radar, but, does not do a good job of it, 2 planes, or 3 planes, have a much better chance

a stream has the best chance of shutting down anything in the area around the stream

which all in all, RCM can be great, the hassle is, you will never have enough of them to do what you really need or want to do

overall, Mandrel can not be made to work the way it really did, you would make a wall, and the LW couldn't see past the jammers, you just had dead space, which out of the blue, you would get massive contacts, coming out of it (along with the Elint/Decoy planes) one headed one way, the other going another, both dumping large amounts of window, making the radar screens, light up with a solid mass of contacts, some times, the decoy force would break the wall first, sometimes it came out 2nd, and some times the LW picked the wrong mass, and losses would be very light, other times they guessed right, and then it depended on the skill of the pilots and controllers as to how they did

one mission type, which they didn't like, was a double, the decoy would break the wall, head towards a target, drop some flares and bombs, and then fly back to the wall, shut down there gear, and then loter behind the wall, then at a set time, head on back, turn on there gear and break the wall a 2nd time, the crews felt this should count as a double mission, but High Command said, one take off, one landing is a mission


(One trick I liked, that the LW came up with, they couldn't break the Mandrel screen, but, they could detect the English radar signals, and since the English radar would be seeing Allied planes flying, the LW could tell when something was up, by seeing that the English signals were being bounced back, so, they were able to use the English Radar, to tell if there were planes in the air, when there radar couldn't see it)




_____________________________


(in reply to nico71)
Post #: 41
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/24/2009 3:50:05 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		just in case

Window was interesting, it was both good and bad, it basicly worked as it made so many contacts, you couldn't pick out the real target, but, it also lit up the radar screens from all over, telling you where the raid was at

most times, since Window floats when it is dropped, you dropping Window, does not protect you, it protects the guys in back of you, if the guys ahead of you, are doing there job, you may be protected, but, Window does not move like a plane does, once you knew what you where looking at, you can disreguard the bad contacts

combat, in the long run, was still the mark one eyeball, the fancy devices gave you a chance to get with in range of that eyeball

_____________________________


(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 42
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/24/2009 4:11:49 PM   
JapLance


Posts: 133
Joined: 11/30/2002
From: Mallorca, Spain
Status: offline 		This is from TOH Readme:
quote:

(3) ELECTRONIC WARFARE IN 12 O'Clock High - Electronic warfare devices can be found on
various aircraft and perform various functions. Below is a list of each device and a brief
description of its function. The "effectiveness" sections gives you an indication of the
performance differences between the different devices.

Naxos - radar detector, carried by German Night Fighters
Used to home in on H2S radar, which is commonly carried by British pathfinder bombers.
max detection range: 10 miles
effectiveness: 50

FuG 202 - aircraft radar, earliest version of the German airborne radar
Airborne radar fitted in Axis night-fighters.
max detection range: 2 miles
effectiveness: 8* [the asterisks (*) indicates that this radar's effectiveness is
greatly reduced by 'Window', which were clouds of aluminum strips used to jam Axis
search radar.]

FuG 212 - aircraft radar
Similar to FuG 202, improved range and effectiveness.
max detection range: 2.5 miles
effectiveness: 9*

FuG 220 SN-2 - aircraft radar
Airborne radar fitted in Axis night-fighters. Immune to jamming by 'Window'.
max detection range: 4 miles
effectiveness: 40

FuG 240 Berlin - aircraft radar
derived from a captured H2S radar. Immune to jamming by 'Window'.
max detection range: 5 miles
effectiveness: 50
[Note: Not available until 1945]

AI Mk.IV - aircraft radar
Airborne radar fitted in Allied night-fighters.
max detection range: 3 miles
effectiveness: 30

AI Mk.VII - aircraft radar
Airborne radar fitted in Allied night-fighters.
max detection range: 4 miles
effectiveness: 40

AI Mk.X - aircraft radar
Airborne radar fitted in Allied night-fighters.
max detection range: 9 miles
effectiveness: 50

H2S - aircraft navigation radar
Airborne ground-mapping radar fitted in British pathfinder bombers.
effectiveness: 55

H2X - aircraft navigation radar
Airborne ground-mapping radar fitted in American pathfinder bombers.
effectiveness: 60

Oboe - aircraft navigation system
Airborne navigation system using radio beams for precision bombing in poor visibility.
max range: 300 miles from friendly base (the beams are actually projected from the airfield
and are effective only within the indicated miles; any aircraft performing missions outside
their Oboe range will not benefit from the navigation system).
effectiveness: 65

Serrate - radar detector
Used to home in on FuG 212 radar.
Somewhat effective against other airborne radars.
max detection range: 10 miles
effectiveness: 50 vs FuG 212 (10 vs other airborne radars)

Serrate IV - radar detector
Used to home in on FuG 220 SN-2 radar.
Also effective against other airborne radars.
max detection range: 10 miles
effectiveness: 50 vs FuG 220 (40 vs other airborne radars)

Jostle - radio jammer
Used to jam radio frequencies used by Axis ground controllers directing night-fighter
interceptions.
max range: 100 miles
effectiveness: 20
[Note: If a night fighter is within 100 miles from a unit with Jostle radio jammers,
its communication ability might be jammed, and you will lose control of the unit
for as long as the jamming is in effect.]

