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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save?

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allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/3/2009 11:57:04 PM

br27yank

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/11/2002
From: Schenectady NY
Status: offline

Sound off! What do you try and pull back in the new version? In WitP i would try and pull everything back that i could. New transport/Cargo rules in this version will make that a lot harder

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RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/4/2009 12:00:48 AM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
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Ships first and foremost. They'll be holding your line. Land and air are less important.

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(in reply to br27yank)

Post #: 2

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/4/2009 12:42:34 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

If you're playing against a human opponent, the situation in Malaya, the Philippines, and Java has changed dramatically. These no longer offer the "long, protracted seige against a fortress" possibilities we found and enjoyed in WitP. The Japanese can conquer these regions much more quickly than they could in WitP. Consequently, it makes sense to consider withdrawing troops and other assets whenever possible. This is particularly true with respect to Singapore. There are some good units there that you can extract and employ elsewhere. In WitP they were needed there to stop the Japanese for as long as possible, but in AE long is no longer possible.

Unless your opponent is particularly aggressive, you will have several weeks to several months to pull oil and suppiles out of Java. Keep enough ships in that area to allow you to do so.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 3

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/4/2009 2:56:00 AM

Central Blue

Posts: 695
Joined: 8/20/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FDiNola

Sound off! What do you try and pull back in the new version? In WitP i would try and pull everything back that i could. New transport/Cargo rules in this version will make that a lot harder

So far, I play against the AI. So....

Any non-combatant ship that moves fast. If you are playing the AI, there seems to be little point to keeping surface combat forces in the DEI because it will show up with carrier air first. And with the new pilot management rules, pilots if you can't get the planes out. Set the home ports of your subs to where you want them to end up after their first war time patrol -- IRL Colombo and Perth (Freemantle)

I read lots of comments here about something being "gamey" or a "Sir Robin," but I like to try to get the Canadians (at least) out of Hong Kong, Asiatic Fleet HQ and its units out of the Philippines, air and corps HQ's out of Malaysia, base units out of outlying DEI and Borneo, I airlift Dutch combat units to Java for the final stand, and I "reassign" a battalion out of Rangoon and one out of Malaysia to Addu and Diego Garcia. For Burma, I only assign the minimum to meet the garrison rules, and I am experiencing some variability on what those garrison requirements are. When in doubt, leave the Burmese brigades behind.

_____________________________

USS St. Louis firing on Guam, July 1944. The Cardinals and Browns faced each other in the World Series that year

(in reply to br27yank)

Post #: 4

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/4/2009 6:03:14 AM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

My carriers. I think too many allied players try to use them too early and suffer for it. They have low AA values, very few replacement aircraft and crews and four or five of them are not going to win a fight against an intact KB. Not to mention how deadly Japanese subs are in the first few months. If you go into July 42 with all six American carriers, with the expanded fighter units and a full load of avengers, then you can face KB and feel pretty good about giving as much as you give. Otherwise, save any ships you can and you should be OK.

My first rule is, if you are not absolutely sure where KB is then do not send your carriers in. I don't care how juicy the target.

Anything else can be replaced.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 12/4/2009 6:05:41 AM >

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(in reply to Central Blue)

Post #: 5

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/4/2009 7:57:31 AM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

TANKERS! And TANKERS! Oh, did I mention TANKERS???

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Post #: 6

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/4/2009 11:18:10 AM

vlcz

Posts: 387
Joined: 8/24/2009
From: Spain
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

TANKERS! And TANKERS! Oh, did I mention TANKERS???

I think castor troy has not put sufficient emphasis on TANKERS yet

(in reply to castor troy)

Post #: 7

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/4/2009 11:45:05 AM

Rainer79

Posts: 603
Joined: 10/31/2008
From: Austria
Status: offline

While I do agree on the tankers part don't neglect xAPs. The allies have a real shortage of lift capacity early on and contrary to the IJN allied xAKs cannot carry troops (though they can lift some equipment).

(in reply to vlcz)

Post #: 8

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/5/2009 12:42:36 AM

JeffroK

Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline

Central Blue,

You get Honkers to last long enough to load the Canadians, and hot have them lost with their ships?

Pre patch, I regularly lost HK by 8/12, post patch (1 real game only) by 10/12.

Castor wants tankers, I agree but also want them with a full load of oil(preferably) or fuel.

At least 1 fighter squadron out of Singapore (take 21 RAAF, it uses a different aircraft pool) into Burma/India.

I try to fight in the air over the PI for a few turns, based out of Manila, then get the fighters to China & the bombers to Soerbaja or Darwin.

