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RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 2:10:18 AM   
Jevhaddah


Posts: 626
Joined: 11/24/2005
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hey Judge, yoo can get a Revel Air Brush for around £32 it works of tins of compressed air or compressor.

http://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/revell-standard-class-airbrush/?utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=PriceComparison&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping

There are cheaper ones available too around £18.00

Cheers

Jev



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Post #: 31
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 8:18:56 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I'm thinking about going 1:48 scale.


Well thanks to this thread and a trip to the toy store to buy a cousin some Lego for a birthday, I'm now building the Tamiya 1:48 Me262 A-1a!

This is one beautifully crafted kit.

There was a rumor that in 1950 the Israeli's procured a couple of these badged as the Czech built S92. It's said these slipped through with the last shipment of crated S199's (the Czech built ME109G) before the US closed the supply line down.

An Israeli ME262 was reported by the Egyptians to have crashed in Israeli territory. As the story goes this either did happen or the Egyptians were using the tale to pressure the UK into supplying Meteors. To this day, the IAF denies it ever occurred.

Was this in fact Israel's first jet fighter? Well, I'm giving it a whirl!

Tamiya 1:48 ME262 A-1a

< Message edited by Adam Parker -- 10/27/2009 10:49:33 AM >

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 32
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 8:36:20 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Thx Jev....I have no idea what to look for or do with this stuff. Makes me wary buying on the internet.

Call me thick...but how do they work? No electricity required? It's powered off a tin of compressed air?

Also, one thing that immediately springs to mind...being Scottish and hating waste, is the wasted paint? I mean, transferring it to the jar, using what you need then transferring it back...got to be a fair bit of waste there. I just see paint wasting away!

Then there's the cleaning everytime....mmm...sounds less attractive to me now before.

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 33
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 8:43:08 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		That does look like a nice detailed kit Adam.

I saw some very nice detailed ones at 1:48 scale the other day in the shops.

Thing is, if I go up to 1:48, my paintwork is going to look even rougher. it looks tired enough in the 1:72 scale.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 34
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 9:04:13 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Call me thick...but how do they work? No electricity required? It's powered off a tin of compressed air?


LOL here's what I've been through before I bought a compressor!

The airbrush is usually held like a pen with the forefinger over the top controlling the trigger button. The air flow is regulated by a wheel at the back and the paint flow/spray size by a nozzle at the front.

The paint usually flows via a jar connected by a pipe from the jar lid at the bottom or you pour the medium into a reservoir at the top.

Then you connect the thing by a thin hose to an air source. You can buy tins of compressed air that last about half a model. You can use a car tyre which holds a lot more air! Or you can use a compressor that plugs into the power. Yep, I've done all three.

By far the compressor is the best way to go as the air is always on tap but for every now and then work, cans do just as well - but they do run out of puff near their end.

The biggest issue with airbrushing I found was its use of thinners in the cleaning cycle between each color. You need to wash the jar out or use another, then run a jar full of a little thinner through the brush to clean the innards and then take the nozzle off to wash it by hand.

So the calculus is this - you get a better paint job for sure but it's a lot more work than simply cleaning a paint brush! Then you have to consider a spray area and remember that some really expert modellers create masterpieces by hand held brush alone!

For air brush units, you can't go past Badger. This baby is mine.




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< Message edited by Adam Parker -- 10/27/2009 9:15:45 AM >

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 35
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 9:13:35 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline 		How the Badger works.




PS: Ammendment - my rusty brain just recalled that the twist valve at the rear actually also pushes a needle inside the airbrush forward and back from the nozzle aperture. This needle is the continuation of the rod protruding from the back that can be seen in the pic.

This needle (shaped like a dart head) has a finely honed point and it needs to be protected at all costs as the paint sprays along it through the front creating the desired diameter and accuracy of the paint spread.

After each color spray session the rod is screwed out from the rear, pulled away and wiped clean with some thinner and a cloth as part of the cleaning process too.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Adam Parker -- 10/27/2009 10:46:41 AM >

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 36
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 9:33:35 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		yep...thinking double the work load, double the paint required (through loss transferring between containers) and triple the paint cleaner.

In order for my model making to go un-abaited, it needs to be "invisible" to the wife...ie, not impact on her. At the moment, with a small show box to hold my paints, brushes etc, and 1:71 scale models, I'm getting away with it!

I can see cost of going up a scale along with air brushing could push her over the edge!

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 37
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 10:35:43 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline 		Well, there is another and cheaper alternative and it's the way I'm going this time as I want to keep a small fottprint with my wife too:

Tamiya Aircraft Spray Cans

They're generously sized and coupled with some newspaper, a can of primer and some sealer they should look great for large area coats. I'm hoping to let some clever masking and a sable brush do the rest

I think your paint jobs by hand are just awesome in the way you're getting the paint to cover Judge. Love the yellow on the cowling - another challenging color to spread.




