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Screenshots/Info - 12/16/2009 7:46:33 PM   
latosusi

 

Posts: 327
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: London/Kuopio
Status: offline 		Please post some info and/or screenshots of finnish units
Post #: 1
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/16/2009 8:28:22 PM   
Northern Star


Posts: 1881
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline 		Finnish units are the units with blue background.

Situation at the beginning of 1942:




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 2
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/16/2009 8:28:50 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
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Status: offline 		An alpha screen shot of the Finnish troops at the start of the campaign.



Edit - Damn she beat me to it!


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RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/16/2009 8:29:23 PM   
Northern Star


Posts: 1881
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline 		And at the beginning of 1943 campaign:





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 4
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 12:22:26 AM   
Endsieg

 

Posts: 92
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From: North Atlantic Treaty Organization
Status: offline 		So....regardless of scenario,...may the Finns attack at will? Across the Svir towards Tikhvin for instance?
Can the Axis player send German units (armor) into Finnland to "help" the Finns attack the Sovs? (apparently a cheesey tactic used in WIR).
Or are Finn attacks restricted by hard (political) code?

well OK, i see the Finn "no attack line". Is that written in rock?

< Message edited by Endsieg -- 12/17/2009 12:26:30 AM >

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RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 12:32:20 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

well OK, i see the Finn "no attack line". Is that written in rock?


It is written in the game code. If you manage to capture Leningrad, Finnish army will be able to cross that line.

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RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 2:05:21 AM   
Pford

 

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quote:

It is written in the game code. If you manage to capture Leningrad, Finnish army will be able to cross that line.


In that case, what's the purpose of the Soviets garrisoning the frontier? Are their units frozen- pun unintended- as well?

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Post #: 7
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 2:06:23 AM   
Joel Billings


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Status: offline 		They can move past the line, just can't attack.

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RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 2:45:33 AM   
Ola Berli


Posts: 133
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline 		This is no problem, this time Leningrad will fall to the Panzers!

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RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 3:09:55 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
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From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Well it's easier said than than done. You have to take both greater Leningrad (red arrow) and north Leningrad (yellow arrow) which is across a major river in order to activate the Finns to cross the line. Heres a ss...




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 10
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 4:06:46 AM   
Ola Berli


Posts: 133
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline 		Yes I see it. Everything who slow down a human german player is in my opinion good. It was and should not be easy to conquer this big country.

I am very impressed with the detail in this game!

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Post #: 11
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 6:34:11 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Big really is an understatment of its size, vast may be closer. Heres an ss of an area that the Axis may never set foot on, however the detail is still there...The map is cool huh...




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 12
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 7:29:41 AM   
Kesselring

 

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Status: offline 		lol, now the Finnish is helpless now, what a stupid setting. Is that another "historical" setting that can simplify the programming? I further suggest using the "region of operation" concept in Kharkov to make the game more historical. This game is so historical now, so why not make a flash showing the history rather than a game? Except the graphics, there is no important improvement reported so far compared with WIR, but many degradations are presented. 

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Post #: 13
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 9:12:26 AM   
Sentinel Six

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kesselring

lol, now the Finnish is helpless now, what a stupid setting. Is that another "historical" setting that can simplify the programming? I further suggest using the "region of operation" concept in Kharkov to make the game more historical. This game is so historical now, so why not make a flash showing the history rather than a game? Except the graphics, there is no important improvement reported so far compared with WIR, but many degradations are presented. 


This is historically accurate and rightly so in my opinion. Axis minor nations were not all mindless puppet states, especially Finland. If the Germans had have taken Leningrad then the Finns would have played a more active role.

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RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 9:15:50 AM   
Sentinel Six

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

Big really is an understatment of its size, vast may be closer. Heres an ss of an area that the Axis may never set foot on, however the detail is still there...The map is cool huh...





The map is cool but as you say a vast area which the Axis player is unlikely to ever set foot on, yet the Karelia/Arctic/Murmansk section of the front is ommitted.

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Post #: 15
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 10:50:26 AM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

Well it's easier said than than done. You have to take both greater Leningrad (red arrow) and north Leningrad (yellow arrow) which is across a major river in order to activate the Finns to cross the line. Heres a ss...


Leningrad's the only trigger?

If the Germans occupy most of the map, but not northern Leningrad, the Finns will still remain frozen in place?

What is to keep the Soviet player from creating a basically unbeatable pile of units on the northern side of the Neva, leaving the border with Finland more or less undefended, knowing that the Finns can't attack anyway?

Keep in mind that fewer triggers automatically means a higher chance of the rule being exploited by players. Games with fixed areas of operation, such as SSG's Kharkov:DotD have shown that players will quickly find strategies to use fixed AoO's to their advantage.

quote:

The map is cool but as you say a vast area which the Axis player is unlikely to ever set foot on, yet the Karelia/Arctic/Murmansk section of the front is ommitted.


That's something I'm not happy with either, but the developers want to do this their way so as long as the system works, I can live with no combat in the far north, completely ahistorical as it might be.

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Post #: 16
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 11:23:21 AM   
Sentinel Six

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

quote:

The map is cool but as you say a vast area which the Axis player is unlikely to ever set foot on, yet the Karelia/Arctic/Murmansk section of the front is ommitted.


That's something I'm not happy with either, but the developers want to do this their way so as long as the system works, I can live with no combat in the far north, completely ahistorical as it might be.