I will assume the loss of most of the RN and USN Asiatic fleet (still the devs guarantee the loss of Force Z, about time they lost that paradigm) so try to ship in as much supply into Manila/Bataan & Singapore, even single ship convoys from small ports will help. Hit back at Invasion fleets at every chance, the IJN has a lot to escort and can leave some poorly escorted.

Dont fuss too much about losing your starting force, you will recover them tenfold.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Rainer79)

Post #: 9

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/5/2009 7:11:58 AM

Central Blue

Posts: 695
Joined: 8/20/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Central Blue,

You get Honkers to last long enough to load the Canadians, and hot have them lost with their ships?

Pre patch, I regularly lost HK by 8/12, post patch (1 real game only) by 10/12.

Castor wants tankers, I agree but also want them with a full load of oil(preferably) or fuel.

At least 1 fighter squadron out of Singapore (take 21 RAAF, it uses a different aircraft pool) into Burma/India.

I try to fight in the air over the PI for a few turns, based out of Manila, then get the fighters to China & the bombers to Soerbaja or Darwin.

I will assume the loss of most of the RN and USN Asiatic fleet (still the devs guarantee the loss of Force Z, about time they lost that paradigm) so try to ship in as much supply into Manila/Bataan & Singapore, even single ship convoys from small ports will help. Hit back at Invasion fleets at every chance, the IJN has a lot to escort and can leave some poorly escorted.

Dont fuss too much about losing your starting force, you will recover them tenfold.

I don't stick around to defend the place and the AI air often skips the port and the vessels bugging out. Of course there are about fifteen different amphibious TF's.

_____________________________

USS St. Louis firing on Guam, July 1944. The Cardinals and Browns faced each other in the World Series that year

(in reply to JeffroK)

Post #: 10

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/5/2009 7:15:54 AM

P.Hausser

Posts: 416
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline

1st and 2nd KNIL Aviation + All Euro L Class Cargo ships, + ALL TANKERS !!

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(in reply to Central Blue)

Post #: 11

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/5/2009 8:21:16 AM

JeffroK

Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Central Blue

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Central Blue,

You get Honkers to last long enough to load the Canadians, and hot have them lost with their ships?

Pre patch, I regularly lost HK by 8/12, post patch (1 real game only) by 10/12.

Castor wants tankers, I agree but also want them with a full load of oil(preferably) or fuel.

At least 1 fighter squadron out of Singapore (take 21 RAAF, it uses a different aircraft pool) into Burma/India.

I try to fight in the air over the PI for a few turns, based out of Manila, then get the fighters to China & the bombers to Soerbaja or Darwin.

I will assume the loss of most of the RN and USN Asiatic fleet (still the devs guarantee the loss of Force Z, about time they lost that paradigm) so try to ship in as much supply into Manila/Bataan & Singapore, even single ship convoys from small ports will help. Hit back at Invasion fleets at every chance, the IJN has a lot to escort and can leave some poorly escorted.

Dont fuss too much about losing your starting force, you will recover them tenfold.

I don't stick around to defend the place and the AI air often skips the port and the vessels bugging out. Of course there are about fifteen different amphibious TF's.

Never had the base skipped, any merchant ship exodus has been smashed by LBA or Surface ships.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Central Blue)

Post #: 12

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/5/2009 10:23:05 PM

Laxplayer

Posts: 204
Joined: 8/30/2006
From: San Diego
Status: offline

As everyone else has said: Ships!

I first evac ships from Manila and HK to Java, and send a couple AS to Darwin or Derby to start a sub base. Once Palembang is threatened or Kendari or Balikpapan, I begin to evac a lot from Java as well.

Also, first turn in Malaya, I send every LCU that can be strat-railed to Singapore. From there, I begin to evac via ship, every unrestricted air and ground unit I can (though air holds off until it's really time to bug out). If the Japanese player isn't fast enough, you can get almost the entire Indian III Corps out, plus the 2 aussie brigades (which I usually send to NoOz or Timor) all the unrestriced command air HQs, a few base forces, and the AA units. I usually hold off on the air HQs until the end, since I can just fly them out by transport plane to Batavia then by ship back to Colombo.

I've tried 3 separate times to blockade Burma using varying amounts of LCUs. Twice at Pegu and once in the jungle hex between the two rivers SE of Pegu. All three times got overrun by IJA in less than a week (twice AI, once PBEM). In AE, you cannot hold out for long periods of time, like you could in WitP. Therefore, everything but garrison requirements evac from Burma to bases along the Chittagong/Imphal/Ledo line.

