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Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the com... - 11/30/2009 8:40:50 AM   
Wade1000


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Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the company your wish list.

-A continually improving AI that is able to competently use all new features and technologies.

-High technology to include population bases beyond planetary such as orbitals/halos, ringworlds, and sphereworlds;the ability to both create and destroy the planets, population bases, and stars.
-----
-Another way to address any potential bureaucracy issues might be to adjust the benefits of current bonus structures and/or add more bonuses or structures throughout the technology tree.

Having a different bureaucracy game setting that scales for larger galaxies is NOT appealing to me.
-----
-Maybe there should be more technology and upgrade bonuses throughout the technology tree to solve any potential problems. For example, over population could be solved with arcologies and further upgrades to happiness structures.
I think that every empire problem should be able to be resolved, to a fair extent, eventually, through the use of technology.

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Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.
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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 9:37:52 AM   
nukkxx5058


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- internet multi player and PBEM
- customizable ship (MOO-like)
- advanced enocomics with lots of macroeconomic indicators

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 10:00:37 AM   
Zakhal


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I have nothing against new techs to solve problems but I dont like the idea of needing to build 2-3 new buildings for all the the planets in the galaxy. It adds lots of new micromanagement and too much of that might ruin the flow of the game.

I would like a more elegant solutions like central management for star groups. Build a central management building for one star and it decreases burocray in all nearby stars.

Overpopulation needs som more imagination (ability for transports to unload into space?) but I dont want to build houses for all planets in the galaxy. Thats just too much. Have to think more once I get home.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 11/30/2009 10:40:49 AM >


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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 10:27:59 AM   
siRkid


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1. Characters that have different stats that can be assigned to govern a planet.
2. A re-roll option so if you don't like the map you can get another random map witout having to enter in all the set-up info again.

< Message edited by Kid -- 11/30/2009 10:48:29 AM >


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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 10:42:32 AM   
nukkxx5058


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- internal politics

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 11:16:18 AM   
kafka

 

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quote:

I think that every empire problem should be able to be resolved, to a fair extent, eventually, through the use of technology.


I think thats the right approach. Yes, setting limits to expansion is the right concept, but give the player the means to move up those limits, i.e. by researching the corresponding technology

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 1:39:32 PM   
ShotmanMaslo

 

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I have already posted this somewhere, but stick it here too so its not forgotten:

1. naming ships/stations/planets - more RPG elements, experience levels...
2. asteroid fields, nebulaes and "space weather" that have some interesting tactical effects, not just movement
3. minor races like in GalCiv 2, new minor races appearing midgame too
4. space minefields, minelayers, minesweepers (..no, not uugh..)
6. giant space stations
7. make economy and empire bureucracy power control easier, I wanna rule and conquer, not fear of bankrupts, revolutions or internal political problems always.. I would like less (or no more) complexity in economy and internal empire management and more complexity in combat and tactical possibilities, and diplomacy.. In reality I would outsource things like planetary budget balancing and population control to my governors

For features inspiration, just look at other games - Space Empires 5, it has lots of them, just implement them correctly AI-wise..

..and more moddability never hurts.. - advanced game editors I mean..

< Message edited by ShotmanMaslo -- 11/30/2009 1:58:21 PM >


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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 1:46:46 PM   
ShotmanMaslo

 

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Hotseat tactical combat - one player issues orders, pauses the game, switches to another player, unpause (doesnt have to..) he issues orders, repeat if needed.. just switching hotseat players if needed, when game is paused might be more fun than just computed results..

< Message edited by ShotmanMaslo -- 11/30/2009 1:47:19 PM >


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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 2:11:06 PM   
ShotmanMaslo

 

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and of course, space monsters/wildlife (can be guided by feromones to attack enemy..) sorry for spamming

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 4:42:26 PM   
Flaviusx


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The game definitely needs more technological options to deal with demographic, economic, and bureaucratic issues. I particularly question the realism of overpopulation in this context: a sufficiently techonologically advanced race should be able to manage their pop, the game takes a rather relentlessly Malthusian approach to this issue. Yet, in real life, there is such a thing as demographic transition. Most rich countries are below replacement rate (and some of them are indeed looking at a population crunch in the future).

