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Any Persons interested in a large scale MBX

 
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Any Persons interested in a large scale MBX - 12/6/2009 5:18:48 AM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		If there is anyone interested in a large scale MBX which will game A PRC attempt to seize ROC, let me know. Naval warfare will be head-to-head H3, ground action will be gamed using POA-2.
The game's anticipated phase 1 will begin in middle January.
You may either message on this thread, or PM me here.
Thank you.
Post #: 1
RE: Any Persons interested in a large scale MBX - 12/6/2009 5:37:49 AM   
cchiang

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 4/1/2009
Status: offline 		I want to say I'm interested... but what MBX?

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 2
RE: Any Persons interested in a large scale MBX - 12/6/2009 5:46:41 AM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		Do you mean, what is an MBX?
If so, MBX-Map Board Exercise..basically a giant, umpired wargame..in this case will be a "joint exercise" covering 90-120 real days..gamed out will probably take several months, so players must be available for the first half of 2010..although with enough players, we may have extras if someone cannot stay the entire campaign.

< Message edited by navwarcol -- 12/6/2009 5:47:11 AM >

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Post #: 3
RE: Any Persons interested in a large scale MBX - 12/6/2009 3:47:01 PM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		Clarification:
It is NOT necessary that players have both games mentioned. People who are interested in a certain command, be it naval or air, will be able to use H3. Interaction between H3 and POA2 will be managed by an umpiring crew.If players do have BOTH games, and are interested in umpiring, also let me know. The umpiring crew will be hard at work on setup before the game begins in January. We will be making adjustments to the system, and setting up the rules for interaction, etc.
In January , phase 1 will be essentially played "by committee" with the players on each side, making several choices, which will, when all put together, affect their oob and setup for phase 2, the actual game, several days later.

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 4
Question - 12/6/2009 9:21:47 PM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline 		How will the Harpoon resolution work?

Do you set up mini-scenarios and then play them in solitaire mode? Or, do you set up an MP situation in ANW and then have two (or more) umpires play it through to resolution?

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Post #: 5
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 12:22:32 AM   
FransKoenz


Posts: 255
Joined: 6/3/2005
Status: offline 		Some more questions:

Which Harpoon version will be used for the MBX? I mean, the PlayersDB only recommend version 3.9.4. So, it does not /support include the newest features, such like Boarding/Take-Over missions.

Are there minimum requirements for internet connectons within Multi-player modus? Experience learns that, par example, a ISDN-connection significant slows down the game when others play with faster [cable, ADSL] connection. I do not want to embarrass people with slower connections, but due to all calculations within the game, a fast internet connection is imo a must.

Another thing which is confusing............ A group of players? Or each player is responsible for it'sw own tactical decisions within a sesion he plays alone?

I'm looking forward to join such a MBX-contest, but like to know more of the inns and outs.

Thanks,
Frans





< Message edited by Taitennek -- 12/7/2009 12:34:30 AM >

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 6
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 1:39:54 AM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		We (umpires) will game through the non contact portions, following the players' orders. For example, you command CVBG..you will issue "standing orders" for each day of ops. First game day, as an example 10.4.2012..the player may, as an example, order the carrier to patrol in Zone B..Emcon conditions, etc..all will be ordered. During that 1 day that the player is issuing orders for, perhaps, nothing will occur in that particular zone, in which case, HIS turn will advance to the next day, UNLESS he also issued secondary orders "patrol zone A, VFA1 to assist in SEAD zone C" etc... essentially, any zones which that command wishes to have a part, or is able to have a part taking into consideration ranges, etc..will be available. The umpires will game out ALL days of the conflict. At the instant of contact, units will be "backtracked" to , depending upon the situation, anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hrs before the contact, the respective players will be notified, and will conduct the battle.
As for the interaction with POA2, and thusly between air/naval units and ground..that is still being tweaked a bit, but in the end, it will closely resemble the way the Global Thunder MBX worked several years ago with TACOPS and H3.

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 7
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 1:52:54 AM   
FransKoenz


Posts: 255
Joined: 6/3/2005
Status: offline 		Okay, I understand basicly the way the game will be directed by the umpires and I love playing with strict orders, but some questions still remain......
What Harpoon version is going to be used for this MBX?

Harpoon3.6?
Harpoon ANW [3.94, or 3.10]?
Harpoon ANW MP?
Do I play against the AI? Do I play against another player?
Another question would be: Which Database is involved?

