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RE: HOI3 - 12/1/2009 2:48:50 PM   
JudgeDredd


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Well, I used to like Paradox games, but they have even seriously tried my patience this time...but regardless of my current problems, I WOULD NOT remotely relate this game to Forge of Freedom (FoF)!

FoF worked out the box and continues to do so

I would definitely say I had more fun with FoF than with HoI2 (I can't talk about HoI3 because it refuses to run!). Hearts of Iron games are eventually enjoyable...but you should do what most sensible people do and wait till patch 4 or 5 before you buy, otherwise it will be an experience in frustration (IF you even get it to run).

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Post #: 361
RE: HOI3 - 12/2/2009 12:03:08 AM   
bairdlander2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

Would you guys say that Hearts of Iron III is more work than fun? Or is it intellectually stimulating in the way Forge of Freedom is where you can spend hours thinking about what to do on any given turn? 

It depends on the individual.If you dont like micromanagement I would not recomend it.Even though you can assign the ai to do things its not recommended.I do find it intellectually stimulating.And fun seeing how decisions,whether trades,spies or diplomacy changes things.But overall it can be daunting to a casual wargamer.Try the demo,though very buggy,it gives a sense of map size and basic gameplay.

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Post #: 362
RE: HOI3 - 12/2/2009 8:11:32 AM   
GoodGuy

 

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OooooK....

I got the sucker (acronym for Hearts of Iron III) for $7.50, and I played it for quite a few hours...
But before I could even install it, I had to reformat my harddisk, because the install-shield app couldn't be initialized, and without that -> no installations. I disabled quite a few services and used to use a custom hosts file, but there's a chance that I got some malware on a TV stream/movie on demand site, which was packed with commercials and ads, so i had to disable the hosts file... guess I'm half guilty. He he.

Ok, fresh XP install (yeahyeah Win7 next year, after the first service pack ), I launch the game and play the 1944 scenario and pick the US. I see neat animations, enhanced menues (compared to Hearts of Iron II), etc., in general: neat stuff.

But then the first crash (while i was trying to select one unit in a region with 10 units. Selection via the marquee function (and then just selecting from the list) worked well, nice detail, but if you just try to left-click to cycle through the 10 units it's like the "hitbox" (term used in First-Person Shooters [FPS]) either disappears for a while or keeps moving. If there's a pop-up window coming up right in the second when you try to select a unit, you may end up with the marquee tool on your mouse, often resulting in a crash, as the pop-up has a higher task-priority, it seems. The game crashed on me like 5 times in a row, and like 15 times since I got it.

The faders in the production menu ("plus" - "minus" buttons) are aweful too, if you try to find the hitbox you have to search and keep performing a mouse-click-fest until you hit the hitbox, eventually.

I've got a Quad AMD Phenom II X4 940 @ 3GHz, but the game is pretty choppy, even on 2nd slowest (">>") speed. The scrolling appears to warp even at normal speed, as after each hour ingame time, the amount of computations will let the game freeze for a second. If you don't take that into account, say if you try to scroll from let's say London to Paris, you may end up in Italy, just because the game will continue to scroll even though the screen freezes every "hour". So you have to scroll carefully.
I guess the game doesn't use multiple CPUs, the game should be extremely smooth if it would use them, I am pretty sure.

On faster game speeds the freezes appear more often (well according to the speed you set), which makes it hard to press the pause-button, as it can't be clicked during a freeze.

I installed patch 1.3, but I tend to think that this game may be playable and fully enjoyable around patch 1.9, seriously...lol

In the current state, I am almost tempted to say that even $7.50 is too much for such a HOI "beta version".

Whoever's done the official beta testing (erm, besides the unofficial testing done by the customers) should be tarred and feathered.

My 2 cents.


< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 12/2/2009 8:15:37 AM >


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Post #: 363
RE: HOI3 - 12/2/2009 11:46:02 AM   
JudgeDredd


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Good luck Goodguy.

I give up now. Honestly, I've spent more time trying to get HoI3 working on my computer than I have playing it, and I promise you, that is no lie!