A wealthy, advanced society doesn't just keep multiplying ad infinitum until they reach soylent green numbers and then riot back to the stone age.

There's something odd about a game that encourages the creation of so called Gulag planets as a means to manage population issues.  










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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 5:07:39 PM   
Tom_Holsinger

 

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I request a new feature of a space combat resolution option to "Watch" your AI control your fleet against the enemy, in addition to the abstract Auto, but with the player able to give the "End Battle" command to speed things up when a battle is obviously won by one side or the other.  This would be very helpful in learning the tactical space combat system.

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 5:29:13 PM   
Iceman

 

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You have that option in battle already. There's an AI toggle button, and a End Battle button.

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 6:25:00 PM   
Tom_Holsinger

 

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Thanks. I knew about End Battle, but not AI control.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iceman

You have that option in battle already. There's an AI toggle button, and a End Battle button.


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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 8:26:13 PM   
ShotmanMaslo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The game definitely needs more technological options to deal with demographic, economic, and bureaucratic issues. I particularly question the realism of overpopulation in this context: a sufficiently techonologically advanced race should be able to manage their pop, the game takes a rather relentlessly Malthusian approach to this issue. Yet, in real life, there is such a thing as demographic transition. Most rich countries are below replacement rate (and some of them are indeed looking at a population crunch in the future).

A wealthy, advanced society doesn't just keep multiplying ad infinitum until they reach soylent green numbers and then riot back to the stone age.

There's something odd about a game that encourages the creation of so called Gulag planets as a means to manage population issues.


Quoted for truth.


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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 8:32:45 PM   
Aurelian

 

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Group planets into regions and appoint a viceroy. Possibly they could try and sieze the throne. (played alot of Annals of Rome where army commanders could do just that.)

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 9:02:29 PM   
Zakhal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Group planets into regions and appoint a viceroy. Possibly they could try and sieze the throne. (played alot of Annals of Rome where army commanders could do just that.)

Excellent idea. The viceroy could be one of those rpg characters that could also command ships and other things and gain exp.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The game definitely needs more technological options to deal with demographic, economic, and bureaucratic issues. I particularly question the realism of overpopulation in this context: a sufficiently techonologically advanced race should be able to manage their pop, the game takes a rather relentlessly Malthusian approach to this issue. Yet, in real life, there is such a thing as demographic transition. Most rich countries are below replacement rate (and some of them are indeed looking at a population crunch in the future).

A wealthy, advanced society doesn't just keep multiplying ad infinitum until they reach soylent green numbers and then riot back to the stone age.

There's something odd about a game that encourages the creation of so called Gulag planets as a means to manage population issues.


This is what I think about overpopulation too.

And I think they should add more uses for the colonists. Somthing like "colonist sinks" i.e recruting ground troops could reduce population. Or if you loose militia in battle that would reduce population too. Population would be more of a useful resource of its own than just a walking timebomb as its now.




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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 9:12:25 PM   
PDiFolco

 

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One of my biggest gripe with GC2 was that to satisfy your people, you were better off genociding them by loading transports with millions ppl and dropping them in space than trying to give them a better environment   - I imagine ppl rejoicing because their family and friends had been exterminated !
It's a totally false concept, based on nothing real, the crowded Chinese aren't less happy than the Arabic tribes of the desert.

So please offer stg else in Armada !!

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 9:16:31 PM   
Flaviusx


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Ironically, the Chinese themselves are looking at a population crunch down the line. They perhaps succeeded too well.


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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 9:51:19 PM   
ShotmanMaslo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx
- customizable ship (MOO-like)


..seconded

Another suggestion: more diverse ship types - what I like about Sins is that every ship type has its role in the fleet and spamming single unit is always very disadvantaged compared to diverse fleet where all ships support themselves and each specializes in different role - carriers, anti strikecraft, antistructures torpedo ships, repair/support ships, command cruisers, minesweepers, heavy cruisers, special ships.. Better than spamming single currently most powerful unit like in Armada now..