I usually try to evac the Lark from Rabaul as well.

As the PI fall, I will keep the Nav Search air groups (catalinas, kingfishers and Stearman) in the PI as long as possible so I can keep eyes on the area. I just evac them when their base gets invaded and jump them to the nearest base that has a base force and supplies still. Since most are Asiatic Fleet command, they can base anywhere, including the DEI or NOz. There are a lot of little bases in the PI with supply and AV support that you can jump to.

Other than that, I stand and fight!

< Message edited by Laxplayer -- 12/5/2009 10:25:56 PM >

(in reply to JeffroK)

Post #: 13

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/5/2009 11:02:55 PM

John Lansford

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline

I evacuated the Cavite, Cebu and Bataan Base Forces down to Australia, along with every warship and tanker I could get my hands on. All the xAK's, if I had the time, loaded fuel or supplies to go down to Darwin as well. I also evacuated the British BF's out of Borneo and one of the Australian engineering units from Singapore. I continually loaded fuel from Surabaya and Balikpapan onto any available ship to go to Darwin, PM and Townsville.

(in reply to Laxplayer)

Post #: 14

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/6/2009 3:20:21 AM

jrcar

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Seymour, Australia
Status: offline

Land Units
Naval Support (Caviate for example)
Airsupport (brit and some Dutch and USA forces)

To Darwin/Australia is key I think. You get plenty of aircraft coming on, and you need the support (IRL these were the main elements withdrawn as well).

I move a lot of Dutch elements around via flying boat to consolodate, but actually "save" very few, i prefer to keep the PP's to release westcoast USA units, better firepower and replacements.

Naval
Agree on tankers and AP classes. Agree on not using the USN CV's in one gave I lost all 4 to a KB ambush (after trashinga convoy... not really worth it). In the AAR I've raided well, but had some bad luck and lost 1 to a sub... Overall I think you have to demonstrate a willingness to use them, without actually doing so :)

I though AE types were the critical path but you can convert a lot of ship sto AKE, these are good enough.

Air
Brit fighter and bomber replacements are few and far between. You need to fight over Malaya and Java and Burma, but you can't afford to let air units drop below 40%... once they hit 50% it is time to fall back... otherwise the Japanese will have control of the air for longer (as the Japanese you need to trash the Allied airforce and keep it trashed (this will wear down your forces too), once they mass they will get air parity and will begin to hurt you).

Cheers

Rob

(in reply to John Lansford)

Post #: 15

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/6/2009 4:27:35 PM

Central Blue

Posts: 695
Joined: 8/20/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

quote:

ORIGINAL: Central Blue

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Central Blue,

You get Honkers to last long enough to load the Canadians, and hot have them lost with their ships?

Pre patch, I regularly lost HK by 8/12, post patch (1 real game only) by 10/12.

Castor wants tankers, I agree but also want them with a full load of oil(preferably) or fuel.

At least 1 fighter squadron out of Singapore (take 21 RAAF, it uses a different aircraft pool) into Burma/India.

I try to fight in the air over the PI for a few turns, based out of Manila, then get the fighters to China & the bombers to Soerbaja or Darwin.

I will assume the loss of most of the RN and USN Asiatic fleet (still the devs guarantee the loss of Force Z, about time they lost that paradigm) so try to ship in as much supply into Manila/Bataan & Singapore, even single ship convoys from small ports will help. Hit back at Invasion fleets at every chance, the IJN has a lot to escort and can leave some poorly escorted.

Dont fuss too much about losing your starting force, you will recover them tenfold.

I don't stick around to defend the place and the AI air often skips the port and the vessels bugging out. Of course there are about fifteen different amphibious TF's.

Never had the base skipped, any merchant ship exodus has been smashed by LBA or Surface ships.

I've only had four starts, two against ironman, one against scenario two, and a test against the December 8 scenario. My results could be due to the multiplicity of Andy's scripts in action, or maybe I will try with historical on. I have never understood how that button effects the AI.

It has always been more of a let's-see-if-this-works sort of effort. They will spend the rest of the war quietly consuming supplies and upgrading, unless the Japanese decide to attack Perth.

_____________________________

USS St. Louis firing on Guam, July 1944. The Cardinals and Browns faced each other in the World Series that year

(in reply to JeffroK)

Post #: 16

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/6/2009 8:48:12 PM

Laxplayer

Posts: 204
Joined: 8/30/2006
From: San Diego
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrcar

Land Units
Naval Support (Caviate for example)
Airsupport (brit and some Dutch and USA forces)

To Darwin/Australia is key I think. You get plenty of aircraft coming on, and you need the support (IRL these were the main elements withdrawn as well).