I know it's system specific, because there are people out there using it - but the lack of presence of any devs to support the people reporting issues just smacks of "if I close my eyes and ears, they'll go away"...unfortunately for me it's a policy that has worked. I've got lots of good games. I don't need the hassle and the stress that this game has caused me over the last 2 weeks. I've uninstalled/reinstalled/downloaded it so many times I simply can't count anymore. I've also tried/retired to install/reinstall a plethora of other programs in the hope that it might work!

Sarge and Killroyishere - laugh it up. You were right. I won't give them a bloody penny in the future until the game is working....that normally means bargain bin where you win on both counts.

They can scream for money from me in the future. I'll do what "the sensible" bunch do...wait for it to hit the bins after a year of patching so I get it patched and cheap.

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Post #: 364
RE: HOI3 - 12/2/2009 2:15:07 PM   
bairdlander2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: The scrolling appears to warp even at normal speed, as after each hour ingame time, the amount of computations will let the game freeze for a second. If you don't take that into account, say if you try to scroll from let's say London to Paris, you may end up in Italy, just because the game will continue to scroll even though the screen freezes every "hour". So you have to scroll carefully.



I had the same problem,untill i lowered the scroll speed in the options menu.Also helps to remove the trees and "real water" options.My pc barely makes the minimum specs for this game and I have no problems,yet others with better pc's do.As for the production que,click where it says "need" and the amount should go to that,no need to click + or -.The forum has a tech thread if you would like to solve any other problems.But I agree that we as customers shouldnt realley have to be fixing things in game.

< Message edited by bairdlander -- 12/2/2009 2:17:18 PM >

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RE: HOI3 - 12/2/2009 3:27:18 PM   
LarryP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

My 2 cents.


Still too much.

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RE: HOI3 - 12/2/2009 6:28:20 PM   
SlickWilhelm


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Thanks for the comments, guys. I think I've got better things to do that spend what little free time I have fighting with a buggy game.


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Post #: 367
RE: HOI3 - 12/2/2009 6:46:07 PM   
LarryP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

Thanks for the comments, guys. I think I've got better things to do that spend what little free time I have fighting with a buggy game.


Me too, like fighting with a different buggy piece of software.

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Post #: 368
RE: HOI3 - 12/2/2009 8:32:33 PM   
Arctic Blast


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Paradox' response to this game has been baffling. Instead of taking months adding new fixes to massive 'uberpatches', they should be throwing fixes out the door as fast as they can. It doesn't make any sense doing things the way they are now.

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RE: HOI3 - 12/2/2009 9:09:51 PM   
Aurelian

 

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As long as their fanbase will continue to accept shoody releases, it won't change.

I expect to be able to play the game out of the box. I shouldn't have to wait for 1.05 or later.

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RE: HOI3 - 12/2/2009 9:32:18 PM   
JudgeDredd


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What is more galling to me than the shoddy mess (which I expected, though this release shocked even me) is the lack of official support. Johan seems to be running around other boards standing his corner and hitting back when I would much rather he responded to my problem (though I expect his reply would come under the guise of "It's your system"...a comment made all to often nowadays and, whilst true in a lot of cases, regardless of the system specifics, details should be passed between developer and user in order to get the damn thing working they purchased in the first place.

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Post #: 371
RE: HOI3 - 12/7/2009 6:06:48 PM   
Joe D.


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I read the promo info for HoI3 and -- like EU3 -- the game has become less historical.

The rationale was that trying to script actual WW II events causes the AI to act bizzare, so apparently Paradox has decided to let the whole game become a "what if" scenario for better playability.

I'm all for playability, but what's the point of an ahistorical sim?

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RE: HOI3 - 12/7/2009 8:24:48 PM   
GShock


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I have had terrible experiences with some Paradox titles... Victoria (and revolutions expansion) is very inaccurate, a lot bugged, an incredibly slow game and has totally been abandoned by the developers. There's a good mod but it can't beat the problems the engine shares with EUIII, sadly.

EUIII itself is most certainly the game where the worst AI has been helped with the most cheating. No matter how hard you struggle as Great Britain you can never outperform even Ireland with trade/production... with good or bad ruler, with good or bad advisor... no way. Funny enough you start the game with domains in France and you can barely field 20.000 men without going bankrupt while France fields about 80.000 and can never stop sending fresh troops to the front. Meanwhile to siege a region you need an year or so and attrition kills more than the frenchmen do. Unbelievably unfair.
The best mod out there is magna mundi... it's so heavily scripted (and needless to say it can't fix the problems with the engine) that the computer freezes very often and the animations go sluggish even at slow levels of time compression. Cherry on the cake, since last update, when I play EUIII my computer turns off by itself (I presume a problem with overheating) and that says it all considering i play COD4 with full detail without problems.