< Message edited by ShotmanMaslo -- 11/30/2009 10:41:27 PM >


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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 11/30/2009 11:23:05 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShotmanMaslo
Better than spamming single currently most powerful unit like in Armada now..


Which is? I've had good luck with balanced fleets.


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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 12/1/2009 6:24:10 AM   
Tom_Holsinger

 

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My priority fixes are to humans and bureaucracy.

the Humans

I very much disagree with Bob's version of the Humans in the introductory scenarios. While I agree it is necessary to use the Humans as the default empire for those, his saddling of the humans with major unrest penalties is counterproductive. Playing humans with such penalties is just no fun, and seriously impairs pacing.

The constant money and unrest problems in playing humans is flat out annoying, plus it dramatically inhibits players from doing anything risky, and therefore interesting. The money and unrest woes which plague human empires force a crabbed, cautious and slow style of play in the very introductory scenarios which are critical to winning players' interest in the game.

My beef here concerns marketing. The introductory scenarios are supposed to convince new players to continue playing as well as ease them over the learning curve. All new players absolutely, positively, will start turn-based space 4x games playing as the humans.

It is just deadly to use the single most frustrating to play race in the game as the vehicle to convince newbies to continue with the game. Just about any other selection of a negative to balance the humans' positives would have been better.

I repeat, this is about marketing. Good marketing means catering to the wishes and preconceptions of the customers. Customers want to have a good time. If they have a good time playing the game's introductory scenarios, they will want to play more, and will recommend the game to their friends. If they don't, they won't.

Successful marketing here requires "catering to the wishes and preconceptions of the customers", WHATEVER THOSE ARE, good bad or indifferent. Players aren't bad because they dislike being frustrated and annoyed. A game is unsuccessful if it frustrates and annoys players, particularly its initial players.

It is essential in marketing these games to not unnecessarily frustrate and annoy customers in the introductory scenarios. Armada 2526 hits them in the face with the single most frustrating and annoying race in the whole game as the race which is their first empire in the game.

That has to change, and the sooner the better. I cannot urge strongly enough that the present unrest penalty for humans be reduced or, better, entirely eliminated in the next patch. What other penalty is imposed on them, to balance their positive attributes, is far less important than that the unrest penalty be eliminated.

I also suggest a new bonus for the humans which caters to the preconceptions of this game’s market, who are almost entirely Americans and members of the British Commonwealth. I suggest humans be given a new bonus for ease in assimilating the populations of other races, including those taken by conquest. The Anglosphere justly prides itself on its unique assimilative ability relative to non-Anglo states. Play that up in this game, even if most humans on this world are more xenophobic. Wave the flag a bit.

Bureaucracy

It is insane to punish players for being successful, but that is what the present implementation of bureaucracy does. Bureaucracy goes up as empire size increases. This increased bureaucracy makes populations increasingly unhappy. Seriously unhappy populations suffer significant unrest, and angry ones revolt. The more successful a player is, the larger his empire tends to grow. The more it grows, the greater the bureaucracy level goes up, the unhappier the population gets, etc., until an empire falls apart from getting too big and successful. This is nuts.

Master of Orion III had bureaucracy increase all construction costs, including those of buildings on colonies. This was highly effective in giving smaller empires relative advantages and keeping bigger ones from easily overwhelming the game. It was wildly successful at extending duration of the “sweet spot” of relative power parity between player and AI empires during which interesting wars could be waged. Its only disadvantage was that it made it almost impossible to develop small colonies into big ones once an empire reached a given size, because the cost of constructing new buildings on new (and therefore poor) colonies was so high.

I would change the implementation of bureaucracy in Armada 2526 to be more like that in MOO3. It should not affect happiness. It should instead act as a multiplier of ship & military construction costs, but not Structure costs.