Mandrel - radar jammer
Used to jam radar frequencies used by Axis ground search radars.
max range: 100 miles
effectiveness: 20
[Note: Effective use of these jammers is represented on the map with small red circles
appearing around Axis radar stations.]

Piperack - radar jammer
Used to jam FuG 220 SN-2 airborne radar.
Also effective against other airborne radars.
max range: 20 miles
effectiveness: 15 vs FuG 220 (10 vs other airborne radars)

ELINT receivers - radio intelligence equipment
Used to gather information on Axis radio and radar transmissions.
Such information eventually led to development of devices to jam radars and disrupt Axis
communications.
max range: 100 miles
effectiveness: 25

Where does Electronic Warfare Come Into Play Most Often in BTR? Although electronic warfare
is used throughout all the campaigns in BTR, it's most significant in the Nachtjagd
Scenarios dealing with Bomber Command and German night fighters. Especially during
Nachtjagd III, you will have the opportunity to use all of your aircrafts' radar devices to
their full extent.



_____________________________

Greetings from Spain.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 43
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/26/2009 11:39:32 PM   
nico71


Posts: 121
Joined: 9/2/2003
Status: offline 		Thanks for the answers! The Nachtjagd topic really got me hooked. I spend a lot of time reading now, but little if any time playing! LOL! Talk about a study sim here! 

(in reply to JapLance)
Post #: 44
RE: Questions from "green" players - 12/27/2009 8:03:11 PM   
artuitus_slith

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 11/22/2009
Status: offline 		well thanks for the info on RCM craft-good info to know.

I have been trying diffrent tactics with differing success to bomb the rhur (spelling?) with day bombers in 43. I have found that the AI tends to overreact to early raids meaning my bombers get to the target fairly intact just by launching them 45min or so after the opening raids on af/radar stations. Plan was going perfect-hit a fuel factory with good results outside of essen with no losses enroute, and lost only 3 bombers on the way out....Until one of my b24J units decided to go sightseeing around germany and attempted to intercept a group of FW190a6-i applaud thier bravery but if they had stayed with the other bombers and covering force the a6's would have been chewed up-instead i lost 16 b24s from that one group. that was 3/4 of all my bomber losses that day-total of 24 planes lost-6 to ground fire 2 from enemy fighters attacking the main group and of course 16 lost from that one group:( So i guess my question is- is this a 'bug' or was it just due to the inexperience of the group, ie they got seperated and lost? Even being lost doesnt explain them turning back to the target area after dropping bombs apx 20 min later, or flying around in circles like they were patroling enemy airspace themselves

(in reply to nico71)
Post #: 45
RE: Questions from "green" players - 1/2/2010 2:46:19 AM   
marcus488

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 1/1/2010
Status: offline 		Hello all started playing the 1943 camp. So on dec1 43 score is at 28 points 14 in terror,3 air S., and 11 IND.
6 WEEKS LATER IVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO LUNCH A RAID DUE TOO 1OO% CLOUD COVER! IS THE RIGHT?
**** MY SCORE IS NOW -1 IN IND,AIR S. 2 AND TERROR STILL AT 14 WTF! NOW I KNOW THERE CAN BE TIMES OF BAD WEATHER BUT DAM!
6 WEEKS !!!!!! IS THIS A BUG? {Oh been playing the 8th airforce with the comp controling everything else, he cant lunch a raid either.
The 12th has been able to get so raids in but not many.Should i start a new game? lol hope not as ive put alot of time into this 1. Thanks and happy new year!

(in reply to artuitus_slith)
Post #: 46
RE: Questions from "green" players - 1/4/2010 2:14:41 PM   
Jeldren

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 10/21/2009
Status: offline 		The weather is bad at the end of 1943 most of the time - but it should be much better at the start of 1944. You still should be able to get some raids out even if the weather is bad at 4:30. Just launch them at 13:00 and cross your fingers. My score at the end of january 1944 was 2 AS, 17 IND and 18 Terror.

(in reply to marcus488)
Post #: 47
RE: Questions from "green" players - 1/6/2010 6:02:28 PM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline 		A little question, i am playing avalanche scen and see FUEL in the airfiedls... what means??? only airfields with fuel can support units or when i base an unit in an airfield it appear??? and what is the impact if the value is 0 and i have units based in the airfield???

Thanks.