Wanna talk about East India Company? I wanted to buy it but I've been told it's so bugged it's almost unplayable... some players, after a few patches still can't play at all after buying it and it's pretty bad.

Don't know about HOI but I don't think I'm ever going to buy a paradox game again... but @ the top side, they acquired Sword of the Stars publishing after lighthouse interactive went broke (well actually the company owning lighthouse went broke) and that's a TREMENDOUS hit (IIRC it's the same way they acquired East India Company). I haven't seen Armada 2526 but i don't really think it can beat sots (yea the AI here cheats big time too but if with good scenario settings, if you play at your best it's a wonderful game).

I ultimately agree with Dredd, nothing can beat Forge of Freedom. The expansion pack will be a big boom on the market. It's so good I am so terribly sad the team went to Crown of Glory... maybe I'm not sad, just impatient!


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RE: HOI3 - 12/7/2009 11:14:40 PM   
Widell


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
... what's the point of an ahistorical sim?


Ah! The good old historical versus less historical (or ahistorical) question! Will be fun to watch this discussion unfold and see if there are any new arguments put forward

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Post #: 374
RE: HOI3 - 12/8/2009 6:42:36 AM   
D.Ilse


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I shelved mine..for the duration til the modders start tinkering...even then I don't know if there is a real "fix" for the game, to make as playable as HOI2..I wished I had gone for Sins of a Solar Empire instead of HOI3, but I am more of a WWII gamer, than Sci-Fi. Although I did like Empire's STARS when it came out back, back, back in the day. But today noone knows this game even existed it seems.

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RE: HOI3 - 12/8/2009 8:22:48 AM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Widell

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
... what's the point of an ahistorical sim?


Ah! The good old historical versus less historical (or ahistorical) question! Will be fun to watch this discussion unfold and see if there are any new arguments put forward

I agree...there is plenty of room for ahistorical and historical games.

Historical allows you very little (if any) room for manoeuvre - what exactly is the point? I understand why people want historical and don't mind historical games out there...but I want to see how I can do as Germany. I want to see if the choices I make afford me victory. What's the point in playing it if I know Germany is going to lose?

I prefer ahistorical over historical anyday...the outcome is not certain and I get to do my bit! And the market can support both...so I never understood the "What's the point" argument. There are plenty of historical games out there to keep budding history buffs happy...and there are plenty of games out there to keep us "what ifs" happy...everyone's a winner!

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Post #: 376
RE: HOI3 - 12/8/2009 1:11:45 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Widell

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
... what's the point of an ahistorical sim?


Ah! The good old historical versus less historical (or ahistorical) question! Will be fun to watch this discussion unfold and see if there are any new arguments put forward

I agree...there is plenty of room for ahistorical and historical games.

Historical allows you very little (if any) room for manoeuvre - what exactly is the point? I understand why people want historical and don't mind historical games out there...but I want to see how I can do as Germany. I want to see if the choices I make afford me victory. What's the point in playing it if I know Germany is going to lose?

I prefer ahistorical over historical anyday...the outcome is not certain and I get to do my bit! And the market can support both...so I never understood the "What's the point" argument. There are plenty of historical games out there to keep budding history buffs happy...and there are plenty of games out there to keep us "what ifs" happy...everyone's a winner!


After updating the latest patch, I recently fired-up HoI2 and Hint #100 appeared on my screen: HoI is a game w/outcomes always in doubt, not a computer simulation.

If so, then why even bother packaging historical scenarios?

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RE: HOI3 - 12/8/2009 1:56:39 PM   
Jevhaddah


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I have always thought that the best part of wargaming on a computer is the 'what-if' scenarios.

If yoo cannot affect the outcome of a battle or campaign by employing yer own tactics and making yer own choices, then whats the point? For that kind of wargaming, I go down the war-reading route, as a game that does not allow any room to experiment is just a glorified book IMHO.