That's a pity. I understand that there would be a huge addition to the map etc, but one of the big points in the development of the game is historical accuracy and although operations along this section of the front were at a fairly low level the region was strategically important for both sides and could have become a major theatre if one of the combatants had decided to force the issue. The loss of Murmansk would have been a major blow to the Soviets (loss of major lend lease entry point, loss of Winter achorage for Northern Fleet), likewise the Kolosjoki Nickel plant near Petsamo would have been a very severe loss to the German war effort. This plant alone was capable of producing 32% of all European Nickel and Germany was always short of some of the more exotic metals (Tungsten, Chromium etc) for producing high grade steel alloys.

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Post #: 17
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 1:23:15 PM   
Sentinel Six

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 9/3/2009
Status: offline 		If Leningrad gets cut off is it possible to supply it across a frozen Lake Ladoga during the Winter?

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Post #: 18
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 2:02:11 PM   
Helpless


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quote:

If Leningrad gets cut off is it possible to supply it across a frozen Lake Ladoga during the Winter?


Yes.

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Post #: 19
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 2:28:37 PM   
Sentinel Six

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

If Leningrad gets cut off is it possible to supply it across a frozen Lake Ladoga during the Winter?


Yes.


How does a unit being out of supply effect it? Does the "ice road" allow supply at a full rate or reduced rate?

Thanks for all the answers by the way.

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Post #: 20
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 2:52:05 PM   
Helpless


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quote:

How does a unit being out of supply effect it? Does the "ice road" allow supply at a full rate or reduced rate?


Unit out of supply is affected in many ways - reduced firepower, morale, increased fatigue, equipment failure rates and many others.

There is some certain supply modifier when supplied through the frozen water hex. However Ladoga is treated as separate sea zone to allow supplies to be traced between ports when it's not frozen as well, and these depend on the shipping capacity being accumulated.

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Post #: 21
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 3:09:00 PM   
Sentinel Six

 

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Excellent, thanks again.

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Post #: 22
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 3:38:05 PM   
Zort

 

Posts: 684
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		If the Finns are frozen are the soviets along that front frozen too? Is there a Soviet garrison requirement along the Finn border? If not then the Sov player will abandon that front. Understand the historical freezing of the Finns but then there needs to be a similiar historical handicap on the sovs.

How are air units handled? ie area combat/support or can the player pick which attacks get air support?


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Post #: 23
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 3:52:37 PM   
thackaray


Posts: 50
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

They can move past the line, just can't attack.


This is about the Soviet units that can move past the No Attack line, but not attack ? What is that point of that rule, once the Finnish units have pushed the Soviet back to this line, early in the campaign?

I'm echoing what other people have said, what is stop a Soviet player like me, playing ahistorical, abandoning this line altogether knowing that the Finnish forces cannot attack and relocating forces which should be defending this line, to oppose the German attack advance from the west?

Also, from the German point of view at what point is Lenningrad cut off from over land/water/ice road supply? Is this when German forces, reach the No Attack line on the east shores of Lake Lagoda ?

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Post #: 24
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 4:09:10 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zort

...How are air units handled? ie area combat/support or can the player pick which attacks get air support?



Air is a work in progress so things may change. You can manually air recon and/or have the AI do it for you. You can manually bomb airfields and/or have the AI do it for you. You can bomb enemy units or enemy controlled cities. The AI will handle air support for attacks and defense. You have an Air Doctrine screen where you can set the priority for how your airforce will conduct operations and respond on defense. These are some of the features off the top of my head as it stands now.

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Post #: 25
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 7:27:32 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		After turn 3, the Soviets are not frozen in the north. If they leave the Svir River line open, then the Finns may move past the no attack area. They can't attack, but they can move, and move ZOC to ZOC, so the Soviets have to garrison the line or the Finns can infiltrate. Since supply over Lake Ladoga is important for Leningrad if it is cut off (and via the ports especially when the lake is not frozen), it would not be wise for the Soviets to allow the Finns to move past the Svir river. The Soviets don't have to occupy the line with strong units, but they do need to put some units up there.

As for Murmansk, we decided to forego adding another huge number of hexes to what is already a huge map. The battles in the north were a stalemate and we assume this to be the case. It's not a big loss in our opinion, and the time and resources saved allowed us to do more in other areas.

This game is not War in Russia. Aside from the fact that Gary is the designer of the game, and it's an East Front game covering 41 to 45, nothing else is similar. This game has many things that are much better than WiR, others that are just different, and some things that are handled differently or abstracted. It should stand or fall on its own, although it is quite the compliment to Gary that his prior East Front games are considered the standard to be exceeded.


< Message edited by Joel Billings -- 12/17/2009 7:28:25 PM >

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Post #: 26
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 10:11:47 PM   
latosusi

 

Posts: 327
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: London/Kuopio
Status: offline 		Heh, thanx but could someone please post some screenshots of units. Like what equipment they have etc

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Post #: 27
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/17/2009 10:19:13 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Remember, this an alpha shot and everything is subject to change:



Edit - Not sure why Totenkopf has 0 MP's in this shot. Checking...

... it's considered frozen on turn 1.


< Message edited by elmo3 -- 12/18/2009 12:08:12 AM >

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Post #: 28
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/18/2009 9:28:59 AM   
latosusi

 

Posts: 327
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From: London/Kuopio
Status: offline 		That is german, not finnish unit ;)

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Post #: 29
RE: Screenshots/Info - 12/18/2009 11:30:10 AM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: latosusi

That is german, not finnish unit ;)


Yes it is, but you didn't say "Finnish" unit, you said unit. I don't get a chance to read every post in every thread so it looked like you were just asking for a shot of the equipment for any unit and that is the one I happened to pick. Anyway here you go:



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We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 30
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