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Post #: 38
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 12:13:33 PM   
htuna


Posts: 591
Joined: 1/19/2009
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline 		Airbrush rules!!!.. Use Acrylic paints, then cleanup is a breeze... Judge, it's worth the finish and the satisfaction after the paint job completes! Getting a compressor at some point is definately better than cans (cans are expensive!)

Adam.. from what I've heard when it came out, that 262 kit is a gem!

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 39
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 12:43:36 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks Adam Parker for the info on airbrushes. Like Judge, I've been toying with the airbrush idea and your posts answered many questions I had.
And thank you Judge Dread for renewing my interest in scale modelling.

(in reply to htuna)
Post #: 40
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 4:25:46 PM   
Jevhaddah


Posts: 626
Joined: 11/24/2005
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		As cmurphy625 says use acrylics, then clean out the air brush with water I use artists acrylics t £1.75 a pop, I sprayed a 6'x 4' wargaming table using one pot of paint. I also dilute my paint roughly 50:50 with water if a acrylic or thinners if enamel. I am currently spraying the 1:250 scale model of the Yamato using this method.

I now use a compressor and wish I had thought about using a car tyre

For small 1:72 scale aircraft models I use a brush, anything bigger and it's airbrush time.

Cheers

Jev

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Post #: 41
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 6:51:37 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline 		Hey JD, how about one of these, m8

Airfix Spit with a difference

(in reply to Jevhaddah)
Post #: 42
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 7:54:48 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

How the Badger works.




PS: Ammendment - my rusty brain just recalled that the twist valve at the rear actually also pushes a needle inside the airbrush forward and back from the nozzle aperture. This needle is the continuation of the rod protruding from the back that can be seen in the pic.

This needle (shaped like a dart head) has a finely honed point and it needs to be protected at all costs as the paint sprays along it through the front creating the desired diameter and accuracy of the paint spread.

After each color spray session the rod is screwed out from the rear, pulled away and wiped clean with some thinner and a cloth as part of the cleaning process too.


I used to be able to get a nice 1/8" trail of paint with the Badger. The feathered edges that look so good for camo schemes come with a price and that's the realtive hassel of the air compressor and air brush.




_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 43
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/27/2009 9:03:15 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Hey JD, how about one of these, m8

Airfix Spit with a difference

I think that's on tonight isn't it Hertston? I've got it set to record

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 44
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/29/2009 3:05:06 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Judge

for the airbrush, you got to remember, you use a lot less paint while painting, so you are not using that much, to be wasting it

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Post #: 45
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 10/29/2009 9:54:05 PM   
htuna


Posts: 591
Joined: 1/19/2009
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline 		I think Badger and Paasche both make good beginner brushes.. not too expensive.. I actually have two Paasche and love them both (if I was still building )..
Stay away from those Testor Aztek plastci POS.. they suck!

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 46
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 11/2/2009 10:22:07 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline 		I noticed the other day that I my paint collection was missing some crucial red and yellow needed for touching up some cockpit details and rather than taking a trip into the city, I ventured to my local suburban hobby store on the chance that as they sell plenty of miniatures, I might stumble across some hobby supplies too.

What a surprise I came across, in the form of the Games Workshop range of acrylic paints. These tubs are 12ml which is smaller than the regular-sized Tamiya jar of 23ml and slightly bigger than their 10ml but what blew me away is just how smoothly these colors spread with a brush.

Unlike the Tamiya range (or at least the range when it was first released) these are fully water soluable meaning no thinners required - just add water and away you go. The effect is just like using good ol' Humbrol enamels and turps!

I took a look at a Warhammer army in a display case painted with these beauties and I was sold! Whilst I've got a huge supply of Tamiya paints, I'm thinking of getting the airbrush out and testing these GW paints with just water thinning alone - something I've never done before. If indeed water is all that is needed to clean out the gun afterwards, then I'll be a full convert for sure.

The cost savings regardless of the convenience will be worth the experiment for one tub of Tamiya acrylic thinner would equate to 5 pots of GW paint! That's a crazy thing not to check out.

As for the Tamiya Me 262 I'm building it's turning out to be an interesting time. The detail in the cockpit is superb and though the 1:48 pilot figure had some seam marks, after filing these away I've been given one of the easiest and most detailed miniature figures I've ever had the pleasure to paint. I'm moving onto the aircraft body next and the build sequence becomes curious as the front landing gear strut needs to be fitted before closing the hull halves together. This seems to be necessary not just to secure the strut but because it in turn, mounts into a metal landing gear bay that also doubles as a weight to keep the aircraft standing on it's tripod on completion! An interesting design of a kit for sure.

Long way to go yet but I'm loving the re-found relaxation again!




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(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 47
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 11/2/2009 10:44:39 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		My next project is a Tamiya - a P51D - my daughters favourite WWII aircraft, so she can have this one.

I agree with the detail on the pilot...also the kit looks detailed without being "fiddly"...not many parts in it, but enought o enjoy making it without making it an art in frustration

I'd put money on mine not looking like this

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 48
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 11/2/2009 3:06:42 PM   
Joshuatree

 

Posts: 507
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		Superbly looking eh?