Cheers

Jev

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RE: HOI3 - 12/8/2009 2:40:18 PM   
LarryP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: D.Ilse

I shelved mine..for the duration til the modders start tinkering...even then I don't know if there is a real "fix" for the game, to make as playable as HOI2..I wished I had gone for Sins of a Solar Empire instead of HOI3, but I am more of a WWII gamer, than Sci-Fi. Although I did like Empire's STARS when it came out back, back, back in the day. But today noone knows this game even existed it seems.


I don't care for Sins Of A Solar Empire any better than HoI3. It's not full of bugs though.

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RE: HOI3 - 12/8/2009 2:51:34 PM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Widell

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
... what's the point of an ahistorical sim?


Ah! The good old historical versus less historical (or ahistorical) question! Will be fun to watch this discussion unfold and see if there are any new arguments put forward

I agree...there is plenty of room for ahistorical and historical games.

Historical allows you very little (if any) room for manoeuvre - what exactly is the point? I understand why people want historical and don't mind historical games out there...but I want to see how I can do as Germany. I want to see if the choices I make afford me victory. What's the point in playing it if I know Germany is going to lose?

I prefer ahistorical over historical anyday...the outcome is not certain and I get to do my bit! And the market can support both...so I never understood the "What's the point" argument. There are plenty of historical games out there to keep budding history buffs happy...and there are plenty of games out there to keep us "what ifs" happy...everyone's a winner!


After updating the latest patch, I recently fired-up HoI2 and Hint #100 appeared on my screen: HoI is a game w/outcomes always in doubt, not a computer simulation.

If so, then why even bother packaging historical scenarios?

So the user can start at that historical point and say "Right...how can I change what happens from here on?"...that's all.

There is no real logic to the complaint that it's ahistorical. There is a market for both. The complaint that it's ahistorical is only really a valid complaint if you were sold it as an historical game...otherwise it is what it is.

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RE: HOI3 - 12/8/2009 3:27:31 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Widell

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
... what's the point of an ahistorical sim?


Ah! The good old historical versus less historical (or ahistorical) question! Will be fun to watch this discussion unfold and see if there are any new arguments put forward

I agree...there is plenty of room for ahistorical and historical games.

Historical allows you very little (if any) room for manoeuvre - what exactly is the point? I understand why people want historical and don't mind historical games out there...but I want to see how I can do as Germany. I want to see if the choices I make afford me victory. What's the point in playing it if I know Germany is going to lose? ...


Not that I would deliberately desire to lose from any side, but not winning as the Axis reinforces my belief in both history and humanity; many times I play from a losing position just to see how long I can hold out.

BTW, when HoI was first released, it was way too easy for National Socialism to conquer the world, so Paradox attenuated the game w/events like "Neils Bohr escapes".

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RE: HOI3 - 12/8/2009 3:32:24 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

... There is no real logic to the complaint that it's ahistorical. There is a market for both. The complaint that it's ahistorical is only really a valid complaint if you were sold it as an historical game...otherwise it is what it is.


It wouldnt be the first time marketing and R&D worked at cross-purposes:
HoI is a game, but HttR is a sim.
Or is just semantics?

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RE: HOI3 - 12/9/2009 12:19:06 PM   
Widell


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
It wouldnt be the first time marketing and R&D worked at cross-purposes:
HoI is a game, but HttR is a sim.
Or is just semantics?


I think it's mostly semantics, but IMHO, and this may be where many developers fail in their communication: The games/sims/apps/whatever we discuss here are modelling complex events with different degrees of player input after which a "chunk of (game)time" passes and the player gets to provide new input. The chunk of time can be anything from RTS to however long a turn is in a turn based game. What happens within the chunk is a simulation (not a game or anything else!) of event based on the current situation and the player input + a bunch of rules, calculations and a fair degree of randomness. Now, this computer stuff that goes on in the chunk can be more of less complicated and more or less transparent to the player, but it's "within the chunk" that I very much believe the quality of the game/sim/whatever is created. If each turn (yes, even FPS are based on turns, only very, very short ones ) generate a result that the player can accept as reasonable given the flavour of the game/sim/whatever, that's a winning concept! The Panther Games (COTA and HTTR for example) excel in this in my opinion. Then, there are other factors like comparing historical setup versus made up, or even fantasy setups, the length of the turn, truly turnbased to real-time pausible, to FPS, the scale of the operations, the implementation of supply, logistics and reinforcements, production or no production, diplomacy or no diplomacy. Each of these factors may or may not cater to the player's preferences.