Cheers,
Frans

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Post #: 8
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 1:55:19 AM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		Harpoon v 3.9.4 will be used. It is not really my first choice, but it is the one most likely to be owned by all players. I am unsure yet which db will be used, but it will probably be a hybrid db that myself and some others put together over several years. Issues such as boarding, etc would not be part of the equation, at this time, anyway. From what I see, their success rate is limited to 50%..and that is just not what we are looking for in this.
I also would recommend decent connections for the multiplayer. There is a chance that some smaller ground actions may be played out via chat, using the paper H4 ground combat rules, as for a small action, they may be more speedy than loading up POA2.
As for the group of players..each side will consist of one overall commander, and then various other commanders..ie...overall admiral CINC-PACFLT for USN, followed by command levels down to individual subs, and either individual surface combatants, or battlegroup commanders of several surface units. The phase 1, will posit several *strategic* level decisions, that will affect the setup for phase 2's actual game. Phase 1, will be a committee type of action, where the two sides (actually, 3 sides, US, Taiwan, PRC) will decide on several courses of action, each of which will have good, and bad, implications for the gaming phase.
As an idea of what I mean,
*spoiler alert*
One of the choices which will be offered to the PRC side, is whether or not to go after the oil rich Spratleys...the choice to do this, will help their overall strength in some ways I wont go into here, but it will also raise the threat level in theater, which will result in a choice for the US side of whether or not to react, and of course, reaction means more US troops than normal will already be in the area...and, as you can see, it creates a back and forth dynamic, the end result of which, will have a tremendous bearing on the combat situation of phase 2.
Once we are in phase 2..the top commander tells the subordinates essentially what the plan is, hopefully with some input from them, but it is the subordinates who will be actually gaming the battles out themselves...
hope this explains a bit how it works.

(in reply to FransKoenz)
Post #: 9
Question - 12/7/2009 2:06:24 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: navwarcol

Harpoon v 3.9.4 will be used. It is not really my first choice, but it is the one most likely to be owned by all players. I am unsure yet which db will be used, but it will probably be a hybrid db that myself and some others put together over several years. Issues such as boarding, etc would not be part of the equation, at this time, anyway. From what I see, their success rate is limited to 50%..and that is just not what we are looking for in this.

Don't worry about the boarding feature. It is a game function and *if* it works when v3.10 is released, it will work for everyone, regardless of Database used.

I can see why you would want to limit input to only Umpires since ANW MP is limited to only player sides. Have you thought about the possibility of running an ANW MP server for the umpires and then having other players watching the action as observers? (I don't know if observers count against the 6 player maximum limit.) The observers could then issue verbal orders for the Umpires to enact.

A VNC remote viewer link-up to your ANW MP server might be possible if the 6 player maximum limitation is problematic. That way, many more participants might be able to log in and watch the action unfold.

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Post #: 10
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 2:10:10 AM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		That's a very good idea that I am looking at and thinking about , most of the day today so far haha

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 11
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 2:18:33 AM   
FransKoenz


Posts: 255
Joined: 6/3/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for explanation.

One more question about involved sides.......

The East Asian hemisphere is complex. Japan and the Koreas are there as well.
Recent discoveries of oil in the Ryukyu Islands par example. the PRC is already surveying the area for oil and gas just outside territorial waters of Okinawa. Then there are the disputed Senkaku Islands [Taiwan, PRC, and Japan claim these territories]........
Chinese aspirations might go further as just annexxing the Spratley Islands.
These are just thoughts....... anyway.

Thanks,
Frans.


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Post #: 12
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 2:34:57 AM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		Yes, there will be opportunity for the Chinese to press into several areas...without giving too much away at this point, the basic gamble by PRC will be how 'greedy' to be..each military adventure decided upon by them in phase 1, strengthens them for the war in phase 2, but, each also strengthens aspects of their enemy, and could result in a multi-nation alliance facing of against them, rather than only Taiwan with a small US naval force if they do none of the possible expansions. So, it will be a matter of them playing the odds.
One other thing, other than the example I gave, the Chinese will not know, how their choices will affect phase 2..other than some simple common sense(if they attack Japan, they should realize it is possible/likely that will draw massive Japanese and US forces, as SEATO becomes involved, etc.)

(in reply to FransKoenz)
Post #: 13
Question - 12/7/2009 2:40:58 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: navwarcol

Yes, there will be opportunity for the Chinese to press into several areas...without giving too much away at this point, the basic gamble by PRC will be how 'greedy' to be..each military adventure decided upon by them in phase 1, strengthens them for the war in phase 2, but, each also strengthens aspects of their enemy, and could result in a multi-nation alliance facing of against them, rather than only Taiwan with a small US naval force if they do none of the possible expansions. So, it will be a matter of them playing the odds.

Will the PRC be allowed to use economic warfare vs. the US? i.e. Since much of the American debt is held by the PRC, can they call in their loans?

Also, there's been considerable talk of tactics such as cyberwarfare and ASAT weaponry. Will aspects like this be included within the MBX? (not that I'm advocating them, either. A straight up fight is fine with me.)

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Post #: 14
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 2:43:59 AM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		I am getting close to giving too much away, but I will say this.. "Anything the PRC may have ability to do in real life, they will have in the MBX" but, as I said, there are positives AND negatives, to each choice, most of which, will not be realized, until they actually happen.

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 15
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 2:46:23 AM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		There will be ability to gather intel and help to surmise the odds of a particular positive or negative result to the above mentioned actions...but just as real world intel, it is a game of "what are the chances of..." NOT a guaranteed science.

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 16
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 2:48:13 AM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		One other point regarding phase 1... It will consist of the 18 months before phase 2, jammed into about a 10 day game period. So, time will not be infinite.