I move a lot of Dutch elements around via flying boat to consolodate, but actually "save" very few, i prefer to keep the PP's to release westcoast USA units, better firepower and replacements.

Naval
Agree on tankers and AP classes. Agree on not using the USN CV's in one gave I lost all 4 to a KB ambush (after trashinga convoy... not really worth it). In the AAR I've raided well, but had some bad luck and lost 1 to a sub... Overall I think you have to demonstrate a willingness to use them, without actually doing so :)

I though AE types were the critical path but you can convert a lot of ship sto AKE, these are good enough.

Air
Brit fighter and bomber replacements are few and far between. You need to fight over Malaya and Java and Burma, but you can't afford to let air units drop below 40%... once they hit 50% it is time to fall back... otherwise the Japanese will have control of the air for longer (as the Japanese you need to trash the Allied airforce and keep it trashed (this will wear down your forces too), once they mass they will get air parity and will begin to hurt you).

Cheers

Rob

I agree on all of that except the CVs. Even prior to their fighter upgrades, I still use the USN CVs fairly often, usually in pairs, and sometimes alone. I'm most active with them in the DEI. And I will absolutely pick a fight with the Ryujo or Baby KB elements if I can engage with at least a pair, or preferably 3 of my CVs at a time. I find raiding in the DEI more safe than raiding in SoPac or CentPac as the Nav search coverage from all of those overlapping Dutch search planes is very tight. I see almost everything south of Mindinao as soon as it enters the Celebes Sea or starts navigating the islands near Menado/Ternate. And early on, I can usually see the invasions heading towards Palembang, Sinkawang, and Pontiniak when they are a day or two out. If I have a good idea where the KB is, or barring that, if I at least have good coverage of the sea behind the invasion force, I will try to hit that invasion with CVs or the numerous Dutch and Brit surface forces. I also try to strike that invaded base at max range of my escorts if I'm unsure of what might be lurking out of my search range.

Obviously, if my opponent brings the KB into the DEI and uses it to cover all invasions, and/or patrols deep into my waters in the DEI, I'm not going to try and contest. If that's the case, then I will likely bug out and try and use those CVs to raid more often in the SoPac when my opponent goes for Rabaul, Lae, Lunga, Canton, etc.

Overall, I find AE far less dangerous for Allied surface and CV raiders in part because of the more porous Nav Search routines, and in large part because the Betties and Nells aren't the anti-shipping gods they were in WITP. In WITP as soon as you got in Betty Range, you were going to be hit with the entire base worth of Bettys, Nells, and Zeroes. That's just not the case anymore.

(in reply to jrcar)

Post #: 17

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/6/2009 11:50:57 PM

P.Hausser

Posts: 416
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Laxplayer

I agree on all of that except the CVs. Even prior to their fighter upgrades, I still use the USN CVs fairly often, usually in pairs, and sometimes alone.

Using 2 US CV's in same TF until 44 will give you a CV Stacking Penalty.
The Amount of planes pr Allied CV Task force should not exceed 100 in 42, 150 in 43 and 200 in 44+ / If it does exceed this number for the allies hen you will suffer stacking penalty. The Japanese can have 200 pr TF from 41.

_____________________________

(in reply to Laxplayer)

Post #: 18

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/7/2009 12:58:45 AM

stldiver

Posts: 724
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: West Palm Beach, USA
Status: offline

Save yourself!!!!

Run Run Run, the Co-Prosperity sphere is invincable!!!!!

(in reply to P.Hausser)

Post #: 19

RE: allies Full Campaign What do you pull back and save? - 12/7/2009 1:36:36 PM

xj900uk

Posts: 1340
Joined: 3/22/2007
Status: offline

Well I am playing against the AI and have just startd January. My main problem seems to be the Japanese subs which are sinking all of my merchant shipping around SE Australia, PH and San Francisco. Even running escorted convoys my err escorts aren't doing that much other than dropping the odd depth charge - am loosing on average one freighter a day to them

Fortunately so far I have only lost one small tanker but it's only a matter of time...

What else can I do? Am running my convoys escorted, have lots of planes out on ASW at 1k-2k. Have even got a few sub-killer ASW TF's around PH and also SF (and so far have lost 5 DD's for 1 sub hit & not confirmed sunk!)

(in reply to stldiver)

Post #: 20

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