HOI to HOI3 has many specific design solutions implemented that make it different, and that means some people (like myself)like it, and other think it pretty much s*cks. However, the issue with HOI3 was/is the unacceptable degree to which the product seems to have been quality assured before release, and that is something completely different from the design choices and the philosophy behind the product. The whole thing has disappointed me a lot, as I am a firm fan of the HOI series, but <paste whatever rant you want about things not working here>.....

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RE: HOI3 - 12/9/2009 1:45:54 PM   
GoodGuy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Widell

....chunk of time can be anything from RTS to however long a turn is in a turn based game. What happens within the chunk is a simulation (not a game or anything else!) of event based on the current situation and the player input + a bunch of rules, calculations and a fair degree of randomness. Now, this computer stuff that goes on in the chunk can be more of less complicated and more or less transparent to the player, but it's "within the chunk" that I very much believe the quality of the game/sim/whatever is created. If each turn (yes, even FPS are based on turns, only very, very short ones )....


I wouldn't consider RTS or FPS to be based on turns. Action and reaction in real-time games shouldn't be confused with turns. In particular, if the player is free to move (his character[FPS] or his units[RTS]) anywhere at any time, then you can't refer to such an environment as a turn-based environment. Such an environment isn't a "real-time simultanous turn"-thingy either. Turn-based games carry restrictions and rules real-time simulations don't have. For instance, the fact that FPS single-player games incorporate tons of scripts, or that a certain amount of tiny mouse-movements ("chunks" ;P) are needed, in order to trigger your character's movements or actions, should not mislead you over their real-time core.

You mentioned COTA and HTTR, but although they might seem to be turn-based games under the hood, as scenarios unfold in 1-minute increments, they are not. Imo, this scale had been picked in order to make the scenario flow/progress more convenient for the player, as the player would not see much progress/movement if 1-second-increments would be used. Example: With maps of up to 40km x 50km, say a tank unit would just move a few meters per second only, infantry even less. So even if you would zoom in, movement would be barely visible (if at all).
Whatsoever, such games aren't turn-based, as even the number-crunching under their hoods, means the AI, will constantly assess and reassess the current situation, in an attempt to simulate real battle environments.... in real-time , and not just when the player hits the "done" or "ready" button.

In turn, in RTS, even such "slow" movement speeds won't matter, as the scope of these games is way smaller: You usually command single platoons, or just even individual tanks, so that on this level the movement speed is still acceptable for the player.

In general, it is harder to develop an AI for real-time (or "pausable continuous time") games, as the AI has less time to act and react to the player's actions. This also involves more code, and it may even also involve more sophisticated routines if compared to turn-based games, as the computations have to be done continuously, and immediately after battle conditions have changed (eg. loss of main objective, unexpected losses, etc). And that's where many real-time fail, as in these cases their developers either either not have the resources or the knowledge to implement a decent AI.

A good example for AI-shortcomings in a real-time game would be "Theater of War 2". While this game features rather realistic physics (as it computes the travel path and penetration values of say individual bullets or tank rounds in real time, you often see APC rounds being deflected into the sky) and while it is anything than a RTS game, its AI heavily depends on scripts and its actions (keyword: klutz soldiers) create one or another good laugh (which can be frustrating too, though :P).

In recent RTS games, even in multiplayer skirmishes (where scripts - unlike in SP - are less useful) you'll still find routines that look like scripts, eg. the infamous "AT-gun advance" in "Company of Heros".
While that game's AI does carry some sophisticated and independent routines that will make the squads go for as many flags as possible, continuously, the main behaviour in skirmishes will be, besides producing other units, that it keeps spilling out AT-gun units, making it almost impossible for the player to attack with heavy armor (unless you collect them and try to overwhelm the enemy). So current RTS games rather seem to go for eye-candy and impressive (scripted) SP mission design, than for superb AI routines.
Anyway, RTS, FPS and real-time wargames aren't turn-based games, imho.