(in reply to Jeldren)
Post #: 48
RE: Questions from "green" players - 1/7/2010 4:25:04 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		each sortie flown uses 1 point of fuel (per engine?).
for each unit you base on an A/F the A/F will get up to 100 fuel....up to a max of 400 fuel per A/F
fuel will arrive the turn after you have based a unit on it......you can use this to give A/Fs you will probably use in future some fuel

If you have used up all fuel an an A/F you cannot longer fly from that a/f - this can happen, because you overstuffed the A/F and flew too many missions....or an enemy tactical strike has destroyed some fuel on the a/f

_____________________________


(in reply to Hexagon)
Post #: 49
RE: Questions from "green" players - 1/7/2010 6:07:08 PM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks for the information, now i can use Falcos and Arietes in a better role (for their pilots at least hehehe) than fighter dividers  and of course, can leave the dangerous top of the boot.



(in reply to wernerpruckner)
Post #: 50
RE: Questions from "green" players - 1/7/2010 11:57:33 PM   
Golden Bear

 

Posts: 190
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		It is "Working As Designed." Part of the reason that I like the '44 campaign. I'm surprised you got to December before complaining. Ususally I can't get a raid off the ground from late October until sometime in January.

Don't worry about the score at this point too much (except for sudden death, of course). You are building up your units of P51s and such so that in Mid February you can hopefully start busting on the Luftwaffe.

(in reply to marcus488)
Post #: 51
Some Questions - 2/3/2010 12:48:43 PM   
Guitar Oldie

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 2/3/2010
Status: offline 		Hi, played the old version of BTR a lot, now bought the new version, got a few questions:

1. Is it still possible to accelerate the arrival date of new models by dedicating assembly/parts/engines early towards newer models (German player)?
2. I'm still in August 1943 and while the daylight defense works fine, the night fight is a nightmare: no fight at all! Although I mass lots of Groups as  patrols in the in/outbound flight route and over the target, almost no contact. Maybe 3-5 interceptions per night with 200-300 fighters in the air. I know of the effect of Windows during that time period, but even my "wildboar" units don't make contacts?!? Any tactical hints?
3. In the old game I could change all my axis units (Italians, Romanians..) to any kind of planetyp I liked to, but now no more. Will this change during the game or do I really have to produce inferior planes to keep them in the game?
4. Why I can't change the altitude of patrols already being in the air? Or can I? They had fighter control officers on the ground and leaders in the air, who surely got an intelligence update from ground control or shadowing planes!? That is especially annoying by night, when there is a constant need to identify the way of the bomber stream.
Great game by the way, stopped playing my other games and concentrate entirely on BTR!

(in reply to mikkey)
Post #: 52
RE: Some Questions - 3/1/2010 11:36:13 PM   
vimconfused

 

Posts: 71
Joined: 2/9/2010
From: London, UK
Status: offline 		Following on from an earlier question in this thread, its about a behaviour I've only really started noticing since I came up against the P-51Bs in Northern Europe. Basically my fighters ordered to attack escorts (and with bounce fighter doctrine) appear to be making far fewer attacks on the escorts. A lot of them also seem to end up hitting the bombers, but the escorts are getting bounced far less than I managed against any other type of escort before this. I dunno if its because I'm seeing a vast number of escorts in one place (often far more than the bombers with them), but still I'm not bouncing them, but they are regularly bouncing the fighters I'm sending against them!

(in reply to Guitar Oldie)
Post #: 53
RE: Some Questions - 8/13/2010 1:35:07 PM   
nicwb

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 4/26/2010
Status: offline 		Hi

definitely looking for some assistance or tips.

I'm playing the "Avalanche" scenario as the allies against the AI. I'm doing OK (I think) against the axis fighters and most of the ground targets EXCEPT (big exception) targetting the troop formations. No matter how hard i hit them I can't seem to make a significant dent. I've concentrated on striking the 26th PzG Div. I score hits (mainly on the armor) and cause some disruption but can't seem to force them back. I've used heavies, mediums and fighter bombers - with only slight results.

How hard/long do I have to go in. BTW I have also KO'ed the nearby railway hubs - so it can't be that (can it?).

Any hints or tips gratefully received.

(in reply to vimconfused)
Post #: 54
RE: Some Questions - 8/13/2010 7:32:17 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		as soon as the troops are in their defensive lines, it is extremly hard to force them back.
especially with single line defensive lines (HS was able to break through the Normandy lines...but those are double lines)

the high stock of AFV and artillery, that you cannot stop flowing in ( you only can slow it down) is an extra "bonus"

Concentrate to turn all RRs red and force his Luftwaffe back as far as possible.


_____________________________


(in reply to nicwb)
Post #: 55
RE: Some Questions - 8/15/2010 7:40:52 AM   
nicwb

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 4/26/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks Swift,

My last turn went a bit better - my mediums got some impressive results aginst the 26thPzG and forced their disruption up.

But then most of my FB's let me down and "couldn't locate the target" ! (How can you "Not find" an entire division ??!!)

Oh well, FOW I guess - and back to the pounding.

(in reply to wernerpruckner)
Post #: 56
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