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 17
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 2:54:18 AM   
FransKoenz


Posts: 255
Joined: 6/3/2005
Status: offline 		I can hardly wait to join the MBX........
Full scale war in the East/South Cina Sea, including Herman's thoughts about Cyberwars and economic warfare..... sounds great!

You can count me in, I have all the time of the world to play.

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Post #: 18
Question - 12/7/2009 3:48:06 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline 		How much "staff work" is expected?

I was involved in the opening stages of Bill Jennings "War in 2012" MBX.  With no disrespect intended for Bill, I found much more staff/research work than I expected or enjoyed.  Someone might ask about a weapon, but then we would have to do our own research to find out if it was deployed, how many, etc. and then present an argument for its use. 

I am not the kind of person who enjoys staff work.  I want to play the game and fight the battle, but do not want to spend much time looking up weapons characteristics, availability, etc.  For example, if I were the PRC commander and wanted to launch a cyber-attack on the US, I would like to ask the umpires:

1) is it possible
2) what attack options can I select from

I don't want them to hand me a DOS manual and ask me how I would conduct the attack.  I don't mind a straight yes or no answer.  Just tell me instead of pointing me towards the internet to learn for myself.  Others might enjoy that level of minutiae, but it's not for me.

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Post #: 19
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 3:53:30 AM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		For various reasons, most of the "staff work" has already been done. This theater was my specialty before I was forced to change that due to real world constraints. There will be some staff work, but most of it will be done between now and phase 1..and then, a VERY small amount done in the couple of days between phase 1 and phase 2, as the results of choices made in phase 1, are input into the setup.

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 20
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 7:44:21 PM   
cchiang

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 4/1/2009
Status: offline 		Came show one explain on how to play MBX? I'm a newbie on this.
If it is a board game then why do we need Harpoon 3.9.4?
Is there a manual?
I would really like to join the game, but need to know how much work is involved : )

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 21
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 7:54:19 PM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		cchiang,
Thank you for your interest. Essentially, it is going to be a very large scale wargame. Portions will be played using Harpoon 3 (most naval/air portions) portions will be played using POA 2 (most ground actions) and portions will be played using the paper rules for Harpoon 4(some naval/air/ground interaction, possibly some small unit ground actions)
It will be conducted as 2 phases..phase 1 will begin approx early January 2010..phase 1 requires no Harpoon, or any other game, although general knowledge of the way these games work, will help. Phase 1 will primarily deal with strategic choices made by PRC, USA, Taiwan, and to a lesser extent, some other powers in the region and the world, as well as the reactions of said powers, to the choices that are made. It will be 'gamed' primarily via email and chat, and will consolidate 18 months of strategic decisions and setup, into about 10-12 game days.
Phase 2 will be the actual conflict, in which the basic setup as it is set now, will be tweaked to allow for the choices players made or did not make, in phase 1. Phase 2, will be played in approximately 1 day "turns" followed by 1 day of planning the next days turns..depending upon choices made in phase 1, phase 2 will game out a conflict over between 90-120 days ( thus, between 180-240 days of real time). Having one of the games(harpoon 3 or POA 2) is HIGHLY recommended, however, there will be places available for those with knowledge of game issues or of real world tactics, who do not have, themselves, the game.
Hope this helps some.
~Ron

(in reply to cchiang)
Post #: 22
RE: Question - 12/7/2009 8:05:48 PM   
cchiang

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 4/1/2009
Status: offline 		Thank you : ) I'm In.

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 23
RE: Question - 12/10/2009 10:16:05 PM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		Bumping this up, recruitment is not reaching required levels. Still needing 2+ BLUFOR (USA/ROC/JAP/etc) and still needing 5+ OPFOR (PRC/DPRK?)
I cannot promise the players much, but I can promise two things.
1) You will have fun
2)You will not die if you lose, unlike reality.

(in reply to cchiang)
Post #: 24
RE: Question - 12/11/2009 12:07:59 PM   
T-28A


Posts: 835
Joined: 11/1/2002
From: Ukraine
Status: offline 		Hi,
Where could I get enlisted for OPFOR?

< Message edited by T-28A -- 12/11/2009 12:09:00 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: Question - 12/11/2009 12:25:21 PM   
bongotastic

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 7/28/2005
Status: offline 		Hi, I'd be interested. PM me (I already PM'd you on that), I know quite a few other people who may be interested in a MBX as well. I ran a 2 years long MBX and participated in 2, one as CinC. They are great fun both the play and to run!

< Message edited by bongotastic -- 12/11/2009 12:27:58 PM >

(in reply to navwarcol)
Post #: 26
RE: Question - 12/12/2009 2:51:51 PM   
SteveLohr

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 7/8/2002
From: Oklahoma City
Status: offline 		I'd be interested.

(in reply to bongotastic)
Post #: 27
RE: Question - 12/12/2009 4:28:25 PM   
navwarcol

 

Posts: 637
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline 		Steve, PM on the way.

(in reply to SteveLohr)
Post #: 28
RE: Question - 12/14/2009 12:51:49 AM   
JohnO


Posts: 268
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		Count me in. US side if possably. Going to have to run Harpoon and get the rust off

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Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

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Post #: 29
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