In turn, the AI in turn-based games usually has plenty of time to compute movement, possible threats etc., there are even some games which do the number-crunching while the player moves his units, the time needed for all these computations just comes down to the capabilities of the CPU. So, in my books, turn-based AIs can allow themselfs a luxury that real-time (sim)games can't afford. That's why I think that a decent AI in a continuous play game is worth a million more than a superb turn-based AI.

Because of the differences (where I outlined some above), you can't put RTS, FPS, real-time games and turn-based games in one box and label it "turn-based", or "turn-based chunk container". It doesn't work like that, sorry.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 12/9/2009 3:43:22 PM >


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Post #: 384
RE: HOI3 - 12/9/2009 5:39:36 PM   
Ron

 

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Back to HoI :)

I have been following the Arsenal of Democracy Dev diaries and this is what HoI III should have been I think. Forget the 3D engine, *really* lackluster AI and Army Organization, which could have been great if it actually worked, of Paradox's attempt; this version looks to expand and improve HoI II to its full potential. Of course, it could be all smoke and mirrors, I don't know yet, but they sure have fleshed it out and are promising a much more challenging AI - something all Paradox games are in need of it seems. It is supposed to be released Dec. 17th.





< Message edited by Ron -- 12/9/2009 5:41:21 PM >

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RE: HOI3 - 12/9/2009 8:18:02 PM   
Widell


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy
I wouldn't consider RTS or FPS to be based on turns. Action and reaction in real-time games shouldn't be confused with turns.


Semantics! There it is! I wasn't trying to argue for FPS being turn based, but only that there is code in there somewhere that takes an input, compares to a state, and produce an output, aka finite state machine(s) of some kind. You are most certainly right in all your statements, I was making an argument on a higher level of abstraction and not on the execution of the code itself

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RE: HOI3 - 12/9/2009 9:20:21 PM   
GoodGuy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Widell


Semantics! There it is! I wasn't trying to argue for FPS being turn based, but only that there is code in there somewhere that takes an input, compares to a state, and produce an output, aka finite state machine(s) of some kind. You are most certainly right in all your statements, I was making an argument on a higher level of abstraction and not on the execution of the code itself


Yes, I know what you had in mind there, I am very well able to abstract there. But with your statement, it's not necessarily about abstracting things, but about watching things with a magnifying glass and I don't think that this is necessary, so I didn't "zoom in":

Say you play a multiplayer FPS in a LAN, where the clients will process data as you described, they will process tiny chunks, with the server CPU processing the data serially ordered. The only bottleneck would be the LAN cable/conn, as that would be the only part of this set where it takes the "chunks" 5-15 milliseconds (which is still pretty fast) to travel to the server. But the clients still process the local user input within nanoseconds, just like in a single-player game, let alone the code execution (billions of operations per seconds) you want to leave out , hence - with such almost unbelievable short time frames - I'm still referring to it as being real-time, besides the other indicators I described above. With today's multi-core processors it's even more valid, as with these CPUs chunks are effectively being processed parallel.


< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 12/9/2009 9:23:32 PM >

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Post #: 387
RE: HOI3 - 12/10/2009 5:39:00 AM   
D.Ilse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

quote:

ORIGINAL: D.Ilse

I shelved mine..for the duration til the modders start tinkering...even then I don't know if there is a real "fix" for the game, to make as playable as HOI2..I wished I had gone for Sins of a Solar Empire instead of HOI3, but I am more of a WWII gamer, than Sci-Fi. Although I did like Empire's STARS when it came out back, back, back in the day. But today noone knows this game even existed it seems.


I don't care for Sins Of A Solar Empire any better than HoI3. It's not full of bugs though.


I figured it was just a better looking Galactic Civilizations II, so that's why I passed on Sin.

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RE: HOI3 - 12/10/2009 11:01:56 AM   
Widell


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I agree, and you are of course right. I knew I was kind of stretching the arguments with that comparison

EDIT: This was of course a response to GoodGuy in our increasingly OT discussion about semantics

< Message edited by Widell -- 12/10/2009 11:03:45 AM >


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RE: HOI3 - 12/10/2009 11:31:03 AM   
GoodGuy

 

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Skål!

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"Aw Nuts"
General Anthony McAuliffe
December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne

---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
8th of August, 2006

(in reply to Widell)
Post #: 390
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