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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 12/1/2009 8:00:27 AM   
kafka

 

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very good insights, Tom, I agree, these design aspects really need some improvement, while I'm not sure what the best approach would be, as it must fit the whole system including the code basis, I think that the current implementation does simply not work for larger maps very well.
What about introducing a new tech area, political and administration, and tying expansion to the level you have currently reached, so that you can only continue to expand if you have researched the corresponding tech level reflecting the race's ability to deal with the administration and integration issues due to a growing empire. This would not add to micromanagement, you could give some races bonuses and penalties in this area too

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 12/2/2009 1:36:41 AM   
Warspite3

 

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I got a simple one, how about a couple more types of ground units? Also maybe a defensive structure strictly for ground defense such as a bunker. It could reduct the amount of damage ground forces take from bombarding ships and also give additional defense against the attacking units.

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 12/2/2009 3:06:45 AM   
Flaviusx


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Shields (which come in 2 flavors) are pretty darn effective, no need for bunkers. It's an end game tech and pricey to build and maintain, mind you...




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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 12/2/2009 10:45:58 AM   
siRkid


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How about finding stuff on planets like in GC.

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 12/2/2009 4:05:01 PM   
Iceman

 

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quote:

I would change the implementation of bureaucracy in Armada 2526 to be more like that in MOO3. It should not affect happiness. It should instead act as a multiplier of ship & military construction costs, but not Structure costs.


Ahmm, no. Late game, if you suffer a large defeat, you're screwed. You basically can't rebuild your fleet. Or any system.
Besides, it makes no sense at all.

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 12/2/2009 4:54:02 PM   
Tom_Holsinger

 

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Iceman, shifting bureaucracy from happiness to direct effect does not necessarily increase or decrease its adverse effects on production.  Unrest reduces production too, so making bureaucracy a direct affect only means that an empire won't suffer the really nasty unrest effects of buildings being trashed and maybe a colony rebelling to create a new empire.

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 12/2/2009 9:49:38 PM   
Iceman

 

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I didn't mean production, but available cash. In the game, nothing affects production (times). All that's ever affected is costs - due to the way the game is built.
By not making sense I meant that it only applies to military production, structures are not affected. That's what I was refering to, rebuilding your fleets.
I think it'd be easier to decrease the colony's money production by a certain %, which would be capped. It'd be easy to control and manipulate the cap to balance the whole thing. And it wouldn't affect costs - it'd attack the problem from the other side, money generation.

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 12/2/2009 10:06:30 PM   
Tom_Holsinger

 

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Iceman, I would use bureaucracy as a multiplier of ship costs and ship maintenance.  A bureaucracy "level" of 2.38 would result in all ship construction & maintenance costs being increased by 2.38.  I even talked about increasing ship maintenance costs above what they are now (say 30% of construction cost as opposed to 20-25%) while reducing Structure maintenance costs.  My objective here is to make ship maintenance a really staggering expense in wartime when ships are out fighting as opposed to being parked at worlds with Naval Bases.

This necessarily means that the wipeout of an empire's entire fleet will result in that empire sudddenly having most of its budget freed up to build new shlips.

Edit:

IMO players are being blindsided by the effects on maintenance expenses on their budgets, so I'd reduce Structure maintenance costs while making a really dramatic deal about ship maintenance expense. It's easier to get players' attention about One Big Thing than several small ones.

If ship maintenance expenses go up with bureaucracy, and Naval Base Structures significantly reduce maintenance expenses, even the most obtuse players will "grok" the concept of maintenance expenses real fast.

< Message edited by Tom_Holsinger -- 12/2/2009 10:27:24 PM >

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RE: Armada 2526:updates,expansions,and sequels.Tell the... - 12/3/2009 1:21:23 AM   
siRkid


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Entertainment and Security centers are very expensive to maintain. I would like to have Tec levels on these that can be researched to bring down the maintenance cost. This would be one way to increase tax revenue through research that would fit within the current game system.

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