(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 49
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 11/2/2009 4:41:48 PM   
jackx

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 7/8/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		GW paints are nice, but a bit inconsistent in quality. I've re-activated (with water, an old brush and patience) totally dried-up pots and got good results, I've had new pots that you could barely paint anything with because the paint simply wouldn't take... also, out of 5 cans of their white undercoat, I had two cans of white paint-repellant.

That aside, they're not bad, and they're readily available (though it might require going to the local nerd store) in most places, unlike other manufacturers, such as Vallejo.

If you're looking to airbrush, Vallejo has a "model air" range that's supposedly tailored for airbrush use (smaller pigments, so less clogging), never used that, though...


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all false belief
blinded by morality
there shall be ... no peace

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Post #: 50
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 11/2/2009 6:00:54 PM   
Doggie


Posts: 3244
Joined: 9/19/2001
From: Under the porch
Status: offline 		A natural metal finish is not an ideal project for beginners. It's much harder to achieve than it looks. The surface has to be flawless as every scratch will pop out. A primer coat of flat black gives the silver some depth. A flat white primer is a prerequisite for anything yellow, and it's recommended for red as well.

There is a pen called a "sharpie" which ideal for drawing canopy frames. You just draw them on. This only works with metallic silver and flat black. The other colors are not nearly as opaque. There's a product called Pactra trim tape which comes in assorted sizes and colors which makes quick, neat work of complex canopy frames like those on your A6M-2 or SBD.


For accenting panels with different shades of metllic silver, low tack tape is a neccessity. ordinary masking tape will often pull up silver even after it cures for several days. Blue painters tape foound in hardware stores is ideal for masking delicate finishes.

For a beginner, naval aircraft with flat gull gray or dark blue finishes are the easiest to achieve. For camo, spray the lightest color first. Dark green goes over earth brown or ocean grey better than the other way round for your Spitfire.

Things under wings are best assembled before painting. Trying to cement an external tank or missile to a pylon after it's painted doesn't work so well as the glue sticks to the paint and not the structure. Super glue is great stuff, as long as you remember that it bonds instantly to anything you don't want it to stick to but takes a while to set any where you want it.

For a final touch, children's water soluable tempra paint is great for washes. Brush flat black or grey thinned with water and a little dishwashing liquid to reduce beading over a metallic or grey finish and it will settle into the panel lines and accent them. Let it dry thoroughly and then wipe it off with a tissue moistened with windex. This will take off the tempra paint without damaging the finish. Use silver or dingy grey on dark finishes. Experimenting with washes and light sanding on models with raised panel lines brings out details and makes things like the hull on your U-boat look more realistic. Something called Rust all does just what it says it does.

If you can find any, type writer correction tape can be placed over an intrument panel and rubbed to make the dials pop out in white. Liquid paper is a good substitute for filler putty, and easier to apply.

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Post #: 51
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 11/2/2009 9:28:52 PM   
invernomuto


Posts: 986
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline 		Outstanding model, thanks for sharing!

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Post #: 52
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 11/3/2009 7:33:13 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		I used to use this stuff that thinned out the decals after getting them set on the surface you put some of this thinner stuff over the deal and it just made the decal sink into the substrate. All the details from underneath the decal came through. Really neat look.

For weathering I often used artists pastels and ground them down a bit into dust with coarse sandpaper and then dry brushed them onto the surface. Worked great for rust and mud effect on vehicles and exhaust/gun plume effect on aircraft.


_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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Post #: 53
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 11/4/2009 2:43:15 AM   
planner 3

 

Posts: 616
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		Jeffery: Great for model railroad cars also, thanks for the memories.

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Post #: 54
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 12/12/2009 3:17:50 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Didn't see the point in starting a new thread so resurrected this one!

My latest model...P51 Mustang by Tamiya. Quality of the model was impressive. Easy to put together and everything "fitted". This is a 1:48 scale where my others were 1:72












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Post #: 55
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 12/12/2009 3:19:01 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		And some more...











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Post #: 56
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 12/12/2009 3:23:39 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline 		Very Nice!
Rick

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 57
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 12/12/2009 3:33:09 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Last ones...











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Post #: 58
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 12/12/2009 3:36:27 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I'm trying real hard to support the company that sells models...the one last shop where I live...but it's proving difficult...he doesn't have a tremendous amount of stock in, very little in the way of Airfix models...I am hoping to get a Stuka done, but I haven't ever seen one in his store apart from the big buggers...1:24 scale or something...about £40!

I could always ask him if he can get one in...I'm sure he'd rather that than me just go online

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 59
RE: Just started taking this up again.... - 12/12/2009 4:31:34 PM   
Joshuatree

 

Posts: 507
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		Nicely done Judge.
And I agree with you about supporting your local shop, I'd rather pay a few Euro's extra so you support a local shop where you can *talk* about the things you do for a hobby (whatever hobby that may be, be it modelling or fishing) than go online.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 60
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